Is the 991 GT3 the greatest 911 and Sportscar ever made?
Discussion
sidicks said:
Irrational to think you can have a credible opinion without having driven the car in question!
Possibly not as irrational as you thinking that someone will not be able to draw a valid opinion from the spec of the car. Have said this before - a car where your every input as a driver is first processed through a digital interface before the car reacts to that input is never going to appeal to everyone. E-diff/4 wheel steer/electric steering/pdk/torque vectoring - these cannot be turned off and all will contribute significantly to the 'digitalness' of the 991 gt3. One does not need to drive the 991 gt3 to realise it will be a far less analogue car than the 997 gt3. Way of the world these days though. The motoring press have a tendency to hail the newest latest model as the best thing since sliced bread so I would take their claims with a big pinch of salt. I'm sure the 991 gt3 will be a brilliant car, Porsche GT cars always are. However, the best car Porsche has ever made or even the best 911? Not a chance IMO.
At the moment I am VERY happy with my Gen 1 GT3 that I have owned for the last 5 years. I have had a GT3 in various modes since 2004 and I have no desires to move to a car with a PDK box and a host of electronic aids, but that’s just me.
How good the New Gt3 is going to be will surely take some time. I am sure the performance and handling will be superb, but will it be as much FUN. It all seems a bit too much GTR, again, nice cars, but not my choice having driven one for a day.
New car, New engine, New gearbox. Porsche haven’t been doing too well in the last few years with the likes of Cylinder bore wear, IMS bearings, Centre lock wheels, ceramic brakes etc. But I guess the public can test the new engine before it goes in the Cup cars.
As we know, they always help the customer out when things go wrong !!
Its odd, I have always looked forward to getting my hands on the next GT3, but this time I don’t feel that way at all.
How good the New Gt3 is going to be will surely take some time. I am sure the performance and handling will be superb, but will it be as much FUN. It all seems a bit too much GTR, again, nice cars, but not my choice having driven one for a day.
New car, New engine, New gearbox. Porsche haven’t been doing too well in the last few years with the likes of Cylinder bore wear, IMS bearings, Centre lock wheels, ceramic brakes etc. But I guess the public can test the new engine before it goes in the Cup cars.
As we know, they always help the customer out when things go wrong !!
Its odd, I have always looked forward to getting my hands on the next GT3, but this time I don’t feel that way at all.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Once again, I'm not disagreeing with subjective opinions - it's perfectly reasonable to suggest that, given the nature of the car, it won't be a good driver's car for him, albeit it would have more more credibility if he'd actually have driven it and experienced how the car actually feels.My initial reading was that he was making a blanket statement that the car was NOT a good driver's car for anyone.
Apologies if that was not the case.
No, not the best Sportscar ever made – in my opinion.
It does seem to split and polarise opinion like few other cars though (a little like the Nissan R35 GT-R perhaps). Page after page of Fanboys and Haters!
I think for some it could be the greatest – and clearly for others the work of the devil…it all comes down to what you want in a car and how you intend to use it.
No doubt it is a technical and engineering tour de force, but some want something more ‘challenging’ or ‘engaging’ to use in a different way.
Vive la Différence
It does seem to split and polarise opinion like few other cars though (a little like the Nissan R35 GT-R perhaps). Page after page of Fanboys and Haters!
I think for some it could be the greatest – and clearly for others the work of the devil…it all comes down to what you want in a car and how you intend to use it.
No doubt it is a technical and engineering tour de force, but some want something more ‘challenging’ or ‘engaging’ to use in a different way.
Vive la Différence
I see people are having a go at Steve Rance for his comments but they are no different from all the sycophantic fawning over the new GT3 by those who have bought one and are awaiting delivery.
Neither of you have driven the car so which one of you is right?
I dare say Steve's opinion is more 'grounded in reality' than others as he knows what he wants from a DRIVERS car whereas I can't help but get the feeling that the posters vociferously defending the 991 GT3 are those that just want the latest and greatest toy that the journalists say is a good car.
I have no doubt that the new 991 GT3 will be an amazing car, it's gearshifts will be lightning quick and it will rev to the heavens and it even sounds good but as for the 'greatest 911 and sports car ever made' I think we should all reserve judgement.
Neither of you have driven the car so which one of you is right?
I dare say Steve's opinion is more 'grounded in reality' than others as he knows what he wants from a DRIVERS car whereas I can't help but get the feeling that the posters vociferously defending the 991 GT3 are those that just want the latest and greatest toy that the journalists say is a good car.
I have no doubt that the new 991 GT3 will be an amazing car, it's gearshifts will be lightning quick and it will rev to the heavens and it even sounds good but as for the 'greatest 911 and sports car ever made' I think we should all reserve judgement.
V8KSN said:
I see people are having a go at Steve Rance for his comments but they are no different from all the sycophantic fawning over the new GT3 by those who have bought one and are awaiting delivery.
Neither of you have driven the car so which one of you is right?
I've not stated a personal opinion about the 991 GT3 precisely because I haven't driven it. Plenty of motoring writers who have driven it and who focus on "driver's cars" have made very favourable comments about the car.Neither of you have driven the car so which one of you is right?
V8KSN said:
I dare say Steve's opinion is more 'grounded in reality' than others as he knows what he wants from a DRIVERS car whereas I can't help but get the feeling that the posters vociferously defending the 991 GT3 are those that just want the latest and greatest toy that the journalists say is a good car.
You are confusing "vociferously defending" with "simply pointing out the universal (?) opinions of those who have actually driven the car".I know whose views are most valid....
V8KSN said:
I
I have no doubt that the new 991 GT3 will be an amazing car, it's gearshifts will be lightning quick and it will rev to the heavens and it even sounds good but as for the 'greatest 911 and sports car ever made' I think we should all reserve judgement.
100% agree. Because that's a hugely subjective issue and will mean different things to different people at different times.I have no doubt that the new 991 GT3 will be an amazing car, it's gearshifts will be lightning quick and it will rev to the heavens and it even sounds good but as for the 'greatest 911 and sports car ever made' I think we should all reserve judgement.
This reminds of the Ferrari 599 GTO. A car that, I had made up my mind, was a f**king computer game before I drove it.
Was my prematurely-formed-conclusion accurate when I DID drive it?
Err...
YES.
(dunno about this 991 GT3 though. It's still irritating me that it's badged "GT3" but the racing engine and direct link with track has gone - kinda like the Ferrari 599 GTO. A car that, I had made up my mind........... ).
ETA: I don't trust the motoring press at all. Even the much-hailed EVO. They hoon the cars over world-class roads for a few days and come to their conclusions there. CRAP. Your 991 GT3 has to be fun and engaging at 40mph heading on the A40 out of London... not just the f**king Stelvio Pass. And that's why my 5pence look like they're heading towards older cars which are fun to drive slowly.
Was my prematurely-formed-conclusion accurate when I DID drive it?
Err...
YES.
(dunno about this 991 GT3 though. It's still irritating me that it's badged "GT3" but the racing engine and direct link with track has gone - kinda like the Ferrari 599 GTO. A car that, I had made up my mind........... ).
ETA: I don't trust the motoring press at all. Even the much-hailed EVO. They hoon the cars over world-class roads for a few days and come to their conclusions there. CRAP. Your 991 GT3 has to be fun and engaging at 40mph heading on the A40 out of London... not just the f**king Stelvio Pass. And that's why my 5pence look like they're heading towards older cars which are fun to drive slowly.
Edited by Murcielago_Boy on Thursday 21st November 11:07
Cmoose - go out and by a bicycle. It is intensely immediate and mechanical. You'll love it!
Obviously deciding as to the "greatest" anything is, primarily, a matter of individual taste and judgment.
The new GT3 has (we are told by respectable journalists) a lot of characteristics that make it stand head and shoulders above its contemporary rivals, most of which are as "computerised" and "aided" as it is. In that respect, it may well be the greatest sports car of its generation, insofar as such things are capable of quasi-objective assessment.
I agree completely with cmoose, though, that "sports car" means so many different things to different people that it is probably not fair and sensible to say that any car that has such divisive attributes (electronic steering, etc) is the greatest overall.
I quite like the idea of saying that the 911 is the greatest and leaving it to everyone to pick their favourite flavour - some will want something closer to a bicycle and others something closer to a spaceship. You pays your money...
Obviously deciding as to the "greatest" anything is, primarily, a matter of individual taste and judgment.
The new GT3 has (we are told by respectable journalists) a lot of characteristics that make it stand head and shoulders above its contemporary rivals, most of which are as "computerised" and "aided" as it is. In that respect, it may well be the greatest sports car of its generation, insofar as such things are capable of quasi-objective assessment.
I agree completely with cmoose, though, that "sports car" means so many different things to different people that it is probably not fair and sensible to say that any car that has such divisive attributes (electronic steering, etc) is the greatest overall.
I quite like the idea of saying that the 911 is the greatest and leaving it to everyone to pick their favourite flavour - some will want something closer to a bicycle and others something closer to a spaceship. You pays your money...
anonymous said:
[redacted]
It writers are going to come out and say this stuff, their name is going up in lights.
If it is truly the best 911 then it becomes one of the best cars ever, car's don't get better with age, just peoples perceptions.
If there is a legend being born over in Stuttgart, the occasion needs to be marked right here on PH.
First point is its interesting you refer to it as a sports cars and NOT a supercar because thats how I view it. Not quite up there with Ferrari, Lamborghini or McLaren.
Secondly on paper it looks very impressive and the reviews are all good however most have a BUT in them. Undoubtedly the technology has moved on and improved the car in many areas but there is still the question mark over whether some of the FUN has been lost.
The best sports car for me is the one which is the most FUN, not necessarily the best car objectively on paper.
IMHO that car right now is the Lamborghini LP570-4 Performante. You will not find a car on this planet that is more FUN, or sound better. Who cares if it is 0.00001 slower round some race trap or weighs 100 Kg more than the coupe - its just such a riot you constantly drive around as if you were in a gurning competition or auditioning for the role of the joker in the next batman movie.
And you won't find 250 of them in this country. The last and best of a legend
Secondly on paper it looks very impressive and the reviews are all good however most have a BUT in them. Undoubtedly the technology has moved on and improved the car in many areas but there is still the question mark over whether some of the FUN has been lost.
The best sports car for me is the one which is the most FUN, not necessarily the best car objectively on paper.
IMHO that car right now is the Lamborghini LP570-4 Performante. You will not find a car on this planet that is more FUN, or sound better. Who cares if it is 0.00001 slower round some race trap or weighs 100 Kg more than the coupe - its just such a riot you constantly drive around as if you were in a gurning competition or auditioning for the role of the joker in the next batman movie.
And you won't find 250 of them in this country. The last and best of a legend
GRBF430F1 said:
First point is its interesting you refer to it as a sports cars and NOT a supercar because thats how I view it. Not quite up there with Ferrari, Lamborghini or McLaren.
Secondly on paper it looks very impressive and the reviews are all good however most have a BUT in them. Undoubtedly the technology has moved on and improved the car in many areas but there is still the question mark over whether some of the FUN has been lost.
The best sports car for me is the one which is the most FUN, not necessarily the best car objectively on paper.
IMHO that car right now is the Lamborghini LP570-4 Performante. You will not find a car on this planet that is more FUN, or sound better. Who cares if it is 0.00001 slower round some race trap or weighs 100 Kg more than the coupe - its just such a riot you constantly drive around as if you were in a gurning competition or auditioning for the role of the joker in the next batman movie.
And you won't find 250 of them in this country. The last and best of a legend
I agree up to a point but the LP570 (as fantasic as it is) still suffers from an average gearbox, that type of tech has come & gone. Manual for purists & DSG for the tech hungry (or lazy!)...Secondly on paper it looks very impressive and the reviews are all good however most have a BUT in them. Undoubtedly the technology has moved on and improved the car in many areas but there is still the question mark over whether some of the FUN has been lost.
The best sports car for me is the one which is the most FUN, not necessarily the best car objectively on paper.
IMHO that car right now is the Lamborghini LP570-4 Performante. You will not find a car on this planet that is more FUN, or sound better. Who cares if it is 0.00001 slower round some race trap or weighs 100 Kg more than the coupe - its just such a riot you constantly drive around as if you were in a gurning competition or auditioning for the role of the joker in the next batman movie.
And you won't find 250 of them in this country. The last and best of a legend
I'd have a Countach over an LP570 any day of the week!
ferdi p said:
I agree up to a point but the LP570 (as fantasic as it is) still suffers from an average gearbox, that type of tech has come & gone. Manual for purists & DSG for the tech hungry (or lazy!)...
I'd have a Countach over an LP570 any day of the week!
Fair point on the Countach and they are only going up in value if you can even find one.I'd have a Countach over an LP570 any day of the week!
I'm not really into classics, although most of the cars I've owned previously turn out to be one.
Up until now I've always gone with the latest and best stuff but I think we have got to a point where the new cars are just too good. The DSG dual clutch boxes are too fast and smooth and you have to be doing warp speed to extract a sense of FUN.
Personally I think supercars benefit from the paddle shift and find the E-gear to be the halfway house between a manual and the DSG type. You get a quick shift but still with the sense of changing gear.
As Chris Harris said in his Superleggera video he was expecting the E-gear gearbox to be ancient when compared with the latest 458 and McLaren boxes BUT it WASN'T. It certainly suits the aggressive nature of the car and the Gallardo is growing old disgracefully, just how Tiff Needall likes it
How do you define "Best"?
Should you use a weighted compensatory decision-making model incorporating both qualitative & quantitative criteria?
The criteria weightings will be as subjective as the assessed criteria scores themselves.
These Decision Making Models seldom reflect the organic nature of human decision-making which often involves cognitive associations stretching way back into old memories & unstated emotional connections e.g. liking something because you associate it with someone dear to you who had an association with that object, place, activity or aspiration.
Bottom Line: It's a non-question from a consumer behaviour perspective - it's deeply personal.
The best 911 TO you is the one you like the most. Which isn't the same as asking what is the best 911 FOR you - that's a question of useage, practicality & circumstance.
Should you use a weighted compensatory decision-making model incorporating both qualitative & quantitative criteria?
The criteria weightings will be as subjective as the assessed criteria scores themselves.
These Decision Making Models seldom reflect the organic nature of human decision-making which often involves cognitive associations stretching way back into old memories & unstated emotional connections e.g. liking something because you associate it with someone dear to you who had an association with that object, place, activity or aspiration.
Bottom Line: It's a non-question from a consumer behaviour perspective - it's deeply personal.
The best 911 TO you is the one you like the most. Which isn't the same as asking what is the best 911 FOR you - that's a question of useage, practicality & circumstance.
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