Is the 991 GT3 the greatest 911 and Sportscar ever made?
Discussion
APOLO1 said:
no......well not yet, as they are still working on the upgrades, along with suspension, wheels ect.....I would expect one to come out at Geneva.
This point is nothing unusual for Porsche. The 997tts were all up about 20/25bhp at stock, The Gt3 rated at 465 is closer to 490.....
Edited by APOLO1 on Sunday 19th January 11:28
The 991 turbo S may have more power for 20s with the Sport button on so I guess one could claim the 600PS for performance up to 160ish mph. On a loaded engine dyno the full power will be the 560PS advertised. The 991 tS 0-300kph in 30-31s is verification of this power. A PDK 600PS 991 turbo would be around the 27-28s mark.
TB993tt said:
The data I have seen over the years from engine dyno measurements corrected to DIN show Porsche data to be pretty much spot on with often a 10hp upward variance on some turbocharged models. If your tuners are using rolling roads then they can believe whatever they want to
The 991 turbo S may have more power for 20s with the Sport button on so I guess one could claim the 600PS for performance up to 160ish mph. On a loaded engine dyno the full power will be the 560PS advertised. The 991 tS 0-300kph in 30-31s is verification of this power. A PDK 600PS 991 turbo would be around the 27-28s mark.
The 991 turbo S may have more power for 20s with the Sport button on so I guess one could claim the 600PS for performance up to 160ish mph. On a loaded engine dyno the full power will be the 560PS advertised. The 991 tS 0-300kph in 30-31s is verification of this power. A PDK 600PS 991 turbo would be around the 27-28s mark.
pls help me on this one......how much is 50plus f-lbs of Torque worth in BHP,? a good friend has mapped Probley more Turbo P, than any one else on the planet...yet to see one that was not above spec.....Like my self many owner's on here have had upgrade's, on T, P cars, I well recall my own 33k mile, 997tts, being 25 Bhp above stock.....pre upgrade....
APOLO1 said:
pls help me on this one......how much is 50plus f-lbs of Torque worth in BHP,? a good friend has mapped Probley more Turbo P, than any one else on the planet...yet to see one that was not above spec.....Like my self many owner's on here have had upgrade's, on T, P cars, I well recall my own 33k mile, 997tts, being 25 Bhp above stock.....pre upgrade....
Watch the video above then consider how a rolling road test can easily show more power with a relatively unloaded run up through 4th gear.
The problem with a lot of remapping of these turbos is that whilst they may find some extra power for the 4th gear 10 second roling road run and for 10 odd seconds on the road, when fully loaded the power wilts away through too much heat making the ECU pull boost, richen fuelling and pull timing - lots of these heroes at vmax events.
Edited by TB993tt on Sunday 19th January 18:54
mrdemon said:
And does the GT3 still change gear in sports manual like all the other PDK cars! or is it really the 1st true manual PDK ? Will it never kick down if you floor it in 4th as an example.
Surely any PDK car only changes down if you use the 'kick down' feature???You can use 100% throttle in whatever gear you want in manual mode. (Unless you're so crap at throttle control you can't help but smash the pedal to the floor and activate the kick down)
Paul_M3 said:
Surely any PDK car only changes down if you use the 'kick down' feature???
Won't 'notmal' PDK also change down to avoid stalling the engine at low speeds?Paul_M3 said:
You can use 100% throttle in whatever gear you want in manual mode. (Unless you're so crap at throttle control you can't help but smash the pedal to the floor and activate the kick down)
Also in manual mode PDK-S won't shift up as you hit the rev limiter (unlike PDK-S)sidicks said:
Paul_M3 said:
Surely any PDK car only changes down if you use the 'kick down' feature???
Won't 'notmal' PDK also change down to avoid stalling the engine at low speeds?Paul_M3 said:
You can use 100% throttle in whatever gear you want in manual mode. (Unless you're so crap at throttle control you can't help but smash the pedal to the floor and activate the kick down)
Also in manual mode PDK-S won't shift up as you hit the rev limiter (unlike PDK-S)Normal PDK:
In manual mode if you use 100% throttle it will stay in the gear you are in and sit there bouncing off the rev limiter.
If you do the same thing but then push further to activate 'kick down' the PDK will drop to the lowest gear possible AND change up for you when you get to the limiter.
Paul_M3 said:
They will all change down to stop stalling.
PDK-S will not. (as I understand it)Paul_M3 said:
Normal PDK:
In manual mode if you use 100% throttle it will stay in the gear you are in and sit there bouncing off the rev limiter.
Really? (not as I understand it)In manual mode if you use 100% throttle it will stay in the gear you are in and sit there bouncing off the rev limiter.
Paul_M3 said:
If you do the same thing but then push further to activate 'kick down' the PDK will drop to the lowest gear possible AND change up for you when you get to the limiter.
OK.sidicks said:
Paul_M3 said:
They will all change down to stop stalling.
PDK-S will not. (as I understand it)Paul_M3 said:
Normal PDK:
In manual mode if you use 100% throttle it will stay in the gear you are in and sit there bouncing off the rev limiter.
Really? (not as I understand it)In manual mode if you use 100% throttle it will stay in the gear you are in and sit there bouncing off the rev limiter.
Paul_M3 said:
If you do the same thing but then push further to activate 'kick down' the PDK will drop to the lowest gear possible AND change up for you when you get to the limiter.
OK.The other bits are how the PDK works in my 2009 Cayman S. I assumed the 911 PDK would work in the same way??
APOLO1 said:
isaldiri said:
7:34 ring time so 2 seconds off the 991 gt3 (not quite 30-40mph corner speed advantage over a 12c either clearly 
) . Bit unusual given the turbo s was a good bit faster at hockenheim and i would have thought the extra power the turbo s has over the gt3 would have helped round the ring more than hockenheim.
600hp is an awful lot more power than the 560 claimed though....
) . Bit unusual given the turbo s was a good bit faster at hockenheim and i would have thought the extra power the turbo s has over the gt3 would have helped round the ring more than hockenheim.600hp is an awful lot more power than the 560 claimed though....
I was referring to a wet track you will recall.......Lol.....I asked the tech guys at P- AG, just how much the rear wheel steer, torque vec, ect, on the 991tts was worth in actual BHP terms on track, around the twisty bits......its a lot
Power wise. I am aware of 600bhp as stock. but this is in sport plus with over boost engaged....be interesting find out if the GT3 was on Dunlop's.....much sharper turn in on Dunlop's than MSC
Edited by APOLO1 on Sunday 19th January 09:20
at risk of being accused of having too much time on my hands, can I refer you to the below quotes previously... where perhaps it's just me but I see no references to a wet track.... Anyhow.... I probably should try one at some point to see what it's like. The sportauto GT3 was on PS Cup2s, interesting you reckon the dunlops are a good bit sharper than the cup2...
APOLO1 said:
isaldiri said:
I would love to see you try to put a 991 turbo s through stowe at Silverstone or pouhon at spa 30 or now 40mph faster than a 12c even vaguely approaching grip limt in the dry and see if you come out of the corner....
Lol......Done that today mate.......and your next point is......APOLO1 said:
As I have always said. I only comment on the cars that own or I have driven, Now, I can not comment on cars that are in another time another place. I can tell you that it is FACT that my 991tts will take bends on road and track that in a 12c are just simply not possible....ie the 991 tts is at least 30mph faster....more at some points....
isaldiri said:
APOLO1 said:
isaldiri said:
7:34 ring time so 2 seconds off the 991 gt3 (not quite 30-40mph corner speed advantage over a 12c either clearly ) . Bit unusual given the turbo s was a good bit faster at hockenheim and i would have thought the extra power the turbo s has over the gt3 would have helped round the ring more than hockenheim.
600hp is an awful lot more power than the 560 claimed though....
) . Bit unusual given the turbo s was a good bit faster at hockenheim and i would have thought the extra power the turbo s has over the gt3 would have helped round the ring more than hockenheim.600hp is an awful lot more power than the 560 claimed though....
I was referring to a wet track you will recall.......Lol.....I asked the tech guys at P- AG, just how much the rear wheel steer, torque vec, ect, on the 991tts was worth in actual BHP terms on track, around the twisty bits......its a lot
Power wise. I am aware of 600bhp as stock. but this is in sport plus with over boost engaged....be interesting find out if the GT3 was on Dunlop's.....much sharper turn in on Dunlop's than MSC
Edited by APOLO1 on Sunday 19th January 09:20
at risk of being accused of having too much time on my hands, can I refer you to the below quotes previously... where perhaps it's just me but I see no references to a wet track.... Anyhow.... I probably should try one at some point to see what it's like. The sportauto GT3 was on PS Cup2s, interesting you reckon the dunlops are a good bit sharper than the cup2...
APOLO1 said:
isaldiri said:
I would love to see you try to put a 991 turbo s through stowe at Silverstone or pouhon at spa 30 or now 40mph faster than a 12c even vaguely approaching grip limt in the dry and see if you come out of the corner....
Lol......Done that today mate.......and your next point is......APOLO1 said:
As I have always said. I only comment on the cars that own or I have driven, Now, I can not comment on cars that are in another time another place. I can tell you that it is FACT that my 991tts will take bends on road and track that in a 12c are just simply not possible....ie the 991 tts is at least 30mph faster....more at some points....
As for the Dunlop's, much more grip than the MPScs......
Edited by APOLO1 on Sunday 19th January 20:52
Carl_Docklands said:
Don't start you lot
Anyone got hold of the sport auto article who speaks German?, want to know if and why they gave the turbo the nod over the gt3...
I can make a guess.Anyone got hold of the sport auto article who speaks German?, want to know if and why they gave the turbo the nod over the gt3...
Given that the GT3 and Turbo now share similar technology and digital interfaces, the distance between the driving experience has narrowed significantly.
Therefore, you may aswell go for the more powerful car....
mollytherocker said:
I can make a guess.
Given that the GT3 and Turbo now share similar technology and digital interfaces, the distance between the driving experience has narrowed significantly.
Therefore, you may aswell go for the more powerful car....
Of course those that have driven both say the opposite...Given that the GT3 and Turbo now share similar technology and digital interfaces, the distance between the driving experience has narrowed significantly.
Therefore, you may aswell go for the more powerful car....
TB993tt said:
The data I have seen over the years from engine dyno measurements corrected to DIN show Porsche data to be pretty much spot on with often a 10hp upward variance on some turbocharged models. If your tuners are using rolling roads then they can believe whatever they want to
The 991 turbo S may have more power for 20s with the Sport button on so I guess one could claim the 600PS for performance up to 160ish mph. On a loaded engine dyno the full power will be the 560PS advertised. The 991 tS 0-300kph in 30-31s is verification of this power. A PDK 600PS 991 turbo would be around the 27-28s mark.
If the 991tts is 600ps then so must the 997tts be... I'm yet to see any convincing performance data that shows the 991 to be any faster than the 997 as yet !The 991 turbo S may have more power for 20s with the Sport button on so I guess one could claim the 600PS for performance up to 160ish mph. On a loaded engine dyno the full power will be the 560PS advertised. The 991 tS 0-300kph in 30-31s is verification of this power. A PDK 600PS 991 turbo would be around the 27-28s mark.
The Mp4-12c pre upgrade at 600ps was tested by autocar to be miles faster than any 997tts that I've seen tested, or 991tts for that matter... and I don't believe Porsche skimp on their horses leading me to believe that the claimed power outputs for recent turbos are pretty much spot on. Have seen plenty of turbos on dynos and don't hold much stock in any of the results.. including my own car.
ZeroH said:
If the 991tts is 600ps then so must the 997tts be... I'm yet to see any convincing performance data that shows the 991 to be any faster than the 997 as yet !
The Mp4-12c pre upgrade at 600ps was tested by autocar to be miles faster than any 997tts that I've seen tested, or 991tts for that matter... and I don't believe Porsche skimp on their horses leading me to believe that the claimed power outputs for recent turbos are pretty much spot on. Have seen plenty of turbos on dynos and don't hold much stock in any of the results.. including my own car.
The Mp4-12c pre upgrade at 600ps was tested by autocar to be miles faster than any 997tts that I've seen tested, or 991tts for that matter... and I don't believe Porsche skimp on their horses leading me to believe that the claimed power outputs for recent turbos are pretty much spot on. Have seen plenty of turbos on dynos and don't hold much stock in any of the results.. including my own car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glQFTY7rmxI
12c v 991tts, you mean like in the test above.....
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