996 engines; what are the odds?
Discussion
I know all the stories and debate about 996/986 and 997/987 engine problems, but my question is this:
If you bought a well maintained 996 3.6 with sensible miles (say 60-80k), what are the chances you would encounter the sort of engine problems that would require a full rebuild in 5 years?
SS7
If you bought a well maintained 996 3.6 with sensible miles (say 60-80k), what are the chances you would encounter the sort of engine problems that would require a full rebuild in 5 years?
SS7
marky911 said:
Can't really argue with that. I could never relax driving one that hadn't already had a rebuild. Unless it was stupidly cheap in the first place. Even then I think why bother. Not worth the hassle when there are other good cars out there without the pot-luck engine issues.
Having re engined a Boxter with THAT engine, it is evident that the car is a lacklustre thing with dead steering and an excessively complicated and unreliable engine. I would rather live with a TVR tuscan and it's equally short lived but simpler speed six, at least the car has some character between rebuilds!
Seriously though, you need one with a very credible and expensive rebuild by a good indy, anything else is a lottery
Seriously though, you need one with a very credible and expensive rebuild by a good indy, anything else is a lottery
shoestring7 said:
But I know the odds of winning the national lottery are ~1 in 14m, what are the odds of having a 996 engine properly grenade?
SS7
But everyone starts from the same point when buying a lotto ticket - completely different to buying a 9-15 year old used car with whatever life it's had. If you bought the first 10 996's that took your fancy then chances are 1 would fail....however, if you bought the first 10 that passed an inspection (including boroscope) then there's a good chance none of them would fail.SS7
FWIW I drive my 996 without giving much thought to what might happen (I do have the peace of mind that the IMS's been changed admittedly) and I think I'd enjoy it a lot less if I was constantly worrying.
thegoose said:
FWIW I drive my 996 without giving much thought to what might happen (I do have the peace of mind that the IMS's been changed admittedly) and I think I'd enjoy it a lot less if I was constantly worrying.
I found a full-proof way of not worrying if the engine might fail.........................................I sold the car 
It's getting to the point where you can buy a 996 and risk it and if it goes pop you get another one rather than an engine rebuild as it is either cheaper or less hassle. Bit like BIC disposables.
I went on a track day and saw a 996 with smoke curling out of the exhaust with the owner looking on. I did another 100 laps in some Japanese crud that cost less for the whole car than he was looking at coming out of his pipenpopzandbangz.
I do believe that unless you realise the 996 is disposable, therefore drive it with vigour, instead you might end up just thinking about the engine everytime you go for a blat. Where is the fun in that? I guess Mazda RX owners have the same issues.
I think you should buy something you can rag without worrying. That can be a 996 if it is cheap enough and you have enough secret resources your wife does not know about
Or something else.
I went on a track day and saw a 996 with smoke curling out of the exhaust with the owner looking on. I did another 100 laps in some Japanese crud that cost less for the whole car than he was looking at coming out of his pipenpopzandbangz.
I do believe that unless you realise the 996 is disposable, therefore drive it with vigour, instead you might end up just thinking about the engine everytime you go for a blat. Where is the fun in that? I guess Mazda RX owners have the same issues.
I think you should buy something you can rag without worrying. That can be a 996 if it is cheap enough and you have enough secret resources your wife does not know about
Or something else.shoestring7 said:
what are the odds of having a 996 engine properly grenade?
Probably much lower than people make out on here. You're much more likely to have people going online to bemoan a failed engine than they are to report years of success. I drive mine about without any worry (although I do pay careful attention to any odd noises I hear).Ever played Russian Roulette ?
On a serious note just buy a good car with decent history. If the engine is going to go pop normally happens quite early in their lives. If you get car checked out properly and its done those sort of miles it should be fine. OPC always told me it was cars that weren't used a lot which seemed to develop issues. In my view 996 C2 is one of the best sports cars in the world and a car more modern machinery could learn a thing or two from in terms of dynamics and engagement.
On a serious note just buy a good car with decent history. If the engine is going to go pop normally happens quite early in their lives. If you get car checked out properly and its done those sort of miles it should be fine. OPC always told me it was cars that weren't used a lot which seemed to develop issues. In my view 996 C2 is one of the best sports cars in the world and a car more modern machinery could learn a thing or two from in terms of dynamics and engagement.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Just to prove that there's no hard & fast way to be safe with these in terms of model/mileage choice, the IMS on my early (R reg) 3.4 was replaced because it happened to be on a ramp and was noticed as noisy (suggesting imminent failure), this was at around 90,000 miles (zero Range 2's incidentally). Now on 109k, driven hard and enjoyed. 
I have had two excellent 3.4 996's. They do have some inherent problems but I have a low temp thermostat and the oil changed every 5000 miles. Both are on the Hartech scheme. Believe me, the 996 turbo I would like to have will cost me more to run. I'd still be worried about catastrophic failure (chains snapping) and they are twice the price to fix. Turbos fail; there are 3 radiators; lots of pipes to fail etc and the gearbox is more awkward and expensive to sort.
Lots of older engines need a rebuild. 996's are very good value cars. Look at the price of 993s that are not as good a drive. Turbos cost a lot more to be on the Hartech scheme and so do 993s. Hartech are obviously pricing in the risk into that premium and 996's look a good buy.
Lots of older engines need a rebuild. 996's are very good value cars. Look at the price of 993s that are not as good a drive. Turbos cost a lot more to be on the Hartech scheme and so do 993s. Hartech are obviously pricing in the risk into that premium and 996's look a good buy.
Its impossible to give you a percentage risk. But certainly the longer you keep it, the more likely one of the issues will rear its ugly head.
I am certain of the fact that eventually the engine will D chunk, score its bores, explode its IMS or something else.
Its not if, its when. The question is, will it happen in 5 years of ownership? I cant back this up, but my feeling with all that i know about it is that it would be more than a 5% risk.
Why not look at it another way. Factor a rebuild at say 7k into your ownership cost and depreciate that over 5 years.
If you buy an otherwise good car, then it starts to make sense.
I am certain of the fact that eventually the engine will D chunk, score its bores, explode its IMS or something else.
Its not if, its when. The question is, will it happen in 5 years of ownership? I cant back this up, but my feeling with all that i know about it is that it would be more than a 5% risk.
Why not look at it another way. Factor a rebuild at say 7k into your ownership cost and depreciate that over 5 years.
If you buy an otherwise good car, then it starts to make sense.
I agree with the above re factoring it in. There are a few in the classifieds with very high miles on occasion. There was a recent one with 200k. People are very pessimistic. All engines have certain weaknesses. Treat them with care and you might get a lot of miles out of them! I just drove all over the Alps and Italy in mine and I don't have stacks of cash to fix it. I got a full AA Eurpean policy and made sure they'd tow it back to blighty if the event occurred. It was great and was driven fairly hard.
20% will lunch an engine at some point in their life due to bore scoring or failed IMS bearing. Some of them have gone on to lunch a second.
I got that from a mate. He has however been buying and selling (very successfully) for 40+ years. Call me a cynic but I think specialists underestimate the number so you eventually take it to them for a rebuild :-)
I probably wouldn't get one unless its been sorted by Hartech or similar, but then expect to pay a bit more.
I got that from a mate. He has however been buying and selling (very successfully) for 40+ years. Call me a cynic but I think specialists underestimate the number so you eventually take it to them for a rebuild :-)
I probably wouldn't get one unless its been sorted by Hartech or similar, but then expect to pay a bit more.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Absolutely agree. I was just having a bit of fun with the Porsche/TVR thing,because i have a 996 and a Tuscan next to each other in the workshop today, and it is a fact that they are both equal value damp, booster pack dependent, irritable, bad tempered cars that we love very much!But it is both a shame that TVR were in part crushed by their misguided, amateurish attempt at a straight six engine, and that the might of Porsche was for so many years able to build an equally shocking motor and get off the hook. I had a chap in my workshop a few months ago, and he made a beeline for a grenaded 986 engine on my bench as he recognised the debris. Turns out he works for a company a few miles away from here (Sandhurst) that have been reworking these engines for the Porsche factory for years. I had no idea, and no doubt Porsche don't shout about it, as it would rather expose their knowledge of a real problem.
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