996 engines; what are the odds?
Discussion
Porsche Cars NA had to provide figures as disclosure in a class action law suit...
The M96.1 (early Boxster and 996.1 3.4 with dual-row bearing design): less than 1% lifetime failure rate
The M96.2 (later Boxster and 996.2 3.6 with single-row bearing design): 8% lifetime failure rate
http://www.imsporschesettlement.com/what-exactly-h...
The M96.1 (early Boxster and 996.1 3.4 with dual-row bearing design): less than 1% lifetime failure rate
The M96.2 (later Boxster and 996.2 3.6 with single-row bearing design): 8% lifetime failure rate
http://www.imsporschesettlement.com/what-exactly-h...
ras62 said:
Porsche Cars NA had to provide figures as disclosure in a class action law suit...
The M96.1 (early Boxster and 996.1 3.4 with dual-row bearing design): less than 1% lifetime failure rate
The M96.2 (later Boxster and 996.2 3.6 with single-row bearing design): 8% lifetime failure rate
http://www.imsporschesettlement.com/what-exactly-h...
@@@@,@@@@@@ @@@@, and statistics... The M96.1 (early Boxster and 996.1 3.4 with dual-row bearing design): less than 1% lifetime failure rate
The M96.2 (later Boxster and 996.2 3.6 with single-row bearing design): 8% lifetime failure rate
http://www.imsporschesettlement.com/what-exactly-h...
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/boxster-and-...
6. Which Porsche vehicles are included?
The following Porsche Boxster and 911 vehicles that experienced or WILL experience IMS related engine damage are included:
• Model year 2001 - 2005 Porsche Boxster vehicles manufactured with an IMS between May 4, 2001 and February 21, 2005 with VINs in the following ranges:
Or open the court document on the following link. Page 13 of 39
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&...
6. Which Porsche vehicles are included?
The following Porsche Boxster and 911 vehicles that experienced or WILL experience IMS related engine damage are included:
• Model year 2001 - 2005 Porsche Boxster vehicles manufactured with an IMS between May 4, 2001 and February 21, 2005 with VINs in the following ranges:
Or open the court document on the following link. Page 13 of 39
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&...
Edited by ras62 on Sunday 15th December 10:31
It seems only the American law system progresses Class actions this way.
It was exactly the same action that did for Land Rovers disastrous K Series engine. Just after that BMW bought remains the company and started fitting reliable engines.
So which engine do you think VW/Audi should put in the 911/Boxter?
It was exactly the same action that did for Land Rovers disastrous K Series engine. Just after that BMW bought remains the company and started fitting reliable engines.
So which engine do you think VW/Audi should put in the 911/Boxter?
The one they're using now tbh. From 997.2 onwards, it appears they've ironed the issues out.... And the 991 engine has developed from the last generation of 997 (from what I've read - happy to have this blown out of the internet water!)
Fwiw, my Hartech rebuild price STARTED at £6k, then you have the other work done on top.....ie IMS bearing, strengthened liners. I also had a clutch done too.... Makes sense whilst the engine's out tbh.
Dan
Fwiw, my Hartech rebuild price STARTED at £6k, then you have the other work done on top.....ie IMS bearing, strengthened liners. I also had a clutch done too.... Makes sense whilst the engine's out tbh.
Dan
DanoS4 said:
The one they're using now tbh. From 997.2 onwards, it appears they've ironed the issues out.... And the 991 engine has developed from the last generation of 997 (from what I've read - happy to have this blown out of the internet water!)
Fwiw, my Hartech rebuild price STARTED at £6k, then you have the other work done on top.....ie IMS bearing, strengthened liners. I also had a clutch done too.... Makes sense whilst the engine's out tbh.
Dan
As I understand it, the engine used from the 987.2/997.2 on is the type 9A1 engine, which wasn't so much a development of the M96/7 as a complete redesign with a different block. So it doesn't have the troublesome crank cradle and IMS bearings which were causing so many problems, and is strong enough to use in the GT3 and turbo. Presumably the cooling system is better also. I have to admit, I've not heard any reports of serious trouble with these engines, or the DFI system that can cause coking in Audi's.Fwiw, my Hartech rebuild price STARTED at £6k, then you have the other work done on top.....ie IMS bearing, strengthened liners. I also had a clutch done too.... Makes sense whilst the engine's out tbh.
Dan
Sadly, almost all of the cars using this lump (bar the 2.9/2.7s) are in the top rate of VED, and I'll be cold and dead before I pay £500p.a. to keep a car on the road.
SS7
Pugley said:
It seems only the American law system progresses Class actions this way.
It was exactly the same action that did for Land Rovers disastrous K Series engine. Just after that BMW bought remains the company and started fitting reliable engines.
So which engine do you think VW/Audi should put in the 911/Boxter?
Joking aside it won't be long until you see the 2.0 litre TFSi engine in the Porsche entry level line up.It was exactly the same action that did for Land Rovers disastrous K Series engine. Just after that BMW bought remains the company and started fitting reliable engines.
So which engine do you think VW/Audi should put in the 911/Boxter?
911wise said:
Pugley said:
It seems only the American law system progresses Class actions this way.
It was exactly the same action that did for Land Rovers disastrous K Series engine. Just after that BMW bought remains the company and started fitting reliable engines.
So which engine do you think VW/Audi should put in the 911/Boxter?
Joking aside it won't be long until you see the 2.0 litre TFSi engine in the Porsche entry level line up.It was exactly the same action that did for Land Rovers disastrous K Series engine. Just after that BMW bought remains the company and started fitting reliable engines.
So which engine do you think VW/Audi should put in the 911/Boxter?
My money is on a ~2l flat four.
SS7
shoestring7 said:
I can't see how a TFSi engine Porsche sportscar would fit with an Audi range that includes a TFSi engined sportscar.
My money is on a ~2l flat four.
SS7
Why bother with R+D costs when you have a perfectly good tried and tested engine to hand. An engine that's also proved very flexible to different states of tune. My money is on a ~2l flat four.
SS7
Its not been a problem for Porsche to use the same diesel engines that are widely available across the VW/Audi range.
Probably wont see it in current line up,but I wouldn't be too disappointed to see an entry level 250-280bhp 4cyl blown engine with a bit of Porsche character stamped on it (sound).
Edited by 911wise on Sunday 15th December 20:24
Edited by 911wise on Sunday 15th December 20:25
911wise said:
shoestring7 said:
I can't see how a TFSi engine Porsche sportscar would fit with an Audi range that includes a TFSi engined sportscar.
My money is on a ~2l flat four.
SS7
Why bother with R+D costs when you have a perfectly good tried and tested engine to hand. An engine that's also proved very flexible to different states of tune. My money is on a ~2l flat four.
SS7
Its not been a problem for Porsche to use the same diesel engines that our wideley available across the VW/Audi range.
Probably wont see it in current line up,but I wouldn't be to disappointed to see an entry level 250-280bhp 4cyl blown engine with a bit of Porsche character stamped on it (sound).
I would be very surprised if Porsche didn't develop a flat 4 for use both in the Boxter / Cayman and 911. However, for the Macan and Cayenne - then it would make more sense to re-use VAG engines for platform compatibilty.
I'm sure there is an obvious reason - but when they downsize, why can't they use a small flat 6's or V8's? Are more cylinders actually that much more inefficient? Remembering the Ferrari 208 - 2 litre turbo V8 for the Italian market for tax reasons... I think a 2 litre turbo flat 6 would reduce backlash, keep more 'pretige' (whatever that means nowadays) and be easier to retain good acoustics.
I'm sure there is an obvious reason - but when they downsize, why can't they use a small flat 6's or V8's? Are more cylinders actually that much more inefficient? Remembering the Ferrari 208 - 2 litre turbo V8 for the Italian market for tax reasons... I think a 2 litre turbo flat 6 would reduce backlash, keep more 'pretige' (whatever that means nowadays) and be easier to retain good acoustics.
Shurv said:
Current VW engines aren't the paragon of reliability they'd like everyone to think. I certainly wouldn't buy a Porsche with a parts bin VW engine fitted.
Maybe not, but the cost saving per unit would be too hard for the group to ignore. The thought of a VW engine might put off some, but many won't care or just don't know or both. Certainly hasn't done Bentley any harm or Porsche past and present.Dan911 said:
I love the 996, find myself looking at the C4S as they are a great looking 911.
But, I would not buy one unless it had a Hartech rebuild, I can't see driving/enjoying a car while worried about the engine. My last Cayman all I did was worry about how much oil it used, checking the left exhaust for soot after every trip... I look after every Porsche I own with a 'what ever it needs' attitude, but could not enjoy the worrying about all the areas these engines have problems with. On my last euro blast we popped into a Porsche engine builder in Zurich to look at a GT1 he was looking after and got chatting about the 996/987 engines, I had to laugh when he said 'I have cheese stronger than them engines'!
Just my 2pence worth.. And what do I know.
The question needs to be asked. Did you have any issues with the engine in your Cayman?But, I would not buy one unless it had a Hartech rebuild, I can't see driving/enjoying a car while worried about the engine. My last Cayman all I did was worry about how much oil it used, checking the left exhaust for soot after every trip... I look after every Porsche I own with a 'what ever it needs' attitude, but could not enjoy the worrying about all the areas these engines have problems with. On my last euro blast we popped into a Porsche engine builder in Zurich to look at a GT1 he was looking after and got chatting about the 996/987 engines, I had to laugh when he said 'I have cheese stronger than them engines'!
Just my 2pence worth.. And what do I know.
The one they're using now tbh. From 997.2 onwards, it appears they've ironed the issues out.... And the 991 engine has developed from the last generation of 997 (from what I've read - happy to have this blown out of the internet water!)
Fwiw, my Hartech rebuild price STARTED at £6k, then you have the other work done on top.....ie IMS bearing, strengthened liners. I also had a clutch done too.... Makes sense whilst the engine's out tbh.
Dan
Fwiw, my Hartech rebuild price STARTED at £6k, then you have the other work done on top.....ie IMS bearing, strengthened liners. I also had a clutch done too.... Makes sense whilst the engine's out tbh.
Dan
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