991 GT3 . Best Performance car 2014

[pork911]

sidicks said:

pork911 said:

Irrelevant really what the reason is. It's not ready.

And yet you still ignore that early cars appear most certainly to have "been ready" given the lack of failures on early cars which have been had and extensively, and the fact that on'y 2 (more recent low mileage) cars have actually had a problem.

So, development cars that haven't burnt are 'ready'?

[APOLO1]

mpbcs said:

APOLO1 said:

nah......look at the CH vid, its a little better that's it.....It will still loose over 100k within 12 months though,(ok I escaped with 87K) that's the problem ya see, its the Brand, no discount......the market knows this , that's why it get absolutely hammered when used.....

how well is it selling ?.......

IMHO

Edited by APOLO1 on Tuesday 22 April 16:46

Alternatively look at Sutcliffe's video... Or many others. And how misguided are you if you think that the way to help residuals is to offer discounts on new cars, that is retarded thinking. Selling well from my conversations from dealers. And before you ask, yes I am buying one. Your posts sound like sour grapes from a person that bid Mclaren well below list and were wisely told to 'do one!' I strongly suggest you reign your posts in to what you actually know about then you might get back some of your credibility. At present you look very stupid on these forums to those of us that have genuine interest and knowledge about cars.

Discounts or no discounts, the market will adjust for any over valuation. as it did with the 12C, nothing misguided in that. I lost 87k in 9 months and 8k miles on my Coupe, and My SP, RRP 259k 600 miles, sold for 208k

Both the 12c and 650 are great cars, but imv neither can be compared to the 991GT3.

As to what I actually know about, I have owned 3 x 12Cs, 2 coupes and one SP, I am very close friends with about 12 or so owners around the world. I have driven the 650s.I have also done approx. 15 full on track days in the 12c, I Have also driven both the 918 several times and P1, on both road and track.I have also done 4 track days in 991GT3 before the stop- drive.

Over the past couple of years, Apart from the 12cs above, I have owned and still own many other performance cars, including 2 x 991GT3s

So I am able to make informed views.

I will buy a 650 at some point, but not at list or any point close. Like others I can not justify close to a 100k loss for a car that is just a little better than a 13MY 12c.
To use your words imv, this would be retarded

IMHO

Edited by APOLO1 on Wednesday 23 April 09:01

[mpbcs]

APOLO1 said:

Discounts or no discounts, the market will adjust for any over valuation. as it did with the 12C, nothing misguided in that. I lost 87k in 9 months and 8k miles on my Coupe, and My SP, RRP 259k 600 miles, sold for 208k

Both the 12c and 650 are great cars, but imv neither can be compared to the 991GT3.

As to what I actually know about, I have owned 3 x 12Cs, 2 coupes and one SP, I am very close friends with about 12 or so owners around the world. I have driven the 650s.I have also done approx. 15 full on track days in the 12c, I Have also driven both the 918 several times and P1, on both road and track.I have also done 4 track days in 991GT3 before the stop- drive.

Over the past couple of years, Apart from the 12cs above, I have owned and still own many other performance cars, including 2 x 991GT3s

So I am able to make informed views.

I will buy a 650 at some point, but not at list or any point close. Like others I can not justify close to 100k for a car that is just a little better than a 13MY 12c.

IMHO

Edited by APOLO1 on Wednesday 23 April 07:03

This is a more reasoned response that your first. But money does neither buy you wisdom or the ability to drive and understand a cars dynamics. Your opinions are just that, opinions. I think you would gain more credibility from giving them as such (and some of your posts are admittedly interesting and informative),rather than stating things as fact that are clearly incorrect or can not be proven.

I too have owned a range of supercars but have no interest in blowing my own trumpet. I have also raced cars and built engines so I understand how things work. I usually only post when I have something constructive to say, but your inaccuracies need to be highlighted!

[mrdemon]

Still selling them in the showrooms, this was taken yesterday at my OPC.

Says Porsche approved on the number plate :-)

[sidicks]

pork911 said:

So, development cars that haven't burnt are 'ready'?

I think those that have owned these cars and driven them extensively see them as fantastic production models.

[APOLO1]

mpbcs said:

APOLO1 said:

Discounts or no discounts, the market will adjust for any over valuation. as it did with the 12C, nothing misguided in that. I lost 87k in 9 months and 8k miles on my Coupe, and My SP, RRP 259k 600 miles, sold for 208k

Both the 12c and 650 are great cars, but imv neither can be compared to the 991GT3.

As to what I actually know about, I have owned 3 x 12Cs, 2 coupes and one SP, I am very close friends with about 12 or so owners around the world. I have driven the 650s.I have also done approx. 15 full on track days in the 12c, I Have also driven both the 918 several times and P1, on both road and track.I have also done 4 track days in 991GT3 before the stop- drive.

Over the past couple of years, Apart from the 12cs above, I have owned and still own many other performance cars, including 2 x 991GT3s

So I am able to make informed views.

I will buy a 650 at some point, but not at list or any point close. Like others I can not justify close to 100k for a car that is just a little better than a 13MY 12c.

IMHO

Edited by APOLO1 on Wednesday 23 April 07:03

This is a more reasoned response that your first. But money does neither buy you wisdom or the ability to drive and understand a cars dynamics. Your opinions are just that, opinions. I think you would gain more credibility from giving them as such (and some of your posts are admittedly interesting and informative),rather than stating things as fact that are clearly incorrect or can not be proven.

I too have owned a range of supercars but have no interest in blowing my own trumpet. I have also raced cars and built engines so I understand how things work. I usually only post when I have something constructive to say, but your inaccuracies need to be highlighted!

not my intention to W wave, at any time.....my experience's with the 12c, are Fact, nothing inaccurate about the losses. All Fact. I well recall trying to sell my 12C-SP and was told, to use your words," Do one" ie "we can not sell our own so why would we want yours"

There is a Brand problem here, at RRP. The market adjusts for this residual wise. How can it be right to offer Ltd edition 12cs as in the 50th at 60k off list. I am at a total loss at to why the RRP can not be more in line with the market. I like you brought early cars, and lost big time....Like others I am more careful this time round.

Just think on this, if the 650 follows the 12c deprecation wise, it will have lost very close to the cost of a new 991GT3 before the 1st year road tax is up....

These are not just my views, but the views of many owners.

As for the 650, it is a little better than what is already a great car......100k more,? never.
I agree it is a very fast car, but so is a 700BHP GTR,

IMHO

Edited by APOLO1 on Wednesday 23 April 09:28

[pork911]

sidicks said:

pork911 said:

So, development cars that haven't burnt are 'ready'?

I think those that have owned these cars and driven them extensively see them as fantastic production models.

Even now?

[sidicks]

pork911 said:

Even now?

Ask Macca..

[pork911]

We'll never agree.

I believe being able to use is fundamental. Currently it's useless.

You wish to ignore that.

[sidicks]

pork911 said:

We'll never agree.

I believe being able to use is fundamental. Currently it's useless.

You wish to ignore that.

Of course being able to use the car is fundamental - no-one is arguing with that.

I take issue with the rubbish that you were spouting about these cars effectively being development prototypes and not bring production ready. Ask the original owners and they'll disagree with your view.

[mhh]

I'm an owner and I certainly don't think the GT3 was production ready when released. Clearly neither does Porsche now since it has taken them off the road. As far as we know, it still isn't production ready since we are waiting to see the first car with its new engine.

[sidicks]

mhh said:

I'm an owner and I certainly don't think the GT3 was production ready when released. Clearly neither does Porsche now since it has taken them off the road. As far as we know, it still isn't production ready since we are waiting to see the first car with its new engine.

What problems have you had with your car before the stop sale?

[mhh]

sidicks said:

What problems have you had with your car before the stop sale?

None. I paid for it, registered it but never drove it before the stop sale. Then they told me the engine MIGHT be made of chocolate. They said they couldn't be sure, but I certainly shouldn't drive it or even start it. So no, it wasn't ready for sale as far as I'm concerned.

[sidicks]

mhh said:

None. I paid for it, registered it but never drove it before the stop sale. Then they told me the engine MIGHT be made of chocolate. They said they couldn't be sure, but I certainly shouldn't drive it or even start it. So no, it wasn't ready for sale as far as I'm concerned.

So, like me, you don't know there was anything wrong with your car.

[mhh]

sidicks said:

So, like me, you don't know there was anything wrong with your car.

It has an engine the manufacturer doesn't trust enough to use it to move the car around the showroom. That's "something wrong" to me.

[pork911]

sidicks said:

pork911 said:

We'll never agree.

I believe being able to use is fundamental. Currently it's useless.

You wish to ignore that.

Of course being able to use the car is fundamental - no-one is arguing with that.

I take issue with the rubbish that you were spouting about these cars effectively being development prototypes and not bring production ready. Ask the original owners and they'll disagree with your view.

It's not at all rubbish. Do the original owners NOW believe that? If they are production ready why the warning not to use, the recall and why aren't more new ones rolling out? It's not just a PR / legal issue. They are worse than development prototypes because they have been sold to customers. None of this is a criticism of what the car may well be once the issues resolved, but that hasn't happened yet. As I say, I don't think we'll ever agree but I wouldn't Be so impolite as to say YOU are spouting

[pork911]

mhh said:

sidicks said:

So, like me, you don't know there was anything wrong with your car.

It has an engine the manufacturer doesn't trust enough to use it to move the car around the showroom. That's "something wrong" to me.

Quite some performance

[AndyBrew]

mhh said:

It has an engine the manufacturer doesn't trust enough to use it to move the car around the showroom. That's "something wrong" to me.

that made me chuckle

[cayman-black]

AndyBrew said:

mhh said:

It has an engine the manufacturer doesn't trust enough to use it to move the car around the showroom. That's "something wrong" to me.

that made me chuckle

It made me laugh too, but not as much as some do on here are there mothers called Porsche?

[Ryanodine]

pork911 said:

sidicks said:

pork911 said:

We'll never agree.

I believe being able to use is fundamental. Currently it's useless.

You wish to ignore that.

Of course being able to use the car is fundamental - no-one is arguing with that.

I take issue with the rubbish that you were spouting about these cars effectively being development prototypes and not bring production ready. Ask the original owners and they'll disagree with your view.

It's not at all rubbish. Do the original owners NOW believe that? If they are production ready why the warning not to use, the recall and why aren't more new ones rolling out? It's not just a PR / legal issue. They are worse than development prototypes because they have been sold to customers. None of this is a criticism of what the car may well be once the issues resolved, but that hasn't happened yet. As I say, I don't think we'll ever agree but I wouldn't Be so impolite as to say YOU are spouting

Ok, maybe development prototype is harsh, given that the car was signed off and delivered to customers. But clearly the car is currently not production ready Sid, given that none of em are being produced! How can they be prod ready if all the engines need changing? It doesn't matter what the owners think, this is what Porsche is doing. And we can endlessly speculate as to what is wrong with the car but the course of action is fact.