GT3 vs Caterham
Discussion
curley said:
I was surprised reading this thread how many GT3 owners have ( or have had ) a Caterham .
What people forget , whilst they all look similar theres a huge difference between the top and bottom of the range , between S3 chassis , SVs and the CSR , between the tired track rental cars , Palmersport hacks and a well set up car with correct corner weights and geometry .
Being my first foray into Caterham's what model would you advise? I was looking at a Supersport R or a Roadsport 175.What people forget , whilst they all look similar theres a huge difference between the top and bottom of the range , between S3 chassis , SVs and the CSR , between the tired track rental cars , Palmersport hacks and a well set up car with correct corner weights and geometry .
I drive up to the West coast of Scotland a lot as we have a holiday house there and the driving roads are fantastic.
Therefore alot of the cars use would be on these types of roads but also with track days as well (Knockhill being my closest circuit).
As I will be using the car a lot on road Is the roadsport worth going for with the added weather equipment and other “comfort” features?
Is there a noticable difference between the roadsport and the supersport R?
I did notice the supersport comes with a LSD which would be an option I would have to spec on the roadsport if I went down that route.
vallance5 said:
Being my first foray into Caterham's what model would you advise? I was looking at a Supersport R or a Roadsport 175.
I drive up to the West coast of Scotland a lot as we have a holiday house there and the driving roads are fantastic.
Therefore alot of the cars use would be on these types of roads but also with track days as well (Knockhill being my closest circuit).
As I will be using the car a lot on road Is the roadsport worth going for with the added weather equipment and other “comfort” features?
Is there a noticable difference between the roadsport and the supersport R?
I did notice the supersport comes with a LSD which would be an option I would have to spec on the roadsport if I went down that route.
Have a look at the various threads on the Caterham forum (or start your own thread). I drive up to the West coast of Scotland a lot as we have a holiday house there and the driving roads are fantastic.
Therefore alot of the cars use would be on these types of roads but also with track days as well (Knockhill being my closest circuit).
As I will be using the car a lot on road Is the roadsport worth going for with the added weather equipment and other “comfort” features?
Is there a noticable difference between the roadsport and the supersport R?
I did notice the supersport comes with a LSD which would be an option I would have to spec on the roadsport if I went down that route.
I almost bought an R300 a few weeks back but decided it was probably too raw for mainly road use (bought an early 911 instead). Definitely want to own a Caterham at some stage. But probably as a second fun car.
If you fit in a standard S3 chassis I would start there ,the SV just doesn't handle as well , not hugely different but just not as Sharp . CSR supposed to be better over the bumps on the road but I am not sure that I like the way they feel .
Engine wise it's really up to you , having had a lowly 140 up car I would say coming from a GT3 you will find it slow , not in the conventional sence but you won't be pulling out and passing a line of 5 slow moving cars in 100 yards on a B road .
Most say about 175 to 200 BHP is about right for a very quick road car R300 or R400 type spec . My last car was an R400 and I kept it 10 years it was so good . The 620r has 310 BHP which some would say is too much but so far I haven't found it so , just need to be sensible on the road .
As for seats ,windscreen Etc it's all personal although I would reccomend dry sump if proposing to track it .
Have a look on the lotus 7 club forums Blat Chat , there's a huge amount of information there .
Engine wise it's really up to you , having had a lowly 140 up car I would say coming from a GT3 you will find it slow , not in the conventional sence but you won't be pulling out and passing a line of 5 slow moving cars in 100 yards on a B road .
Most say about 175 to 200 BHP is about right for a very quick road car R300 or R400 type spec . My last car was an R400 and I kept it 10 years it was so good . The 620r has 310 BHP which some would say is too much but so far I haven't found it so , just need to be sensible on the road .
As for seats ,windscreen Etc it's all personal although I would reccomend dry sump if proposing to track it .
Have a look on the lotus 7 club forums Blat Chat , there's a huge amount of information there .
vallance5 said:
Being my first foray into Caterham's what model would you advise? I was looking at a Supersport R or a Roadsport 175.
I drive up to the West coast of Scotland a lot as we have a holiday house there and the driving roads are fantastic.
Therefore alot of the cars use would be on these types of roads but also with track days as well (Knockhill being my closest circuit).
As I will be using the car a lot on road Is the roadsport worth going for with the added weather equipment and other “comfort” features?
Is there a noticable difference between the roadsport and the supersport R?
I did notice the supersport comes with a LSD which would be an option I would have to spec on the roadsport if I went down that route.
This is where the all important test drive will tell you. As I mentioned earlier I initially test drove an R300. In a straight line it did not blow me away with acceleration and didnt deliver as I had expected. Next step was an R400 which is only another 40bhp but the difference was very noticeable and also that it was the newer Duratec engine with more torque was also a bonus. That was that for me and R400 it had to be. The superlight comes with all the carbon gubbins and LSD etc which you will want for trackdays.I drive up to the West coast of Scotland a lot as we have a holiday house there and the driving roads are fantastic.
Therefore alot of the cars use would be on these types of roads but also with track days as well (Knockhill being my closest circuit).
As I will be using the car a lot on road Is the roadsport worth going for with the added weather equipment and other “comfort” features?
Is there a noticable difference between the roadsport and the supersport R?
I did notice the supersport comes with a LSD which would be an option I would have to spec on the roadsport if I went down that route.
The car is hardcore as it is but you can go aeroscreen which is even more hardcore but if you want weather protection then you need to keep the windscreen, wipers and hood which do an excellent job. I drove back from Spa predominantly in the lashing rain and with the roof up and wipers going it was no problem.
When the old R500 came out it was a long time ago now, 1999 perhaps ? It could match a 996 Gt3 at the ring at the very least (Nearn's R500 ring time wasn't exactly definitive), but on a regular circuit it was very quick for the time and nothing else road-going was close. Factory (i.e. unmodded) 996 GT3, 996RS, 360CS, Big power EVOS and Scoobs, no chance IMO.
The thing about the R500 is not its straight line speed or even its mid cornering speed (both are still exceptional however) but its speed in states of change is pretty mindboggling; you can be doing 125 down a straight and then in the blink of an eye you are down to say 45mph and you've thrown it into an S bend and its balanced through the second curve and already powering out. Its so small and nimble and can be hustled with such aggression and verve that recalibration is required compared to a fast tintop.
Todays RS 3.8 and 991 GT3 though ? Possibly faster on some of the power circuits i'd say, but then of course, caterham have since made the R500 evo, the Duratec R500 and now the 620R which are a lot faster again.
Who cares about laptimes on trackdays though. They are two of motorings greatest experiences. Do both before the sun finally sets IMO.
The thing about the R500 is not its straight line speed or even its mid cornering speed (both are still exceptional however) but its speed in states of change is pretty mindboggling; you can be doing 125 down a straight and then in the blink of an eye you are down to say 45mph and you've thrown it into an S bend and its balanced through the second curve and already powering out. Its so small and nimble and can be hustled with such aggression and verve that recalibration is required compared to a fast tintop.
Todays RS 3.8 and 991 GT3 though ? Possibly faster on some of the power circuits i'd say, but then of course, caterham have since made the R500 evo, the Duratec R500 and now the 620R which are a lot faster again.
Who cares about laptimes on trackdays though. They are two of motorings greatest experiences. Do both before the sun finally sets IMO.
Edited by jackal on Friday 30th May 20:40
Xps911 said:
Easy to catch up on the straights with all that horsepower but even your video shows the Caterham walking away from you out of the first corner at 18 seconds before you are fully straight again and jump on the loud pedal.Far Cough said:
Xps911 said:
Easy to catch up on the straights with all that horsepower but even your video shows the Caterham walking away from you out of the first corner at 18 seconds before you are fully straight again and jump on the loud pedal.yes also the early R500 had to have an engine rebuild every 4k miles or sooner....dint they
APOLO1 said:
yes also the early R500 had to have an engine rebuild every 4k miles or sooner....dint they
Apollo. Have you driven a k r500? If not try mine. Csr's are a dumbed down experience in comparison. I'm booked onto a brands gp day in August
abidr500 said:
APOLO1 said:
yes also the early R500 had to have an engine rebuild every 4k miles or sooner....dint they
Apollo. Have you driven a k r500? If not try mine. Csr's are a dumbed down experience in comparison. I'm booked onto a brands gp day in August
The CSR experience is very sanitised and boat-like compared to the traditional bodied car.
As well as the smaller form factor the crude DeDion rear axle actually adds an awful lot to the Caterham thing IMO.
abidr500 said:
Just had my r 500 engine rebuilt. After 12000 miles.
Apollo. Have you driven a k r500? If not try mine. Csr's are a dumbed down experience in comparison. I'm booked onto a brands gp day in August
I had one of the JP 250s same engine...I agree the 500 are more analogue. Thanks for the offer but I am not back in UK until Oct..what's the new 500 like?Apollo. Have you driven a k r500? If not try mine. Csr's are a dumbed down experience in comparison. I'm booked onto a brands gp day in August
Xps911 said:
It's called giving them a chance 
Yeah yeah 
APOLO1 said:
..what's the new 500 like?
I`ve only had a couple of passenger laps in one and it was very fast. They all pretty much do the same speed round the corners its the bit between the corners that the 500d rips along helped by the sequential box.quite a timely thread...my neighbour has just bought his fifth one and I was getting followed by one into Edinburgh today and was musing about owning one. I put that thought to bed as I thought I would rather have the 1000cc bike as there appears to be a lot of compromises with a caterham. each to their own and all that.
pmr01 said:
quite a timely thread...my neighbour has just bought his fifth one and I was getting followed by one into Edinburgh today and was musing about owning one. I put that thought to bed as I thought I would rather have the 1000cc bike as there appears to be a lot of compromises with a caterham. each to their own and all that.
I had an R300 Superlight K series for two years, followed by a 997 GT3 and am due to pick up a new 991 GT3 tomorrow.They are two completely different cars. If you want B road thrills and learn how to drive a car properly go for the Caterham. If you are going to track it regularly the Caterham hits a wall due to the aero dynamics of a housebrick (unless you have an R500). I am a member at Goodwood and do 5 or 6 track days a year and on fast tracks the Caterham cannot cope with GT3's - just go for a day at the PEC Silverstone when Caterham have a day and that will tell you everything you need to know. If you do a couple of track days a year and want a 2 hour thrill on local roads on a Sunday, on a regular basis nothing gets close to an RS300 Superlight for the cash. If you want maximum bang for buck at Silverstone, Spa etc, go for GT3.
pmr01 said:
quite a timely thread...my neighbour has just bought his fifth one and I was getting followed by one into Edinburgh today and was musing about owning one. I put that thought to bed as I thought I would rather have the 1000cc bike as there appears to be a lot of compromises with a caterham. each to their own and all that.
I had an R300 Superlight K series for two years, followed by a 997 GT3 and am due to pick up a new 991 GT3 tomorrow.They are two completely different cars. If you want B road thrills and learn how to drive a car properly go for the Caterham. If you are going to track it regularly the Caterham hits a wall due to the aero dynamics of a housebrick (unless you have an R500). I am a member at Goodwood and do 5 or 6 track days a year and on fast tracks the Caterham cannot cope with GT3's - just go for a day at the PEC Silverstone when Caterham have a day and that will tell you everything you need to know. If you do a couple of track days a year and want a 2 hour thrill on local roads on a Sunday, on a regular basis nothing gets close to an RS300 Superlight for the cash. If you want maximum bang for buck at Silverstone, Spa etc, go for GT3.
I haven't taken the plunge yet. I had a trip up to the West coast of Scotland and fell back in love with the GT3. The noise alone could stop me selling and also the current boom in GT3 values has meant I am reluctant to sell. Let hope the bubble doesnt burst!
I am still going to test drive a Caterham when I get some spare time. Revolutions in Perth is my nearest. So who knows maybe once I drive it I might be converted. They also sell Morgans which I have always had a thing for..
I am still going to test drive a Caterham when I get some spare time. Revolutions in Perth is my nearest. So who knows maybe once I drive it I might be converted. They also sell Morgans which I have always had a thing for..
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff