Discussion
sidicks said:
Ryanodine said:
Sidicks, you have already agreed that this is the case, so what do you have issue with?
It other words, for a competent driver, PDK-S will never override the driver's actions.Why would you choose to press the buttons yourself and do it slightly worse?
mollytherocker said:
sidicks said:
Ryanodine said:
Sidicks, you have already agreed that this is the case, so what do you have issue with?
It other words, for a competent driver, PDK-S will never override the driver's actions.Why would you choose to press the buttons yourself and do it slightly worse?
"My car has three pedals...but I like to use all three with one foot only"
PDK is automatic for driving licence purposes.
"FULLY AUTOMATIC SYSTEMS
This type has selector settings for forward and reverse, neutral and/or park. It also has settings which enable the driver to select and retain a particular gear ratio or range of gear ratios, e.g. to obtain engine braking when descending a steep hill, although gear changes are normally made automatically. Most automatics of this type enable the driver to make an immediate change into the lower gear, to obtain extra acceleration, by means of `kick down' or part throttle operation actuated by the accelerator pedal. In nearly all cases the selector lever is mounted on the floor or the steering column in the position normally occupied by the gear lever, but there are exceptions, e.g. a panel of press buttons on the facia.
SEMI-AUTOMATIC SYSTEMS
With these the driver has to select the gear required by movement of the gear lever as with a manually controlled gearbox, but there is no clutch pedal. For driving test and licensing purposes these vehicles are regarded as automatics."
See page 143 of this:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
"FULLY AUTOMATIC SYSTEMS
This type has selector settings for forward and reverse, neutral and/or park. It also has settings which enable the driver to select and retain a particular gear ratio or range of gear ratios, e.g. to obtain engine braking when descending a steep hill, although gear changes are normally made automatically. Most automatics of this type enable the driver to make an immediate change into the lower gear, to obtain extra acceleration, by means of `kick down' or part throttle operation actuated by the accelerator pedal. In nearly all cases the selector lever is mounted on the floor or the steering column in the position normally occupied by the gear lever, but there are exceptions, e.g. a panel of press buttons on the facia.
SEMI-AUTOMATIC SYSTEMS
With these the driver has to select the gear required by movement of the gear lever as with a manually controlled gearbox, but there is no clutch pedal. For driving test and licensing purposes these vehicles are regarded as automatics."
See page 143 of this:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Edited by agtlaw on Sunday 8th June 14:17
agtlaw said:
PDK is automatic for driving licence purposes.
"FULLY AUTOMATIC SYSTEMS
This type has selector settings for forward and reverse, neutral and/or park. It also has settings which enable the driver to select and retain a particular gear ratio or range of gear ratios, e.g. to obtain engine braking when descending a steep hill, although gear changes are normally made automatically. Most automatics of this type enable the driver to make an immediate change into the lower gear, to obtain extra acceleration, by means of `kick down' or part throttle operation actuated by the accelerator pedal. In nearly all cases the selector lever is mounted on the floor or the steering column in the position normally occupied by the gear lever, but there are exceptions, e.g. a panel of press buttons on the facia.
SEMI-AUTOMATIC SYSTEMS
With these the driver has to select the gear required by movement of the gear lever as with a manually controlled gearbox, but there is no clutch pedal. For driving test and licensing purposes these vehicles are regarded as automatics."
See page 143 of this:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
This was never in dispute."FULLY AUTOMATIC SYSTEMS
This type has selector settings for forward and reverse, neutral and/or park. It also has settings which enable the driver to select and retain a particular gear ratio or range of gear ratios, e.g. to obtain engine braking when descending a steep hill, although gear changes are normally made automatically. Most automatics of this type enable the driver to make an immediate change into the lower gear, to obtain extra acceleration, by means of `kick down' or part throttle operation actuated by the accelerator pedal. In nearly all cases the selector lever is mounted on the floor or the steering column in the position normally occupied by the gear lever, but there are exceptions, e.g. a panel of press buttons on the facia.
SEMI-AUTOMATIC SYSTEMS
With these the driver has to select the gear required by movement of the gear lever as with a manually controlled gearbox, but there is no clutch pedal. For driving test and licensing purposes these vehicles are regarded as automatics."
See page 143 of this:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Edited by agtlaw on Sunday 8th June 14:17
mollytherocker said:
Surely a competent driver would learn to utilise the auto mode as its faster. Why not embrace the technology? Is that not why its there?
Why would you choose to press the buttons yourself and do it slightly worse?
I guess it depends whether driver enjoyment is purely about speed for you...Why would you choose to press the buttons yourself and do it slightly worse?
LaSource said:
The problem with this thread (and PH in general) is that objective discussion seems to last 5-6 posts before it degenerates into more confrontational debate.
Its an interesting observation and you are not alone in making it. What makes it curious is that one can reasonably assume that most posters in here (the Porsche forum and this thread) are perfectly capable of dealing with discourse in person; yet online in this environment somehow cannot. I cannot imagine that most posters in here exist in the same way as they proceed through their daily lives. That they engage with such hubris at all opportunities.People seem to enter this forum and suddenly lose the ability to discern or differentiate between objective and subjective; they somehow feel all viewpoints carry even weight; and indeed that an opinion is all that is required to engage in some discussions as a peer. As a result it becomes a dystopia. An aviary full of ceaseless squaking by carrion birds.
It of course can be pleasurable to debate issues of the day. I presume that is why most are here but I see little by way of reasoned debate ever taking place. As you note, whenever a green shoot appears it is quickly trampled underfoot. Replaced by monologues, adversarial positioning and a complete lack of respect or humility. I work in engineering and science and engage in peer review and rigorous debate on a daily basis. I have done so for nearly 2 decades so am no shrinking violet. And yet I am left perpetually flummoxed by what seems to pass for reasoned discussion alongside the aforementioned lack of respect and humility.
Maybe I should have studied in Ethology or a similar field. I may have had some insight to offer instead of an opinion.
Edited by fioran0 on Sunday 8th June 15:01
fioran0
Well said.
I don't know if the symptoms of hubris have worsened on PH, or that it was ever thus but I'm just noticing it more now.
Unfortunately a forum like this gives people the ability to make comments behind a veil with no consideration for general humane, civilised behaviour. It's a lot worse on some of the other sub forums where posts often turn to siege mentality. Hey ho, anyway back to the fact that the 6RS is a s
t car.
Well said.
I don't know if the symptoms of hubris have worsened on PH, or that it was ever thus but I'm just noticing it more now.
Unfortunately a forum like this gives people the ability to make comments behind a veil with no consideration for general humane, civilised behaviour. It's a lot worse on some of the other sub forums where posts often turn to siege mentality. Hey ho, anyway back to the fact that the 6RS is a s
t car. FWIW, it seems to me that there is a great deal of difference between the moderately competent drivers, such as myself, and those people with skills sufficient to test the limits of the various cars in a highly skilled and controlled manner.
So, my observations are just those of the moderately competent.
- Manual is manual, I have driven it since the age of 12, can do all the normal stuff, H&T and so on. I will always have a traditional manual car as I do now.
- PDK (for me) seems to more of a dual proposition. On a track I use it in manual mode and it does not shift for me, so the auto function is more of a failsafe, which of course seems to me like ABS , traction control and so on. These are functions that intervene when you blow it. Evidently it is also an automatic. I am not of course disputing AGTlaw's legal definition.
- I should note that I have not driven a PDK GT3, but at least in my case I did not find that I was less in control of the car than in my own manual cars. I also understand that PDK can shift better than I can, but that is not how I choose to shift on a track. As such I will get the RS.
- For people driving at the limit of the car I have no doubt that the answers might be completely different.
So, my observations are just those of the moderately competent.
- Manual is manual, I have driven it since the age of 12, can do all the normal stuff, H&T and so on. I will always have a traditional manual car as I do now.
- PDK (for me) seems to more of a dual proposition. On a track I use it in manual mode and it does not shift for me, so the auto function is more of a failsafe, which of course seems to me like ABS , traction control and so on. These are functions that intervene when you blow it. Evidently it is also an automatic. I am not of course disputing AGTlaw's legal definition.
- I should note that I have not driven a PDK GT3, but at least in my case I did not find that I was less in control of the car than in my own manual cars. I also understand that PDK can shift better than I can, but that is not how I choose to shift on a track. As such I will get the RS.
- For people driving at the limit of the car I have no doubt that the answers might be completely different.
agtlaw said:
PDK is automatic for driving licence purposes.
"FULLY AUTOMATIC SYSTEMS
This type has selector settings for forward and reverse, neutral and/or park. It also has settings which enable the driver to select and retain a particular gear ratio or range of gear ratios, e.g. to obtain engine braking when descending a steep hill, although gear changes are normally made automatically. Most automatics of this type enable the driver to make an immediate change into the lower gear, to obtain extra acceleration, by means of `kick down' or part throttle operation actuated by the accelerator pedal. In nearly all cases the selector lever is mounted on the floor or the steering column in the position normally occupied by the gear lever, but there are exceptions, e.g. a panel of press buttons on the facia.
SEMI-AUTOMATIC SYSTEMS
With these the driver has to select the gear required by movement of the gear lever as with a manually controlled gearbox, but there is no clutch pedal. For driving test and licensing purposes these vehicles are regarded as automatics."
See page 143 of this:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
thank you for this "FULLY AUTOMATIC SYSTEMS
This type has selector settings for forward and reverse, neutral and/or park. It also has settings which enable the driver to select and retain a particular gear ratio or range of gear ratios, e.g. to obtain engine braking when descending a steep hill, although gear changes are normally made automatically. Most automatics of this type enable the driver to make an immediate change into the lower gear, to obtain extra acceleration, by means of `kick down' or part throttle operation actuated by the accelerator pedal. In nearly all cases the selector lever is mounted on the floor or the steering column in the position normally occupied by the gear lever, but there are exceptions, e.g. a panel of press buttons on the facia.
SEMI-AUTOMATIC SYSTEMS
With these the driver has to select the gear required by movement of the gear lever as with a manually controlled gearbox, but there is no clutch pedal. For driving test and licensing purposes these vehicles are regarded as automatics."
See page 143 of this:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Edited by agtlaw on Sunday 8th June 14:17
RDMcG said:
FWIW, it seems to me that there is a great deal of difference between the moderately competent drivers, such as myself, and those people with skills sufficient to test the limits of the various cars in a highly skilled and controlled manner.
So, my observations are just those of the moderately competent.
- Manual is manual, I have driven it since the age of 12, can do all the normal stuff, H&T and so on. I will always have a traditional manual car as I do now.
- PDK (for me) seems to more of a dual proposition. On a track I use it in manual mode and it does not shift for me, so the auto function is more of a failsafe, which of course seems to me like ABS , traction control and so on. These are functions that intervene when you blow it. Evidently it is also an automatic. I am not of course disputing AGTlaw's legal definition.
- I should note that I have not driven a PDK GT3, but at least in my case I did not find that I was less in control of the car than in my own manual cars. I also understand that PDK can shift better than I can, but that is not how I choose to shift on a track. As such I will get the RS.
- For people driving at the limit of the car I have no doubt that the answers might be completely different.
I agree with almost everything you say, but am confused by the comment highlighted in bold - isn't the 991 GT3 RS gearbox likely to be exactly the same as the GT3?So, my observations are just those of the moderately competent.
- Manual is manual, I have driven it since the age of 12, can do all the normal stuff, H&T and so on. I will always have a traditional manual car as I do now.
- PDK (for me) seems to more of a dual proposition. On a track I use it in manual mode and it does not shift for me, so the auto function is more of a failsafe, which of course seems to me like ABS , traction control and so on. These are functions that intervene when you blow it. Evidently it is also an automatic. I am not of course disputing AGTlaw's legal definition.
- I should note that I have not driven a PDK GT3, but at least in my case I did not find that I was less in control of the car than in my own manual cars. I also understand that PDK can shift better than I can, but that is not how I choose to shift on a track. As such I will get the RS.
- For people driving at the limit of the car I have no doubt that the answers might be completely different.
sidicks said:
I agree with almost everything you say, but am confused by the comment highlighted in bold - isn't the 991 GT3 RS gearbox likely to be exactly the same as the GT3?
I have heard it is a bit sharper, and I tend to believe the source. Hard to know in this world of conflicting rumours.Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff