Best place to start in search for 'classic' 911

[Lungauer]

I'm thinking of selling my GTS manual and getting an older (and probably slower and less reliable) 911. I am, however, hopelessly confused about the various models and what to look out for.

Could someone advise the best place to research the various options? I'm thinking pre 993, preferably without the big bumpers, with a budget of around £55k. Would like a Singer but unfortunately my funds won't run to one of those.

Thanks in advance.

[IMI A]

Pre 89 cars such as the SC and 3.2C are pretty reliable. No power steering or ABS though and they rot. 964s have ABS and PAS but are less reliable and also rust. For your budget you'll get a beauty. I would also consider a 993. I'd buy the best example of any of the aforementioned that becomes available.

Williams Crawford, Hexagon, 911 Virgin, Philip Raby and JZM are all worth calling as a starting point. Avantgarde have a mint silver 3.2C they want £50k for. Coys also have a mint silver 3.2 cab SSE. I'd drive all of them and then decide. The pre 89 cars can be a bit of a culture shock if you've never experienced one before and are used to modern cars (in a good way in my view).

[drmark]

Lungauer said:

I'm thinking of selling my GTS manual and getting an older (and probably slower and less reliable) 911. I am, however, hopelessly confused about the various models and what to look out for.

Could someone advise the best place to research the various options? I'm thinking pre 993, preferably without the big bumpers, with a budget of around £55k. Would like a Singer but unfortunately my funds won't run to one of those.

Thanks in advance.

Difficult if you want to avoid all big bumpers cars as you are looking at early seventies cars (and earlier) and the best ones are way more than your GTS is worth. I have had most - including a 2.2s, 3.2, 964 and 993 - and would plump for a 2wd 964. As close to the classic look as modern Porsches get. PAS and ABS useful. And less rust than 3.2 / SC. I bought a refurbished 3.2 last year and it was a mistake to go back - very disappointing. Sold it within a few months despite having 15K worth of work done.

[thegoose]

I'd suggest something like a Paul Stephens back-dated 964 would be worth looking at if you can find a used one. Freshly built used be more like £70k but as donor cars are getting scarcer and dearer that may have changed.

[bigunit00]

Get something like this and save the £20k for something else

http://www.eporsch.co.uk/C2CRed27.htm

Or maybe add £10k and go for something like this

http://www.juliensumner.com/full-details.php?code=...

[Koln-RS]

£55k is a lot of money, and would get you one of the very best, low mileage, desirable spec 3.2 Carreras, 964s or 993s - with some change - and the best of these models are a fairly safe place to put your money, but still a great drive.

IMO the 'back-dates', 're-creations', 'replicas', 'hybrids', etc are a very risky area and not 'classic 911s' - they are a pastiche and far easier to buy and spend money on than they are to sell.

[mollytherocker]

993 Carrera S

[Adz The Rat]

Speak to Mark at SCOM, Im sure he will be able to advise you and help source a suitable car.

[mollytherocker]

Adz The Rat said:

Speak to Mark at SCOM, Im sure he will be able to advise you and help source a suitable car.

I have no doubt he will!

[GT3-RS]

olly22n said:

Adz The Rat said:

Speak to Mark at SCOM, Im sure he will be able to advise you and help source a suitable car.

£55k budget remember

£55k Budget not £155K......too right......LMAO......try GT Classics (Paul Mac) he's usually got some old clunkers kicking around his Shed http://www.gtclassics.co.uk/

[Lungauer]

drmark said:

Difficult if you want to avoid all big bumpers cars as you are looking at early seventies cars (and earlier) and the best ones are way more than your GTS is worth. I have had most - including a 2.2s, 3.2, 964 and 993 - and would plump for a 2wd 964. As close to the classic look as modern Porsches get. PAS and ABS useful. And less rust than 3.2 / SC. I bought a refurbished 3.2 last year and it was a mistake to go back - very disappointing. Sold it within a few months despite having 15K worth of work done.

Thanks all for the replies. drmark you obviously have experience in spades and I take your point about my budget not stretching to the earlier cars. Are you suggesting it might not be the best idea to go back to a 964? Is it better to take off the rose tinted specs and stick with the GTS, which to be fair is not exactly dull.

[cuse92]

Lungauer said:

Thanks all for the replies. drmark you obviously have experience in spades and I take your point about my budget not stretching to the earlier cars. Are you suggesting it might not be the best idea to go back to a 964? Is it better to take off the rose tinted specs and stick with the GTS, which to be fair is not exactly dull.

I think he was saying it was a mistake to go back to the 3.2 after having the 964. I went from a 997 back to a 964 (Paul Stephens car) myself 6 years ago. I thought the newer car was too good at UK speeds, and an aircooled car is fun and an event even at low speeds. I'd look at a 964 if you are serious, you get the build quality, feel and look of the older cars, but PAS and ABS and a reasonably modern car you can use everyday. You could get a very tidy one for a lot less than your budget, and there is huge scope for personalisation if you'd like. I'd speak to Paul as well as he stocks a lot of aircooled cars (but you won't get a PS car for £70k now unless it is an older build and knackered so I'd forget about that). I'd say if you've got the itch, go for it. You can always go back to a GTS later, and in the meantime you'll be going from a depreciating asset to one that is at least holding its value and probably appreciating.

[cuse92]

Koln-RS said:

IMO the 'back-dates', 're-creations', 'replicas', 'hybrids', etc are a very risky area and not 'classic 911s' - they are a pastiche and far easier to buy and spend money on than they are to sell.

If they are done right, this absolutely isn't the case. The pool of potential buyers is almost certainly smaller than for OEM models, but there are also a lot fewer properly executed backdates. I'm not even selling mine, and I've has several unsolicited offers so far this summer to buy my car at prices that would net me a nice profit. Including two while it was sitting in the Porsche paddock amongst several hundred classic 911s at LeMans Classic last weekend. Paul will buy his back from you and has absolutely no problem selling them on quickly, with the possible exception of the purple 330R trackday car.

[squirdan]

for £55k there is a very nice looking RS replica in the PH classified...not a backdate AND with a potentially very valuable engine. And in a cool colour. Backdates should not be confused with period correct replica's..

I have a 996.2 GT3 and a 72 2.7 hotrod and with the exception of trackdays and very hot weather the hotrod is more fun, more of an event, far cooler, and elicits a far more positive reaction from other road users.

nothing wrong at all with your idea.. I say go the whole hog and get a pre IB car

[Lungauer]

This whole replica thing adds to the confusion. Would I be right in thinking that if you take a 964 (the basis for a Singer car) and de-bumper it and generally make it look like something it isn't it will go down in value, despite the money spent on it? If so is it worth getting one that is already a replica, providing it done well and with the proper parts?

[squirdan]

to be honest you have to spend a fortune to make a 964 look like a pre IB 911

hence Singer and PS prices

3 simple examples... 16 vs 15 wheels / totally different bonnet (longhood) / the rear bumper and valance shape

otherwise you end up with a minger (plenty on ebay) and as you say probably worth less than a mint 964. maybe a 993...fit a ducktail and fuchs type wheels and you capture some of the look...someone on here did that with a nice grey one

if you are not doing lots of miles then a pre 73 car is perfectly usable...just took mine to CLM and back. perfect for sunny sundays, special events etc.

for pre IB the mecca is the DDK forum

[mudy]

A 3.2 or any IB for that matter can be used a daily - plenty of people on here have and continue to do so - I did it for 2 years with my '88 turbo and it was a joy - in London - in the rush hour.

OP, reading your email, I would also suggest 964 is the way to go, or 993 - plenty of them available at the £40k mark in beautiful condition, but as so0meone said earlier go out and try before you buy!

[Lost soul]

IMI A said:

Coys also have a mint silver 3.2 cab SSE.

I was ridiculed on here by "an expert" for suggesting such a car existed , even though a friend owned one

[Lungauer]

On the subject of recreations, any one care to venture an opinion based on the following description:

...an outstanding recreation of Porsche's 1973 Carrera 2.7 RS, based on a 3.0SC donor car that was first registered in 1983. The car was converted 18 months ago by 911 Rennsport, and has covered just 3000 miles since. The base car had just one owner until 2010, with one further owner prior to it being converted. The car then underwent a full strip-down, with genuine steel wings fitted front and rear, as well as the correct lightweight 'long' bonnet, ducktail and RS bumpers. Mechanically, the car has been fully checked over, whilst the engine and gearbox were rebuilt shortly before conversion. Within the conversion, SS1 stainless-steel heat exchangers and a twin-pipe stainless exhaust were fitted. It also has factory Bilstein suspension on fast road settings. The interior has also been backdated retaining the black leather rear seats, with new period RS front seats and a Momo Prototipo steering wheel, whilst lightweight door panels have also been included. The electric windows and sunroof have been retained for comfort with the surrounds polished as they were on the original RS’s, whilst the door handles have been re-chromed. The exterior has been finished to a high standard in the original 1973 Porsche Blood Orange with contrasting black decals, with the correct Fuchs 7×16 wheels on the front and 9×16 rear wheels delivering the power. Other detail work has been carried out to ensure period correctness, including an age related '2.7L' plate that comes with the car. Featured in Total 911 magazine... also probably a fair bit quicker than the real thing... drives beautifully.

[Fattrader]

If it is helpful I run a GT3Mk1 and a 1976 Carrera 3.0. Both in mint condition. at 50+K you have a good budget for a nice air cooled car. In comparison driving old with new. They are very different cars. Both brilliant fun but in very different ways. I have not driven anything too modern so I can not compare with a GTS. The air cooled Carrera 3.0 is so responsive and is so much fun to drive you feel everything and the noise of the engine..... It also looks amazing and the design along with build quality is excellent. I am not a big one for recreations and would buy the best you can afford.

Steve Winter at Jaz knows his stuff concerning older air cooled cars and I would chat to him.