the new GT4 and spec's, what do YOU want ?
Discussion
What rubbish !
The GTS weighs more than a standard S, how is that the new R ?
at least the R was lighter and had buckets as standard.
To spec a GTS to be more R like costs over 70k and it still don't feel as good.
The R got a few bad reviews because people like Harris wanted some cup racer !!! And instead of saying how good it was said it is not hard core enough !!!
But the R did win drivers car of the year in auto car, so not all the reviews were lack lustre.
I only think now the cars finding the right drivers. Nice spec manuals get snapped up.
The GTS weighs more than a standard S, how is that the new R ?
at least the R was lighter and had buckets as standard.
To spec a GTS to be more R like costs over 70k and it still don't feel as good.
The R got a few bad reviews because people like Harris wanted some cup racer !!! And instead of saying how good it was said it is not hard core enough !!!
But the R did win drivers car of the year in auto car, so not all the reviews were lack lustre.
I only think now the cars finding the right drivers. Nice spec manuals get snapped up.
mrdemon said:
What rubbish !
The GTS weighs more than a standard S, how is that the new R ?
at least the R was lighter and had buckets as standard.
To spec a GTS to be more R like costs over 70k and it still don't feel as good.
The R got a few bad reviews because people like Harris wanted some cup racer !!! And instead of saying how good it was said it is not hard core enough !!!
But the R did win drivers car of the year in auto car, so not all the reviews were lack lustre.
I only think now the cars finding the right drivers. Nice spec manuals get snapped up.
Not rubbish in factThe GTS weighs more than a standard S, how is that the new R ?
at least the R was lighter and had buckets as standard.
To spec a GTS to be more R like costs over 70k and it still don't feel as good.
The R got a few bad reviews because people like Harris wanted some cup racer !!! And instead of saying how good it was said it is not hard core enough !!!
But the R did win drivers car of the year in auto car, so not all the reviews were lack lustre.
I only think now the cars finding the right drivers. Nice spec manuals get snapped up.
My point was the R maybe shouldn't have been called the R in the first place - then people wouldn't be so hung up and defensive on a name - and expectations would have been correctly set. I did call out in my post that yes there was the lighter doors - but the rest of major weight savings got added back in by most buyers anyway - A/C and PCM. Bucket Seats were standard but again could be optioned on non R's - yes the wheels were shared from the spyder.
I didn't dis the R - far from it - I know its a great car - I just agree that the name may have been misused - but thats Porsche's prerogative.
Feel
Steering - already accepted that there is a loss with the new EPAS.
Handling - Other than journos - nobody has driven a GTS on the Sports Suspension, not many people have specced it and posted their views on PH - but common knowledge is the x73 is the R suspension applied for the 981 - have you driven any 981 on sports suspension? You'll agree that the 40% stiffer chassis is a better platform to start with surely....
Back on topic - the point is what do I want a 'GT4' to be? - If they call it the GT4 then I think it should be a track focussed car - Exige V6 Cup like - and it should be an homologation of a race car that Porsche enter into a series. This is the only way it can deserve and justify the name in my opinion and as said by a few others.
c380BHP from N/A
Uprated Brakes
Lightened Interior
Aero Components
Revised Suspension with full adjustability.
For the ultimate expression for the road in 2014+ you have the GTS.
If they call it something else, then it can be whatever they want it to be.
If they reuse R for example... it will then be the second of a new reinvented line.
mrdemon said:
What rubbish !
The GTS weighs more than a standard S, how is that the new R ?
at least the R was lighter and had buckets as standard.
To spec a GTS to be more R like costs over 70k and it still don't feel as good.
The R got a few bad reviews because people like Harris wanted some cup racer !!! And instead of saying how good it was said it is not hard core enough !!!
But the R did win drivers car of the year in auto car, so not all the reviews were lack lustre.
I only think now the cars finding the right drivers. Nice spec manuals get snapped up.
Buckets can be spec at a cost. The R was lighter by 55kgs than regular cs mainly from stereo and ac and buckets plus sound deadening removal. Most owners re spec the stero and ac, you did too.The GTS weighs more than a standard S, how is that the new R ?
at least the R was lighter and had buckets as standard.
To spec a GTS to be more R like costs over 70k and it still don't feel as good.
The R got a few bad reviews because people like Harris wanted some cup racer !!! And instead of saying how good it was said it is not hard core enough !!!
But the R did win drivers car of the year in auto car, so not all the reviews were lack lustre.
I only think now the cars finding the right drivers. Nice spec manuals get snapped up.
So I challenge the actual we right loss. It nevertheless does not detract from what is a great drivers car. Is it better than the new gts? I dun know. Cost aside, with the right spec, I think they are fairly evenly matched. Cr has a better badge.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
So like all the reviews it is what people focused on, it should not have been called a R.Ruined sales imo with the bad press, but better now as smaller numbers and holding price.
Gt4 is a made up name ATM by said press, not Porsche. I still bet it will be a GTS with aero kit and some weight loss and the token 10bhp upgrade.
Gotta be lightweight, can only be too heavy, buckets, cage, upgraded susp and lowered, big brakes, lots of alcantara, like to think another last one with a freely high revving engine before turbos march in. Do actually look forward to see how turbos will work in sportier toy cars, just like yet another n/a engine before it's all over.
Wonder why anyone would think GT3's or Stradale/Scuderia for that matter are not good road cars, they are great little run around toys that also can be used as track day toys. On track they are not really quick compared to equal proper race cars, but great fun anyway on track anyway. Racing round public roads is idiotic, you can not drive any car close to or on the limit on public roads.
Before we got kids, I used a GT3 all year round daily, it had its regular run round Spa and Zandvoort as well. Never had a track modded GT3 having the better of my pretty standard GT3's. Most chaps showing up on track days, don't really have the skills, but think it's all about upgrade this and that. Pretty much same sorry as thinking changing golf equipment every other day is gonna make them better golfers.
Wonder why anyone would think GT3's or Stradale/Scuderia for that matter are not good road cars, they are great little run around toys that also can be used as track day toys. On track they are not really quick compared to equal proper race cars, but great fun anyway on track anyway. Racing round public roads is idiotic, you can not drive any car close to or on the limit on public roads.
Before we got kids, I used a GT3 all year round daily, it had its regular run round Spa and Zandvoort as well. Never had a track modded GT3 having the better of my pretty standard GT3's. Most chaps showing up on track days, don't really have the skills, but think it's all about upgrade this and that. Pretty much same sorry as thinking changing golf equipment every other day is gonna make them better golfers.
the 'R' lacked the engine required to justify the name, no matter how good the chassis was, for a run out special it was more like a parts bin special than a bespoke piece of kit and hence why it should have been given a different badge, whether that should have been GTS or Club Sport is up for debate.
The GT4 just needs to resolve the main problem I have with the GT3 as in, i appreciate what the GT3 brings to the table for a lot of people but, I don't want to own one.
As long as Porsche Motorsport have thrown everything they can at the new car (They are working to a tighter budget than the gt3) and not been held back because of the Porsche marketing committee I will be happy.
From the pictures and rumours it looks more like the former than the latter and that is why people are excited.
The GT4 just needs to resolve the main problem I have with the GT3 as in, i appreciate what the GT3 brings to the table for a lot of people but, I don't want to own one.
As long as Porsche Motorsport have thrown everything they can at the new car (They are working to a tighter budget than the gt3) and not been held back because of the Porsche marketing committee I will be happy.
From the pictures and rumours it looks more like the former than the latter and that is why people are excited.
Edited by Carl_Docklands on Sunday 27th July 09:59
When you look at the run out 987.1 s sport then you have to think how lucky we were to even get the R lol
New ARB, passive dampers and a 1 off 55mm exhaust, it's better than people make out and no parts bin car like the S sport and rs60 were.
Put 370 Bhp, 6 pots and gt3 lca on the R and it would be perfect for me.
Now I am looking out the Porsche brand for my next car as Porsche is no longer a drivers car. They can make more on the Macan and have 2 year waiting lists for a s
tty SUV.
New ARB, passive dampers and a 1 off 55mm exhaust, it's better than people make out and no parts bin car like the S sport and rs60 were.
Put 370 Bhp, 6 pots and gt3 lca on the R and it would be perfect for me.
Now I am looking out the Porsche brand for my next car as Porsche is no longer a drivers car. They can make more on the Macan and have 2 year waiting lists for a s
tty SUV. Edited by mrdemon on Sunday 27th July 10:42
mrdemon said:
Now I am looking out the Porsche brand for my next car as Porsche is no longer a drivers car. They can make more on the Macan and have 2 year waiting lists for a stty SUV.
Have you changed your mind on the GT4 purely on the speculation on an internet forum over the last week? tty SUV. Edited by mrdemon on Sunday 27th July 10:42
If so you really are a strange individual.
We have all expressed an opinion on what we would like to see: you, me and many others.
Porsche will produce what make sense for them and VAG as a whole. What we think will have very impact on this, probably none at all.
I disagree with those looking for a race car as much as those looking for a GTS +10%.
Let's all wait and see what happens over the next six months then make up our minds when there is some more concrete info.....
MrD, you are times too much!
Porsche has offended your sensibilities by producing SUVs that, by all objective measures, do an incredible job of carrying some handling ability to the class.
So you want a brand that fits with your desire for sporting purism...and you fancy an Audi. A brand famous for dead steering, cynically exploiting image-conscious idiots and selling them underpowered diesel crapboxes for £35k; a brand whose best-selling 'sports car' is a FWD Golf with a body kit that is also, brilliantly, available as a diesel.
Go purist, go Audi.
Porsche has offended your sensibilities by producing SUVs that, by all objective measures, do an incredible job of carrying some handling ability to the class.
So you want a brand that fits with your desire for sporting purism...and you fancy an Audi. A brand famous for dead steering, cynically exploiting image-conscious idiots and selling them underpowered diesel crapboxes for £35k; a brand whose best-selling 'sports car' is a FWD Golf with a body kit that is also, brilliantly, available as a diesel.
Go purist, go Audi.
I would be looking at the R8 V10 plus
a car which still has hydrolic steering
has a real diff
Passive dampers
and a NA V10
and none of this braking of inside wheels or any such daftness !!!
so you can take your Anti Audi comments some where else :-p
when you starting thing about buying a car for 85K then there are options
as for aero on a Cayman, not needed.
a car which still has hydrolic steering
has a real diff
Passive dampers
and a NA V10
and none of this braking of inside wheels or any such daftness !!!
so you can take your Anti Audi comments some where else :-p
when you starting thing about buying a car for 85K then there are options
as for aero on a Cayman, not needed.
Edited by mrdemon on Monday 28th July 09:51
I have had CSL, Nobles, Lotus, GT3's etc etc people just like a change and cars don't last forever
I also have my Spyder which is like the R but a lot lighter, (some people already say why have both)
nothing strange, people change cars, I have done 20k in the R and had it 1.5 years now.
I am still going to get the same drive from the Spyder :-)_
not saying I am buying the V10 plus but it's a car on my radar for a daily, and have a test drive booked this week, I have driven the v8 and v10 and not bought either, lets see what this plus brings to the party.
I also have my Spyder which is like the R but a lot lighter, (some people already say why have both)
nothing strange, people change cars, I have done 20k in the R and had it 1.5 years now.
I am still going to get the same drive from the Spyder :-)_
not saying I am buying the V10 plus but it's a car on my radar for a daily, and have a test drive booked this week, I have driven the v8 and v10 and not bought either, lets see what this plus brings to the party.
fioran0 said:
It is interesting reading through this thread and I suspect goes some way to explaining the reason for the current 991 GT3 (in a non judgemental sense, thats not a dig or back handed snipe)
While always dangerous to assume that any internet thread/pub chat is an accurate barometer of current climate there is certainly a theme here that was mirrored in threads relating to the GT3 too.
Further evidence of the schism amongst the Porscheanista - or the marginalisation of a customer base that is no doubt demanding and expensive to feed?
That there is not a bunch of people shouting for the opportunity to have a proper balls to the wall cayman is disappointing but it is not perhaps a surprise. The voices were fairly scant even in the GT3 threads after all.
What is a disappointment and a surprise is the lack of anyone asking for a car that addresses the glaring flaws present in the cayman platform. No one?
While arguments over spec/hardcore-ness will always exist and remain unbridgeable (each wants what he wants after all) I really thought that owners and fans would have been pretty unanimous in their calls for addressing areas of the platform that are crying out for improvement. The prospect of a special cayman offering the prospect to give it some special stuff under the skin.
These improvements would after all transcend all talk relating to more superficial spec matters providing almost universal improvement.
The most powerful engine in the world will fail to address almost any of these shortcomings, in fact only serving to highlight them further.
For my own part, whether this will be Porsches push towards increasing its (sizeable) customer motorsports revenues by getting some presence in the GT4 series finally (by providing a new cayman for homologation after the flop of the first attempt) or whether its simply a nomenclature and nothing else still remains the most interesting question I have.
It's a great point Fiorano. In my case, I think that there are certain things that I'd like to see on the platform but I'm not technical enough to know whether they'll make enough of a difference. I know what I want to feel but don't know how to describe it in technical terms. For example I did think that the new Alfa 4C with a nicer engine and a manual 'box would be an amazing car for me but even though the chassis spec sounded good to me (carbon tub, double wishbones all round etc), it clearly hasn't been executed very well or I simply don't understand what is required to make a truly communicative and focused chassis. So, I wouldn't know how to let Porsche know what it was I want from the GT4. What I do know, is that although the R is a very nice car and fun to drive, it could be a lot better than it is. What errors would you like to see corrected on the platform?While always dangerous to assume that any internet thread/pub chat is an accurate barometer of current climate there is certainly a theme here that was mirrored in threads relating to the GT3 too.
Further evidence of the schism amongst the Porscheanista - or the marginalisation of a customer base that is no doubt demanding and expensive to feed?
That there is not a bunch of people shouting for the opportunity to have a proper balls to the wall cayman is disappointing but it is not perhaps a surprise. The voices were fairly scant even in the GT3 threads after all.
What is a disappointment and a surprise is the lack of anyone asking for a car that addresses the glaring flaws present in the cayman platform. No one?
While arguments over spec/hardcore-ness will always exist and remain unbridgeable (each wants what he wants after all) I really thought that owners and fans would have been pretty unanimous in their calls for addressing areas of the platform that are crying out for improvement. The prospect of a special cayman offering the prospect to give it some special stuff under the skin.
These improvements would after all transcend all talk relating to more superficial spec matters providing almost universal improvement.
The most powerful engine in the world will fail to address almost any of these shortcomings, in fact only serving to highlight them further.
For my own part, whether this will be Porsches push towards increasing its (sizeable) customer motorsports revenues by getting some presence in the GT4 series finally (by providing a new cayman for homologation after the flop of the first attempt) or whether its simply a nomenclature and nothing else still remains the most interesting question I have.
Edited by fioran0 on Saturday 26th July 12:28
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