Has anyone changed their 9x7 for a 993/964 or older?
Discussion
Yep, sure have.
Had a Boxster S, then a 450bhp 993 Turbo, then on to a 997 GT3.
In March this year, sold the GT3 and went to a much older 911, see pic in my profile.
It's just so much more fun more of the time. It's quite heavily modified, all the work was done by Tuthills and it's been completely rebuilt and had new paint so it's like a new car.
Absolutely love it. The sensations it gives are just wonderful. I felt that in the GT you had to be doing silly speeds before you even got any where near its limits. In the replacement it's much easier to get to the limit at lower speeds and therefore have more fun, more of the time.
What do I miss? Satnav. A/C. That's about it to be honest.
Drive a few. Buy the best you can afford. I personally don't regret it but they're not for everyone.
Good luck! The search is all part of the fun!
Had a Boxster S, then a 450bhp 993 Turbo, then on to a 997 GT3.
In March this year, sold the GT3 and went to a much older 911, see pic in my profile.
It's just so much more fun more of the time. It's quite heavily modified, all the work was done by Tuthills and it's been completely rebuilt and had new paint so it's like a new car.
Absolutely love it. The sensations it gives are just wonderful. I felt that in the GT you had to be doing silly speeds before you even got any where near its limits. In the replacement it's much easier to get to the limit at lower speeds and therefore have more fun, more of the time.
What do I miss? Satnav. A/C. That's about it to be honest.
Drive a few. Buy the best you can afford. I personally don't regret it but they're not for everyone.
Good luck! The search is all part of the fun!
jackal said:
Ive done 5 big road trips in the last 3 years and id say, for the most fun, the very best 911's are a sorted 993 and a sorted 964, no question.
Some of the older cars are as much fun arguably but then at times, not quick enough and not robust enough either.
Some of the newer cars are fun too but you need to be going so much faster to achieve that and ultimately they are not as much fun quite so often. The pleasure derived rom their controls also takes a significant hit.
Its nice to own and try all flavours of course but for smiles per mile i would say the 93 and 64 are the sweet spot and will never be bettered.
Thanks. I was hoping you'd comment. Some of the older cars are as much fun arguably but then at times, not quick enough and not robust enough either.
Some of the newer cars are fun too but you need to be going so much faster to achieve that and ultimately they are not as much fun quite so often. The pleasure derived rom their controls also takes a significant hit.
Its nice to own and try all flavours of course but for smiles per mile i would say the 93 and 64 are the sweet spot and will never be bettered.
Wozy68 said:
I wouldn't be bothered with mileage either. I was looking through the window of a parked 993 the other day and the mileage was at 99930 ..... I'm guessing the owner was sweating a little, basically it will be worthless in less than 100 miles time.
Keep an open mind with the non vario v vario engines. I tried a Vario first and to me it felt a little too accomplished but still fab.
In the end I bought a non vario car, for no other reason than the right 993 spec/history for me came along and it happened to have the earlier engine. What I do like about the non vario cars though, is the shove you get at around 5K RPM, the 993 just seems to really take off, and I love it
The greatest thing about a 993 compared to the 964 is that NVH in the 993 is on a different level compared to the 964. You can't make the 964 any easier to live with, but you can make a 993 more 'sporty'.
Thank you. Keep an open mind with the non vario v vario engines. I tried a Vario first and to me it felt a little too accomplished but still fab.
In the end I bought a non vario car, for no other reason than the right 993 spec/history for me came along and it happened to have the earlier engine. What I do like about the non vario cars though, is the shove you get at around 5K RPM, the 993 just seems to really take off, and I love it
The greatest thing about a 993 compared to the 964 is that NVH in the 993 is on a different level compared to the 964. You can't make the 964 any easier to live with, but you can make a 993 more 'sporty'.
SimC said:
Went from a 997 gts to a 964. Had them both for a couple of months and the gts didn't get a look in. After driving the 964 for a year tinkering and improving,went to Le Mans in a mates 997 sport classic. It was beautiful to look at but boring unless you were on it at silly speeds. Too refined.
Try one and unless you need to do high mileage you won't look back.
Try one and unless you need to do high mileage you won't look back.
MrVert said:
Yep, sure have.
Had a Boxster S, then a 450bhp 993 Turbo, then on to a 997 GT3.
In March this year, sold the GT3 and went to a much older 911, see pic in my profile.
It's just so much more fun more of the time. It's quite heavily modified, all the work was done by Tuthills and it's been completely rebuilt and had new paint so it's like a new car.
Absolutely love it. The sensations it gives are just wonderful. I felt that in the GT you had to be doing silly speeds before you even got any where near its limits. In the replacement it's much easier to get to the limit at lower speeds and therefore have more fun, more of the time.
What do I miss? Satnav. A/C. That's about it to be honest.
Drive a few. Buy the best you can afford. I personally don't regret it but they're not for everyone.
Good luck! The search is all part of the fun!
Thanks. Had a Boxster S, then a 450bhp 993 Turbo, then on to a 997 GT3.
In March this year, sold the GT3 and went to a much older 911, see pic in my profile.
It's just so much more fun more of the time. It's quite heavily modified, all the work was done by Tuthills and it's been completely rebuilt and had new paint so it's like a new car.
Absolutely love it. The sensations it gives are just wonderful. I felt that in the GT you had to be doing silly speeds before you even got any where near its limits. In the replacement it's much easier to get to the limit at lower speeds and therefore have more fun, more of the time.
What do I miss? Satnav. A/C. That's about it to be honest.
Drive a few. Buy the best you can afford. I personally don't regret it but they're not for everyone.
Good luck! The search is all part of the fun!
All of the comments so far are getting me very excited about trying a 993 and a 964, particularly a 993.
I thought for years that what I wanted out of a car was rampant straight-line acceleration in an unassuming shell. That's how I ended up working my way through a succession of progressively more powerful saloons and estates.
But within a few weeks of buying each car I'd be frustrated with some aspect of it and I'd already be browsing the classifieds and scouring owners' forums for its replacement.
The main reason that I'm thinking about changing this time is because I'll have a bit of money to put into a car (and I might not be able to do that again for a while) that I'm hoping to keep for a good while.
The Cayman S is quick enough for me and it's really good fun at road speeds but I'd like more noise, more immediacy, more involvement...
To refer back to my original points...
I might be way off on this but I'm not sure the Cayman R will be different enough to what I've got now to warrant changing it.
The escalating price of 997 GT3s (and comments I've read from owners like MrVert above about how fast you have to be going to explore the car's limits) are putting them out of reach anyway.
So that leaves me with modifying my Cayman S or getting an older car.
Thank you all again for taking the time to respond. These are exactly the kind of replies I was hoping for.
I’ve had 911s since the mid ‘80s, through to the present models, inc two 964 C2s and two 993 C2s - all bought new and each used as my main car. In fact, I went to the launch of the 993 in Spain.
Each new 911 derivative has been an improvement over the last, but I still have enormous affection for the earlier models, and my life would not be complete without an aircooled 911 in the garage.
I can’t tell you what might suit you, but IMO the 993 is the best variant for the traditional, original ‘911 feel’ with most modern conveniences. And, the two nicest examples I ever drove were, interestingly, 6-spd, C4, Variorams. Both were narrow body coupes - one I drove on road and track some 10 years ago, and then another very recently. Both felt very tight and together with a very well connected front end, and as much fun on the road as any GT3.
Of course there will be some compromises, going back 15 -20 years in time, but if you buy well and look after it you should have a lot of fun and not lose money.
Each new 911 derivative has been an improvement over the last, but I still have enormous affection for the earlier models, and my life would not be complete without an aircooled 911 in the garage.
I can’t tell you what might suit you, but IMO the 993 is the best variant for the traditional, original ‘911 feel’ with most modern conveniences. And, the two nicest examples I ever drove were, interestingly, 6-spd, C4, Variorams. Both were narrow body coupes - one I drove on road and track some 10 years ago, and then another very recently. Both felt very tight and together with a very well connected front end, and as much fun on the road as any GT3.
Of course there will be some compromises, going back 15 -20 years in time, but if you buy well and look after it you should have a lot of fun and not lose money.
Geneve said:
I can’t tell you what might suit you, but IMO the 993 is the best variant for the traditional, original ‘911 feel’ with most modern conveniences. And, the two nicest examples I ever drove were, interestingly, 6-spd, C4, Variorams. Both were narrow body coupes - one I drove on road and track some 10 years ago, and then another very recently. Both felt very tight and together with a very well connected front end, and as much fun on the road as any GT3.
High praise indeed. Geneve said:
Of course there will be some compromises, going back 15 -20 years in time, but if you buy well and look after it you should have a lot of fun and not lose money.
I think I could live with an older car as long as it started when I needed it to and it had a few "modern" features like AC.I've currently got a 997.2 C4S and a 1982 3.0 SC. Also previously owned several mint 911s of various vintage (see profile). What I would say is that older 911s (I'm talking pre 964) are a bit marmite. I love driving them but they can be frustrating at times with their clunky old controls. However the 964 and 993 offer a significantly more 'modern' driving experience which may provide a better classic v contemporary compromise for some people. Just depends how raw you really want to go. Basically, as far as 911s go, the older they are the more character they have but the harder they are to live with and drive fast. You could say that the 964/993 is the sweet spot, but I think that's a bit simplistic. I would say that they are more like the middle ground, which is certainly not best for everyone.
So of course drive everything from the 70's through to the mid 90's and make your own mind up which is best. They are all certainly a bit different. Also bear in mind that condition is everything. Drive a dog of an old car (and many unfortunately are) and you will be totally put off for life. So make sure you test drive good examples of each!
So of course drive everything from the 70's through to the mid 90's and make your own mind up which is best. They are all certainly a bit different. Also bear in mind that condition is everything. Drive a dog of an old car (and many unfortunately are) and you will be totally put off for life. So make sure you test drive good examples of each!
I've owned two 3.2 Carrera coupes, a 993 C4 coupe (variorum) and currently have a 996 turbo (x50) coupe -they've all been daily drivers.
The 3.2 Carrera was my first 911 and when I changed to the 993 I instantly knew I'd made a mistake. The 3.2 Carrera still has the cool factor from early 911's. It's certainly heavier and more agricultural to drive but it's an event and requires some effort - they are very marmite (and often cars need to be set-up if tired).
The 993 was quicker than the 3.2 but it isn't really quick in comparison to newer machinery. My current 996 turbo delivers on that front, being fast, sure footed and has a purposeful (not beautiful) look.
It really depends how often you want to use it and how practical you want your 911 to be.
Any 911 is a treat to drive v most other cars...you just need to drive a good example to decide which is right for you.
The 3.2 Carrera was my first 911 and when I changed to the 993 I instantly knew I'd made a mistake. The 3.2 Carrera still has the cool factor from early 911's. It's certainly heavier and more agricultural to drive but it's an event and requires some effort - they are very marmite (and often cars need to be set-up if tired).
The 993 was quicker than the 3.2 but it isn't really quick in comparison to newer machinery. My current 996 turbo delivers on that front, being fast, sure footed and has a purposeful (not beautiful) look.
It really depends how often you want to use it and how practical you want your 911 to be.
Any 911 is a treat to drive v most other cars...you just need to drive a good example to decide which is right for you.
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