Anyone got a Singer?

[pete a]

Further to the spare million thread where quite a few of us said we would rather buy a Singer 911 than the 73rs or RSR, does anyone on here have one yet.
I know there are quite a few serious players here with a few quid spare that could get one if desired, anyone pulled the trigger and got one.

If yes I'd love to see a few pictures of it in the real world instead of promo pictures.

If you are one of the few who could afford one but haven't bothered, what's the reasoning behind that?

[Geneve]

I doubt if many buyers are considering a Singer or a genuine RS on the same level.

At £150k+, a Singer (based on a 993 donor vehicle) could be a lot of fun for someone with that level of disposable cash. But, even though it may be the best of its type, it will always be a hybrid with modern running gear on a backdated look.

2.7RSs and 2.8RSRs have now moved into another price league - these are blue chip collectables and integral part of Porsche's road and race history. At the moment, an entry level RS is probably twice the price of a Singer, and I'd guess a 2.8RSR is touching 7-figures?

[shoestring7]

IIRC Singers are $300k and up, but while the running gear has been modified it's still the original 964 stuff - albeit with a 993 gearbox.

At their stand at Le Mans Classic, Porsche were displaying a 991turbo loaded with their Exclusive doo-dahs, and the price was well north of EUR200,000. I know which one represents better value.

SS7

[V8KSN]

shoestring7 said:

IIRC Singers are $300k and up, but while the running gear has been modified it's still the original 964 stuff - albeit with a 993 gearbox.

At their stand at Le Mans Classic, Porsche were displaying a 991turbo loaded with their Exclusive doo-dahs, and the price was well north of EUR200,000. I know which one represents better value.

SS7

If I won the lottery tomorrow, the 991 Turbo would be nowhere near my top 10 car purchases.....the Singer would be number 1!

[Geneve]

My understand was that each Singer is bespoke and can be built on either a 964 or 993 donor vehicle.

[uktrailmonster]

Geneve said:

My understand was that each Singer is bespoke and can be built on either a 964 or 993 donor vehicle.

964 only I think. Makes sense as 993 would require more replacement panels no?
Website only makes reference to 964 too.

[hornbaek]

I looked at it seriously some time ago and had a dialogue with Singer about it. Donor car is the 964 only. They are beautifully build but there was one flaw and that was, that they did not have a TÜV approval so you could not freely take it into Europe. It would be ok in the UK but many other markets would be closed for it which would have a substantial impact on second hand values. Furthermore, since they are all made to measure and Singer is still around, who would actually pay more for a used one than it would cost to order a new one to exact specification. It is a bit like the Jaguar Eagle. It is a great project but I'm not sure it is a value retaining one. I would always favour a 2.7 RS or equivalent.

[InsideDealings]

I am ready to order a car but I am not going to commit until they have approval in Europe as this where I will have it registered.

There is a french owner of one of the early cars but it is registered in London.

[dugsud]

V8KSN said:

shoestring7 said:

IIRC Singers are $300k and up, but while the running gear has been modified it's still the original 964 stuff - albeit with a 993 gearbox.

At their stand at Le Mans Classic, Porsche were displaying a 991turbo loaded with their Exclusive doo-dahs, and the price was well north of EUR200,000. I know which one represents better value.

SS7

If I won the lottery tomorrow, the 991 Turbo would be nowhere near my top 10 car purchases.....the Singer would be number 1!

Me too....I don't think a 991 Turbo is a serious competitor to a Singer and vice versa!

[wtdoom]

You'd have to be insane to buy a singer over an 73 rsr or 73 rs . As well as I can understand but instead of I genuinely could never get .

[pete a]

wtdoom said:

You'd have to be insane to buy a singer over an 73 rsr or 73 rs . As well as I can understand but instead of I genuinely could never get .

I think the point is that the 73 RS or RSR is now getting on for 500k to 1m depending on the car and who you're buying from, at that price point surely a Singer at 200k makes sense if you plan on driving it now and again.

[Yellow491]

pete a said:

I think the point is that the 73 RS or RSR is now getting on for 500k to 1m depending on the car and who you're buying from, at that price point surely a Singer at 200k makes sense if you plan on driving it now and again.

You will not buy a 2.8 rsr for 1 big one now for sure,the singer has no place in comparison to a proper 2.8 rsr.
If you want a classic looking car get a pre 73 car and hot rod it to your spec,much better than a singer.

[Chris Stott]

Yellow491 said:

If you want a classic looking car get a pre 73 car and hot rod it to your spec,much better than a singer.

Cheaper maybe, but not better.

[andy74b]

pete a said:

I think the point is that the 73 RS or RSR is now getting on for 500k to 1m depending on the car and who you're buying from, at that price point surely a Singer at 200k makes sense if you plan on driving it now and again.

Where can you get a Singer for £200k??

[pete a]

andy74b said:

Where can you get a Singer for £200k??

From Singer, brand new and built to your perfect spec...

At the current exchange rate $350,000 USD comes out at about £207,000 GBP.

[mollytherocker]

I have no doubt that Singers are fantastic creations.

But they are not Porsches.

It depends what you want. But For me, at this price level, I would buy a proper genuine Porsche.

[dugsud]

mollytherocker said:

I have no doubt that Singers are fantastic creations.

But they are not Porsches.

It depends what you want. But For me, at this price level, I would buy a proper genuine Porsche.

So using that criteria this is not a Porsche either....

[Yellow491]

Yes,not a Porsche,and not the best build quality at times.

[Schnellmann]

Chris Stott said:

Yellow491 said:

If you want a classic looking car get a pre 73 car and hot rod it to your spec,much better than a singer.

Cheaper maybe, but not better.

A Singer would be faster...but does that make it better? If speed is the only criterium then you could say a Nissan GTR is much "better" than a Singer and costs only a fraction of the price.

Evaluating cars on other than performance figures is entirely subjective. Although the Singer cars look to be very well made they do not look at good as the early cars to me (wheels far too big). The early cars are also much lighter and much rawer (if done as a hot rod) than a Singer. The Singer might be better for day to day use....but then I can't imagine many owners of such cars actually having them as their daily driver.

I haven't seen a Singer in the flesh nor driven one and perhaps my opinion would change if I did but as it stands I would rather have a hot rod early 911 at a fraction of the price or a proper 2.7 RS at
the higher price.

[OlberJ]

Quite. The rear wheels on the singers are awful IMO.

The silver, early car they showed in the CH vid looked much better but you could build a nice hot rod for a lot less that would retain more relative value while quite possibly being better to drive dependant on choice of parts used.

Without the silly wide arches and rear wheels, it'd be a whole different ball game for me.