986 non-starting problem (more advanced stage)
Discussion
Guys and girls, I would appreciate any good suggestions, the situation is:
- Battery died a while ago after just 2 weeks of non running (that itself was a bit strange), new battery fitted now
- Fuses fine
- Can open/lock the car, all electrics work fine when keen in/turned
- Turning ignition to start results in no action
- ECU and Start relays (1 & 7 in the rear) 'bridging test' allowed me to crank the engine but still not able to start (so ignition switch and started work)
- Replaced these 2 relays + the fuel pump relay but still no action when trying to start.
chris7676 said:
Guys and girls, I would appreciate any good suggestions, the situation is:
Let's see... sudden battery death after two weeks of non-use? I have to think maybe there's rodents afoot in the car and they gnawed some wiring and this killed the battery and accounts for the symptoms.- Battery died a while ago after just 2 weeks of non running (that itself was a bit strange), new battery fitted now
- Fuses fine
- Can open/lock the car, all electrics work fine when keen in/turned
- Turning ignition to start results in no action
- ECU and Start relays (1 & 7 in the rear) 'bridging test' allowed me to crank the engine but still not able to start (so ignition switch and started work)
- Replaced these 2 relays + the fuel pump relay but still no action when trying to start.
Absent rodent damage, if the engine doesn't crank when the key is turned to the start position this could be an ignition switch problem, or if a manual equipped car a clutch interlock switch problem, if a Tip equipped perhaps a Park/Neutral switch problem.
Oh, or it could be key RFID pill problem. When you insert the key and turn the key to start a beam of RF energy is emitted by an antenna that is behind the ring the circles the ignition switch. This energy is received by RFID pill and energizes the pill's electronics enough it transmits its ID in an RF signal which is received by the antenna and conveyed to the security system which decodes the signal into an ID number and then verifies the ID is present in the table of ID's and if found then allows the engine to crank and run.
If the security system is not receiving the key ID or it is not present in the security system a tech with the proper diagnostic computer can query the security system for errors that point to the problem.
If the ignition switch is at fault you can wiggle/push/pull on the key as you turn it to start and see if you can get the engine to crank possibly even run.
If the clutch interlock switch is acting up you can work the clutch pedal energetically in the hopes this will resurrect the switch. You can replace the switch or even if you are capable remove it and wire in a bypass for just testing purposes.
If the Tip shifter switches are faulty perhaps you can move the Tip shifter about in hopes of getting the Park or Neutral safety switch closed one more time so the engine can be cranked and started.
'course, once you have found the likely cause you will have to do a proper fix.
Rockster, thank you for the comprehensive reply. It's a manual S (2000).
It's unlikely to be the ignition switch as I said I could crank it by test-bridging the relays and then turning the key. As for the wiring - who knows, although the electrics seem to be there generally.
I will need a specialist to get it sorted, but I'm not sure if it's best to get the car towed or just try the key element replacement - if it's the immobilizer. I did open the key and visually it looks all fine there (like new).
It's unlikely to be the ignition switch as I said I could crank it by test-bridging the relays and then turning the key. As for the wiring - who knows, although the electrics seem to be there generally.
I will need a specialist to get it sorted, but I'm not sure if it's best to get the car towed or just try the key element replacement - if it's the immobilizer. I did open the key and visually it looks all fine there (like new).
chris7676 said:
Rockster, thank you for the comprehensive reply. It's a manual S (2000).
It's unlikely to be the ignition switch as I said I could crank it by test-bridging the relays and then turning the key. As for the wiring - who knows, although the electrics seem to be there generally.
I will need a specialist to get it sorted, but I'm not sure if it's best to get the car towed or just try the key element replacement - if it's the immobilizer. I did open the key and visually it looks all fine there (like new).
Not sure how well your bridging eliminates the switch. If it is the switch wiggling the key, pulling/pushing it in various directions while attempting to start the car can sometimes meet with success. This relies upon the fact (the hope rather) the problem is due to a marginally intermittent contact which while it won't get better will (may) work well, intermittently.It's unlikely to be the ignition switch as I said I could crank it by test-bridging the relays and then turning the key. As for the wiring - who knows, although the electrics seem to be there generally.
I will need a specialist to get it sorted, but I'm not sure if it's best to get the car towed or just try the key element replacement - if it's the immobilizer. I did open the key and visually it looks all fine there (like new).
With a manual transmission equipped car there's always the clutch interlock switch. And intermittently bad one prevented my Boxster from starting more than once. There appeared to be no rhyme or reason when it would or would not start. But it was one very frustrating symptom.
A bad RFID pill is also a possibility. If you have more than one key and none work while the already mentioned items all apply, this also brings with it the possibility there is a problem with the RF/communication link between the security module and the key module RFID pill.
My advice is get the car towed to where you chose to have this looked into. Even if you manage to start the engine you run the risk of the engine stops running on the way. Then the engine may not start again and the car is where it is until you can arrange a tow.
justinbaker said:
This happened to mine, there is a fix where you sit in the car, locked insert the key into the switch ready, wait 30 seconds then move, the alarm sounds and you turn the key through full cycle, it cranks and fires.
I'm not aware of that procedure but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.The OP is certainly free to try the procedure before he calls the tow truck.
"Parts darts" isn't always a good way to go but I think an ignition switch, which is a known weak point, is only about £15 (that might be when sourced as a VW item, it it's the same thing) so if you can change this yourself it'd be worth a go compared with the grief & expense of transporting the car somewhere to be looked at.
May be a long shot but try a battery reset - it's free afterall......
Ignition ON
Pop front lid and remove battery cover
Disconnect earth lead (leave off)
Switch ignition OFF
Remove key
Reconnect battery
Refit cover
Close doors and bonnet
Lock the car
Leave 2 minutes
Unlock the car
Switch on ignition and retry start up
Failing the above; check under the passenger seat for dampness; remove seat and unclip the alarm unit. Disconnect battery again and unplug alarm ECU. Remove ECU cover and check the ECU board - visible defects will be obvious
Ignition ON
Pop front lid and remove battery cover
Disconnect earth lead (leave off)
Switch ignition OFF
Remove key
Reconnect battery
Refit cover
Close doors and bonnet
Lock the car
Leave 2 minutes
Unlock the car
Switch on ignition and retry start up
Failing the above; check under the passenger seat for dampness; remove seat and unclip the alarm unit. Disconnect battery again and unplug alarm ECU. Remove ECU cover and check the ECU board - visible defects will be obvious
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