997 diffrence between 4s & 4???

[spyderman8]

uktrailmonster said:

Then it will understeer even more. Increased mass does not equate to more grip, contrary to popular belief and mythology.

Then you'd better explain why trail braking works to all racing drivers then. The extra weight up front will also reduce the lightness and bobbing.

[iaiin]

WindyMiller67 said:

The C4 has a 3.6l engine and the C4S has the 3.8l. The C4S had a better spec but as others have said the C4 could be specced up too. One of these options is the PASM (active suspension) wasn't standard on the C4. It's worth having for the UK's potholed roads IMO. When you're looking at an ad, look at the bottom row of switches in front of the gear selector - these are the options. They all have the switch to raise and lower the spoiler, and to disable PSM. The other ones to look for are PASM (shock absorber symbol) and if you can PSE (twin exhaust pipe symbol). The Sport (chrono) is good too!
I think the C2 was a good idea because you could argue it was a pure 911 experience - 2Wd and no frills. I can't see that a C4 makes so much sense and might be hard to move on later, so definitely go for a C4S if you want the wide body and all-wheel drive.
They are heavier of course and less efficient but most of the time the power is going through the rear wheels anyway. It's not until situations like booting out of a wet roundabout that all-wheel drive makes the difference as the power goes to the front wheels and pulls you out!
HTH

Thanks for that .. So the c4 has the 3.6 engine !!! thats defo no then, as want 3.8 for sure..Thanks again for letting me know about buttons i will look for thses now . Is the 3.8 engine the same risk for meltdown as the 3.6 ? or are they diffrent build ?
thanks again great information cheers

[iaiin]

TheBMWDriver said:

having owned both a 4 and a 2S the 2S is a nicer car to drive. Test drive them both before buying.

And a Non S can have the quad exhaust pipes if the car has PSE.

So c4 can have quad pipes? if quads it has got the pse then? I would like to drive both but dont like wasting peoples time, feel a bit of tyre kicker which is a shame, nice if you can afford new & go to porsche .....

[iaiin]

alexisn said:

Having owned a 997.1 C2S and now a 997.2 C4S I find the 4 vastly superior. It doesn't bob, lurch, understeer and weave like the 2, it's much quicker and planted.

yes my 996 is a 4, & bit safer when on our crappy roads and hit holes half way through a bend ....

[iaiin]

Callughan said:

I disagree, when I had a 997.2 c2s I was slower around corners than in 997.1 4s and at high speed 4S felt more planted. Prehaps because I'm a st driver but with a 4S you are allowed to be

Saying that I found the car to compliant and boring compared to my 996.

Nice article on 4s:
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/5784...

my 996 is fun & i do like it but the inside looks a bit dated to 997. will look at article in a bit,
cheers

[iaiin]

Adam B said:

good point although PSE rare on non-S

Iaiin - PSE easy to spot on 997.1 - quad exhaust with smaller inner pipes. Whether 2 or 4 get an S for the extra spec and punch for not much extra £

Adam, Yes thanks for that , i did read about the slightly smaller pipe to larger to make pse, porsche dont make it easy do they ??
single slotted = standard 4 ..... quad the same size = bit better........ quad diffrent sixed = the one you want...
ha ha

[iaiin]

uktrailmonster said:

Yeah, I've noticed that too. I also miss the 996 exhaust note, mine had a Manthey exhaust which sounded great at full chat. The 997 is a much better car overall though and I certainly wouldn't go back. But in hindsight I wish my 997 had the sports exhaust, but other than that it's awesome (997.2 C4S)

yes my 996 had just had a genuine standard porsche exhaust put on befor i got it, so i was gutted and did not want to spend/trash new one so had that "gundo hack" done they convert you existing exhaust to sports for £400 in stainless steel with the by-pass how porsche do it, it is fab, why dont you have that done to yours ?not a lot to spend when you consider cost of car/enjoyment...
the company was in essex that done mine called haywood & scott..

[iaiin]

hondansx said:

Made the same move and completely agree! The ride is also nicer.

Worth noting the Gen 2 C4S had the better Turbo 4WD system, making it quicker on track than the C2S in the dry and of course easily quicker in the wet.

what year is gen 2 997 ??? the car i will get will be 2006 ish

[Magic919]

Late 2008 for Gen 2. They started being registered in July.

[alexisn]

I think the C2 'bobbing' is more of a shocker problem and I certainly don't purchase a Porsche to stick bags of sand in the front!!
The Gundo hack is an unknown for me on the .2, I understand that the pse uses different silencers so simulating it with a standard silencer doesn't work as well, same goes for removing the centre silencer.

[Callughan]

iaiin said:

Callughan said:

I disagree, when I had a 997.2 c2s I was slower around corners than in 997.1 4s and at high speed 4S felt more planted. Prehaps because I'm a st driver but with a 4S you are allowed to be

Saying that I found the car to compliant and boring compared to my 996.

Nice article on 4s:
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/5784...

my 996 is fun & i do like it but the inside looks a bit dated to 997. will look at article in a bit,
cheers

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=48&t=1225982&nmt=My+new+997+C4S&mid=121520
My thoughts when I bought the 7c4s

[spyderman8]

alexisn said:

I think the C2 'bobbing' is more of a shocker problem and I certainly don't purchase a Porsche to stick bags of sand in the front!!

Absolutely. But unles there is something actually broke or worn, a good geo should sort that out.

[alexisn]

No, unfortunately it doesn't. Have been told that new rear shocks help but not for long.

[uktrailmonster]

spyderman8 said:

uktrailmonster said:

Then it will understeer even more. Increased mass does not equate to more grip, contrary to popular belief and mythology.

Then you'd better explain why trail braking works to all racing drivers then. The extra weight up front will also reduce the lightness and bobbing.

Dynamic weight transfer from trail braking is not the same as just sticking a load of static mass over the front axle. With weight transfer you create extra dynamic grip without any increased mass to counteract it. By sticking a sack of potatoes in the front, all you are achieving is making the whole car heavier and moving the centre of gravity slightly forward, which will make it understeer more. It's very simple physics and the basic reason why front engined cars usually suffer from terminal understeer. In the early days Porsche did load up the front with ballast, but only to reduce oversteer, not understeer - and it was most definitely a bodge of a fix!

Edited by uktrailmonster on Sunday 3rd August 17:55

Edited by uktrailmonster on Monday 4th August 10:11

[uktrailmonster]

iaiin said:

yes my 996 had just had a genuine standard porsche exhaust put on befor i got it, so i was gutted and did not want to spend/trash new one so had that "gundo hack" done they convert you existing exhaust to sports for £400 in stainless steel with the by-pass how porsche do it, it is fab, why dont you have that done to yours ?not a lot to spend when you consider cost of car/enjoyment...
the company was in essex that done mine called haywood & scott..

I would imagine Porsche warranty would be void unfortunately.

[Mario149]

uktrailmonster said:

spyderman8 said:

uktrailmonster said:

Then it will understeer even more. Increased mass does not equate to more grip, contrary to popular belief and mythology.

Then you'd better explain why trail braking works to all racing drivers then. The extra weight up front will also reduce the lightness and bobbing.

Dynamic weight transfer from trail braking is not the same as just sticking a load of static mass over the front axle. With weight transfer you create extra dynamic grip without any increased mass to counteract it. By sticking a sack of potatoes in the front, all you are achieving is making the whole car heavier and moving the centre of gravity slightly forward, which will make it understeer more. It's very simple physics and the basic reason why front engined cars usually suffer from terminal understeer. In the early days Porsche did load up the front with ballast, but only to reduce oversteer, not understeer - and it was most definitely a bodge of a fix!

Edited by uktrailmonster on Sunday 3rd August 17:55

Edited by uktrailmonster on Monday 4th August 10:11

It's going to be even more complicated than that: in a C4 you have more weight at the front, so the CG is also further forward AND you have the tyres being worked harder as they're transmitting drive to the road so will let go sooner, so a C4 should understeer even more than a C2 with a crate of beer in the front. In my experience of owning both a 4wd and 2wd, on track the 4wd understeered more. But it's all academic really as you can get the geo tweaked to make it do what you want with either anyway. As best I can tell in the real world 4wd just tweaks the steering feel slightly and adds a few more pies to the car to lug around. And I just don't buy the "4wd in a 911 makes me quicker on the road" mantra anyway, especially in 996s and 997.1s, since the rears have to be slipping before any significant drive is sent to the front to start with, by the time the 4wd is helping, you'd have to be sliding like a hooligan everywhere, which people clearly aren't.

[DiscoColin]

Adam B said:

4 are all wide body, by an extra 44mm IIRC
2 are not

S is more powerful and had some extra kit
S has round quad exhaust, non S has twin flat

With a final footnote on 2wd wide bodied 997s that all GTS (whether 2 or 4 wheel drive) are wide bodied and so too are the Sport Classic, GT2, GT2RS and GT3RS.

The Targas are also all wide, but they are all 4wd too (as are the Turbos) so not relevant to the discussion.

Not nit picking, just mopping it all up for the sake of completeness

[mollytherocker]

DiscoColin said:

Adam B said:

4 are all wide body, by an extra 44mm IIRC
2 are not

S is more powerful and had some extra kit
S has round quad exhaust, non S has twin flat

With a final footnote on 2wd wide bodied 997s that all GTS (whether 2 or 4 wheel drive) are wide bodied and so too are the Sport Classic, GT2, GT2RS and GT3RS.

The Targas are also all wide, but they are all 4wd too (as are the Turbos) so not relevant to the discussion.

Not nit picking, just mopping it all up for the sake of completeness

Is this the same for gen 1 and 2 cars?

[hondansx]

Yes.

Worth noting the Gundo Hack does bugger all for the Gen 2 cars.

[Adam B]

Yep I ignored all the more exotic or gen 2 stuff as OP was looking at base and S only, but all good info