Why are Porsche not seen as super cars ?
Discussion
Nobbles said:
Could it be the price? For example Porsche have typically always had an entry level car, be it a 914, 924 or Boxster. Ferrari, Lamborghini only have cars that cost the money that wealthy people have, the only entry level Ferrari was branded Dino. This has a impact on exclusivity as the market segment for a Porsche is much bigger. I suppose the true test - Is the Audi R8 a super car in the same breath as a Ferrari?
R8 is just a pimped up Audi Titty....and clearly no way a supercar.....dilution of the brand and exclusivity is a factor......question is......is a 'Datsun' GTR Nismo a supercar........
av185 said:
Nobbles said:
Could it be the price? For example Porsche have typically always had an entry level car, be it a 914, 924 or Boxster. Ferrari, Lamborghini only have cars that cost the money that wealthy people have, the only entry level Ferrari was branded Dino. This has a impact on exclusivity as the market segment for a Porsche is much bigger. I suppose the true test - Is the Audi R8 a super car in the same breath as a Ferrari?
R8 is just a pimped up Audi Titty....and clearly no way a supercar.....dilution of the brand and exclusivity is a factor......question is......is a 'Datsun' GTR Nismo a supercar........av185 said:
R8 is just a pimped up Audi Titty....:
what rubbish, they steer better than any new Porsche, have real dampers and real diffs with a 550Bhp V10 NA engine.At £135k and that bespoke build and performance, it's right up there imo nothing like any thing else in the Audi range.
the Plus and now the LMX are really honed performance machines.
mrdemon said:
what rubbish, they steer better than any new Porsche, have real dampers and real diffs with a 550Bhp V10 NA engine.
At £135k and that bespoke build and performance, it's right up there imo nothing like any thing else in the Audi range.
the Plus and now the LMX are really honed performance machines.
Just out of curiosity - Is the R8 V8 a supercar in your eyes as well as the Aston Martin Vantage V8?At £135k and that bespoke build and performance, it's right up there imo nothing like any thing else in the Audi range.
the Plus and now the LMX are really honed performance machines.
R8 is a tough one, vantages imo are just sports cars they made the "One-77 " which was a super car.
super cars and hyper cars have got a cross over point now.
I would have called a P1, 918 and La Ferrari Super cars, but now they are hyper cars.
Not sure what a Super car is, the R8 LMX must be close to being a super car, it's got laser lights ffs :-)
If the Lambo Gallardo is a Super car so is the Audi R8 LMX.
maybe now you buy "the Badge" to own that Super car...
super cars and hyper cars have got a cross over point now.
I would have called a P1, 918 and La Ferrari Super cars, but now they are hyper cars.
Not sure what a Super car is, the R8 LMX must be close to being a super car, it's got laser lights ffs :-)
If the Lambo Gallardo is a Super car so is the Audi R8 LMX.
maybe now you buy "the Badge" to own that Super car...
mrdemon said:
R8 is a tough one, vantages imo are just sports cars they made the "One-77 " which was a super car.
super cars and hyper cars have got a cross over point now.
I would have called a P1, 918 and La Ferrari Super cars, but now they are hyper cars.
Not sure what a Super car is, the R8 LMX must be close to being a super car, it's got laser lights ffs :-)
If the Lambo Gallardo is a Super car so is the Audi R8 LMX.
maybe now you buy "the Badge" to own that Super car...
I think hypercar has taken over from where supercar left off, apart from the need for a hybrid setup they have the price and performance gap above your mass produced high performance vehicles to make them the dream cars of todays youth.super cars and hyper cars have got a cross over point now.
I would have called a P1, 918 and La Ferrari Super cars, but now they are hyper cars.
Not sure what a Super car is, the R8 LMX must be close to being a super car, it's got laser lights ffs :-)
If the Lambo Gallardo is a Super car so is the Audi R8 LMX.
maybe now you buy "the Badge" to own that Super car...
jakesmith said:
av185 said:
R8 is just a pimped up Audi Titty....and clearly no way a supercar.....dilution of the brand and exclusivity is a factor......question is......is a 'Datsun' GTR Nismo a supercar........
Absolute moronic rubbish. The R8 helped make the Audi brand what it is today.
Audi is seen by many as a brand only slightly better than white goods I.e. similar to BMW and Merc all of who lost their 'premium' brand status many years back.....
mrdemon said:
av185 said:
R8 is just a pimped up Audi Titty....:
what rubbish, they steer better than any new Porsche, have real dampers and real diffs with a 550Bhp V10 NA engine.At £135k and that bespoke build and performance, it's right up there imo nothing like any thing else in the Audi range.
the Plus and now the LMX are really honed performance machines.
Have you driven one?
mrdemon said:
av185 said:
R8 is just a pimped up Audi Titty....:
what rubbish, they steer better than any new Porsche, have real dampers and real diffs with a 550Bhp V10 NA engine.At £135k and that bespoke build and performance, it's right up there imo nothing like any thing else in the Audi range.
the Plus and now the LMX are really honed performance machines.
av185 said:
jakesmith said:
av185 said:
R8 is just a pimped up Audi Titty....and clearly no way a supercar.....dilution of the brand and exclusivity is a factor......question is......is a 'Datsun' GTR Nismo a supercar........
Absolute moronic rubbish. The R8 helped make the Audi brand what it is today.
Audi is seen by many as a brand only slightly better than white goods I.e. similar to BMW and Merc all of who lost their 'premium' brand status many years back.....
Anyway, I guess Porsche is not generally seen as a supercar brand because they are too usable on a daily basis, not wide / impractical enough and not stupidly expensive.
av185 said:
jakesmith said:
av185 said:
R8 is just a pimped up Audi Titty....and clearly no way a supercar.....dilution of the brand and exclusivity is a factor......question is......is a 'Datsun' GTR Nismo a supercar........
Absolute moronic rubbish. The R8 helped make the Audi brand what it is today.
Audi is seen by many as a brand only slightly better than white goods I.e. similar to BMW and Merc all of who lost their 'premium' brand status many years back.....
As for Germans losing 'premium' brand status many years back" -well they are are still aspirational - you might not like them but people want them.Remember E class has been doing the taxi circuit for many moons - hardly 'premium' brand status" back then ?Or you could argue therefore that Merc lost their'premium' brand status" once they started making commercial vehichles?
av185 said:
Just out of interest........which is what exactly?.....
Audi is seen by many as a brand only slightly better than white goods I.e. similar to BMW and Merc all of who lost their 'premium' brand status many years back.....
Not quite seen that way.Audi is seen by many as a brand only slightly better than white goods I.e. similar to BMW and Merc all of who lost their 'premium' brand status many years back.....
Both Mercedes-Benz and BMW made a decision to enter the volume sectors of the car market over two decades ago. Both have been very successful decisions. Indeed, in my neck of the woods the next car you see is likely to be a BMW or Mercedes rather than a Ford or Vauxhall as was usually the case two decades ago.
To do this, some things had to change and there is evidence that build quality has suffered. Not based on what I read or hear on the web or in the Motoring Mags and elsewhere, but by speaking to my friendly and very helpful MoT tester when testing one of my cars and a few owners of such cars.
There are still a few myths alive and well within UK car consumer circles. Here I do not only have in mind the well known "It's a Rover mate, they all do that"...
For years my friendly new Porsche driving neighbour has castigated me on my choice of cars. Always going on about German engineering and build quality. He does not do that now since his Boxster left him stranded on the hard shoulder of the nearby M5. That Boxster cost more to repair than my new MG ZS did on the road.
He's guilty of another myth. When he asked how my still fairly new MG was going, I told him the family had just returned from touring mainland Europe in it where my son casually let slip cruising it well into three figures and it never missed a beat. His reply.
"That's Honda engine reliability for you John"
...
Another widespread myth.
On more than one occasion I have viewed a used Rover described by the vendor as having the powerful and reliable Honda engine. On the phone, I mentioned that if his petrol turbo Rover has a Honda engine, I am not interested in purchasing it.
"It must be a Honda engine, it's so reliable and powerful!"
Of course it did not and I bought both cars ..
I also informed the vendor that Honda put Rover's fine L Series Diesel engine in their Diesel Accord.
To this day, I'd bet a few quid both those vendors believe their cars did have Honda engines and I was mistaken.
Lost count of the times I've seen Rovers for sale with a Honda engines ... erroneously described.
Funny old game folks and cars ...
mrdemon said:
av185 said:
Are you saying the R8 steers better thsn the 991 GT3?...
Have you driven one?
people in the know say the Aston V12 S steers better (as in feel) than the 991 GT3 so the R8 will do :-)Have you driven one?
Is this an exclusive private club of nameless people in the know ?....
Whilst we all know the drivers glossy car mags journos findings should always be taken with a good dose of salt....as a drivers car I don t however recollect the Aston coming anywhere near the third placed SLS, second placed F12 and winning GT3 in Evo Coty 2013.....just a guide, you understand...
I agree the Aston in question is a cool badge no question...archaic but understand some find it charming......but supercar....no way...no more than a Mas Stradale MC both of which are more GT than sports cars incidentally.........
av185 said:
Audi is seen by many as a brand only slightly better than white goods I.e. similar to BMW and Merc all of who lost their 'premium' brand status many years back....
that's just a bit rich given the cayenne/macan/panamera nonsense that PAG are incessantly churning out in ever greater numbers.tali1 said:
R8 is supercar - as for brand today - i'm sure Audi were doing fine pre-R8 -Audi are not defined by it.Suppose it is their NSX.
As for Germans losing 'premium' brand status many years back" -well they are are still aspirational - you might not like them but people want them.Remember E class has been doing the taxi circuit for many moons - hardly 'premium' brand status" back then ?Or you could argue therefore that Merc lost their'premium' brand status" once they started making commercial vehichles?
I think the incessant rise of the ubiquitous easily funded outer lane hogging 2.0 tdi whether 3 series, A4 or C class has a lot to answer for in diluting the previously seen as 'premium' brand of BMW, 'Aldi' and Merc although I would agree these are still seen as aspirational by many....As for Germans losing 'premium' brand status many years back" -well they are are still aspirational - you might not like them but people want them.Remember E class has been doing the taxi circuit for many moons - hardly 'premium' brand status" back then ?Or you could argue therefore that Merc lost their'premium' brand status" once they started making commercial vehichles?
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