mr.demon is going to like this months evo magazine
Discussion
Slippydiff said:
Effectively it’s a bit like saying a wood burner or an open fire is rubbish, because modern central heating or underfloor systems are so efficient , clean and fuss free, they have to be better. Too right, but I know which has more character when you're down the pub on a cold winters evening ……."
Well put ! http://englishrussia.com/2013/04/14/soviet-steam-c...
i heard they have tons of steering feel on the track
i heard they have tons of steering feel on the track
seawise said:
it was so well balanced in terms of grip, power etc that it just wasn't much of a challenge.
It's not meant to be, is it? It's a road car, so of course it wouldn't shine on a GP circuit.You could always try breaking the suspension, getting the tyre pressures all wrong, or dialling in some really crappy geo settings if you want a challenge. Maybe all three.
seawise said:
Probably a lovely road car though.
That it most certainly is.
Slippydiff said:
'Fraid not. My summation of the CR posted on here some months ago
"When my Slate grey Gen 1 GT3 went back to Swindon OPC for some warranty work, I requested a Cayman R as a loan car. Swindon were very accommodating and I found myself with the keys to an almost new GT Silver Cayman R for the next five days.
Having read all the glowing road tests of the recently launched car, I couldn’t wait to get behind the wheel.
Alas, I’m afraid it turned out to be rather a damp squib. If the 964 RS sounds like old tin cans (not sure what you’re referring to specifically ?) the Cayman R sounded like any other car on the road (but hey, at least by pressing a button you could make it sound “sporty”). And what a sporty noise it was. Not. Instead you got a slightly louder and more convoluted/synthesised version of the “basic” non-sport noise.
A word in your shell-like, get someone to take you out in a de-catted 964 RS, (preferably one fitted with a Cup pipe fitted) then you’ll know what “sporty” sounds like. But failing that, I’ll take you out for a spin in my Manthey modified GT3.
“But what if I don’t want the sporty noise all the time ?” you say. Simple, don’t tread on the loud pedal so heavily.
So my summation is thus : (apologies to all you Cayman owners, I know I’ve already offended some of you)
Steering ? Lifeless, lacking in weight, feedback and to a lesser degree, feel (not helped by the Bridgestone tyres I suspect).
Brakes ? Rather lacking in feel, pathetically small and looked lost behind the rather lovely 19” lightweight wheels.
Engine ? Dull, lacking in any real character, top end verve and a decent soundtrack.
Internal door pulls ? A joke (se my original post)
Interior ? Bland and generally lacking any sense of occasion.
The drive ? Very accomplished (but wait for it), dull. I had the car five days, but having driven it from Swindon back oop North, it sat forlornly on the drive for the duration, as I couldn’t muster sufficient enthusiasm to take it on a proper cross country hoon across N.Wales. How sad is that ?
Conclusion ? Just not special enough, too amorphous and too anodyne for my taste.
And for those not already bored, a brief Post Script : In the spring of last year several mates and I met up early one Sunday morning for a N.Wales hoon.
The cars that attended were my Manthey modified Mk 1 996 GT3, an unmodified Mk1 996 GT3 Clubsport, an M3 CSL, a 964 RS and a Boxster Spyder (AKA a ragtop Cayman R).
I got to be lead gunner in the morning, I thus led down roads I knew fairly well. The only car that managed to keep up with the Manthey GT3 ? The Boxster Spyder (albeit it’s brakes began to fade badly and then the pedal went rather spongy for the rest of the day)
There’s no doubting the modern cars are fast, the issue for me is they’ve become too bland, efficient and ultimately souless in doing so. (Datsun GTR anyone ?) That’s not to decry them for being so, that after all, is progress.
Effectively it’s a bit like saying a wood burner or an open fire is rubbish, because modern central heating or underfloor systems are so efficient , clean and fuss free, they have to be better. Too right, but I know which has more character when you're down the pub on a cold winters evening ……."
In summary, someone used to driving an old track-orientated car found that a modern civilised road car was a bit civilised and a bit like a modern road car. Apples and pears."When my Slate grey Gen 1 GT3 went back to Swindon OPC for some warranty work, I requested a Cayman R as a loan car. Swindon were very accommodating and I found myself with the keys to an almost new GT Silver Cayman R for the next five days.
Having read all the glowing road tests of the recently launched car, I couldn’t wait to get behind the wheel.
Alas, I’m afraid it turned out to be rather a damp squib. If the 964 RS sounds like old tin cans (not sure what you’re referring to specifically ?) the Cayman R sounded like any other car on the road (but hey, at least by pressing a button you could make it sound “sporty”). And what a sporty noise it was. Not. Instead you got a slightly louder and more convoluted/synthesised version of the “basic” non-sport noise.
A word in your shell-like, get someone to take you out in a de-catted 964 RS, (preferably one fitted with a Cup pipe fitted) then you’ll know what “sporty” sounds like. But failing that, I’ll take you out for a spin in my Manthey modified GT3.
“But what if I don’t want the sporty noise all the time ?” you say. Simple, don’t tread on the loud pedal so heavily.
So my summation is thus : (apologies to all you Cayman owners, I know I’ve already offended some of you)
Steering ? Lifeless, lacking in weight, feedback and to a lesser degree, feel (not helped by the Bridgestone tyres I suspect).
Brakes ? Rather lacking in feel, pathetically small and looked lost behind the rather lovely 19” lightweight wheels.
Engine ? Dull, lacking in any real character, top end verve and a decent soundtrack.
Internal door pulls ? A joke (se my original post)
Interior ? Bland and generally lacking any sense of occasion.
The drive ? Very accomplished (but wait for it), dull. I had the car five days, but having driven it from Swindon back oop North, it sat forlornly on the drive for the duration, as I couldn’t muster sufficient enthusiasm to take it on a proper cross country hoon across N.Wales. How sad is that ?
Conclusion ? Just not special enough, too amorphous and too anodyne for my taste.
And for those not already bored, a brief Post Script : In the spring of last year several mates and I met up early one Sunday morning for a N.Wales hoon.
The cars that attended were my Manthey modified Mk 1 996 GT3, an unmodified Mk1 996 GT3 Clubsport, an M3 CSL, a 964 RS and a Boxster Spyder (AKA a ragtop Cayman R).
I got to be lead gunner in the morning, I thus led down roads I knew fairly well. The only car that managed to keep up with the Manthey GT3 ? The Boxster Spyder (albeit it’s brakes began to fade badly and then the pedal went rather spongy for the rest of the day)
There’s no doubting the modern cars are fast, the issue for me is they’ve become too bland, efficient and ultimately souless in doing so. (Datsun GTR anyone ?) That’s not to decry them for being so, that after all, is progress.
Effectively it’s a bit like saying a wood burner or an open fire is rubbish, because modern central heating or underfloor systems are so efficient , clean and fuss free, they have to be better. Too right, but I know which has more character when you're down the pub on a cold winters evening ……."
I am sure you could get someone to modify a Cayman R and give it as much character as your modified car. As a bonus, it would have its engine in the right place
Maybe, but I doubt it - one of the good things about the Porsche pages is that people are relatively polite and willing to accept that they might just have different needs/wants/preferences.
We are all(a) probably reasonably intelligent and successful people and/or (b) genuine car enthusiasts who cannot take seriously the suggestion that there is one "right" layout, powertrain, etc, etc.
Even MrD, I am pretty sure, knows that there are different strokes for different folks.
For every GT3 lover there is a guy who like Audis, and everyone is a tiny bit right and mostly wrong (apart from Apolo, who is always right as long as he gives me one of his 12 GT3s).
We are all(a) probably reasonably intelligent and successful people and/or (b) genuine car enthusiasts who cannot take seriously the suggestion that there is one "right" layout, powertrain, etc, etc.
Even MrD, I am pretty sure, knows that there are different strokes for different folks.
For every GT3 lover there is a guy who like Audis, and everyone is a tiny bit right and mostly wrong (apart from Apolo, who is always right as long as he gives me one of his 12 GT3s).
monthefish said:
Pesty said:
Carl_Docklands said:
Because According to them, the next big thing in the used market iiiiiiisssssssssssss.......?
Faster than a f458 on track. Allegedly.
Whats that thenFaster than a f458 on track. Allegedly.
It is only faster than a f458 in mr.demon spec and you have to dress like the stig.
There is apparently a YouTube video of demon lapping brands, with one foot on the dash, passing a gt3.
Edited by Carl_Docklands on Friday 8th August 19:50
ORD said:
Maybe, but I doubt it - one of the good things about the Porsche pages is that people are relatively polite and willing to accept that they might just have different needs/wants/preferences.
We are all(a) probably reasonably intelligent and successful people and/or (b) genuine car enthusiasts who cannot take seriously the suggestion that there is one "right" layout, powertrain, etc, etc.
Even MrD, I am pretty sure, knows that there are different strokes for different folks.
Just to clarify, this is the PistonHeads Porsche forum you're alluding to ?We are all(a) probably reasonably intelligent and successful people and/or (b) genuine car enthusiasts who cannot take seriously the suggestion that there is one "right" layout, powertrain, etc, etc.
Even MrD, I am pretty sure, knows that there are different strokes for different folks.
Slippydiff said:
'Fraid not. My summation of the CR posted on here some months ago
"When my Slate grey Gen 1 GT3 went back to Swindon OPC for some warranty work, I requested a Cayman R as a loan car. Swindon were very accommodating and I found myself with the keys to an almost new GT Silver Cayman R for the next five days.
Having read all the glowing road tests of the recently launched car, I couldn’t wait to get behind the wheel.
Alas, I’m afraid it turned out to be rather a damp squib. If the 964 RS sounds like old tin cans (not sure what you’re referring to specifically ?) the Cayman R sounded like any other car on the road (but hey, at least by pressing a button you could make it sound “sporty”). And what a sporty noise it was. Not. Instead you got a slightly louder and more convoluted/synthesised version of the “basic” non-sport noise.
A word in your shell-like, get someone to take you out in a de-catted 964 RS, (preferably one fitted with a Cup pipe fitted) then you’ll know what “sporty” sounds like. But failing that, I’ll take you out for a spin in my Manthey modified GT3.
“But what if I don’t want the sporty noise all the time ?” you say. Simple, don’t tread on the loud pedal so heavily.
So my summation is thus : (apologies to all you Cayman owners, I know I’ve already offended some of you)
Steering ? Lifeless, lacking in weight, feedback and to a lesser degree, feel (not helped by the Bridgestone tyres I suspect).
Brakes ? Rather lacking in feel, pathetically small and looked lost behind the rather lovely 19” lightweight wheels.
Engine ? Dull, lacking in any real character, top end verve and a decent soundtrack.
Internal door pulls ? A joke (se my original post)
Interior ? Bland and generally lacking any sense of occasion.
The drive ? Very accomplished (but wait for it), dull. I had the car five days, but having driven it from Swindon back oop North, it sat forlornly on the drive for the duration, as I couldn’t muster sufficient enthusiasm to take it on a proper cross country hoon across N.Wales. How sad is that ?
Conclusion ? Just not special enough, too amorphous and too anodyne for my taste.
And for those not already bored, a brief Post Script : In the spring of last year several mates and I met up early one Sunday morning for a N.Wales hoon.
The cars that attended were my Manthey modified Mk 1 996 GT3, an unmodified Mk1 996 GT3 Clubsport, an M3 CSL, a 964 RS and a Boxster Spyder (AKA a ragtop Cayman R).
I got to be lead gunner in the morning, I thus led down roads I knew fairly well. The only car that managed to keep up with the Manthey GT3 ? The Boxster Spyder (albeit it’s brakes began to fade badly and then the pedal went rather spongy for the rest of the day)
There’s no doubting the modern cars are fast, the issue for me is they’ve become too bland, efficient and ultimately souless in doing so. (Datsun GTR anyone ?) That’s not to decry them for being so, that after all, is progress.
Effectively it’s a bit like saying a wood burner or an open fire is rubbish, because modern central heating or underfloor systems are so efficient , clean and fuss free, they have to be better. Too right, but I know which has more character when you're down the pub on a cold winters evening ……."
I have CR and by and large I would agree with many of your comments - compared to a GT3, it does sound dull (what doesn't?) and again, compared to a GT3 it's not as engaging to drive (although it is a very geo sensitive car - With good geo it has loads of feel and is much more interesting to drive as a result)."When my Slate grey Gen 1 GT3 went back to Swindon OPC for some warranty work, I requested a Cayman R as a loan car. Swindon were very accommodating and I found myself with the keys to an almost new GT Silver Cayman R for the next five days.
Having read all the glowing road tests of the recently launched car, I couldn’t wait to get behind the wheel.
Alas, I’m afraid it turned out to be rather a damp squib. If the 964 RS sounds like old tin cans (not sure what you’re referring to specifically ?) the Cayman R sounded like any other car on the road (but hey, at least by pressing a button you could make it sound “sporty”). And what a sporty noise it was. Not. Instead you got a slightly louder and more convoluted/synthesised version of the “basic” non-sport noise.
A word in your shell-like, get someone to take you out in a de-catted 964 RS, (preferably one fitted with a Cup pipe fitted) then you’ll know what “sporty” sounds like. But failing that, I’ll take you out for a spin in my Manthey modified GT3.
“But what if I don’t want the sporty noise all the time ?” you say. Simple, don’t tread on the loud pedal so heavily.
So my summation is thus : (apologies to all you Cayman owners, I know I’ve already offended some of you)
Steering ? Lifeless, lacking in weight, feedback and to a lesser degree, feel (not helped by the Bridgestone tyres I suspect).
Brakes ? Rather lacking in feel, pathetically small and looked lost behind the rather lovely 19” lightweight wheels.
Engine ? Dull, lacking in any real character, top end verve and a decent soundtrack.
Internal door pulls ? A joke (se my original post)
Interior ? Bland and generally lacking any sense of occasion.
The drive ? Very accomplished (but wait for it), dull. I had the car five days, but having driven it from Swindon back oop North, it sat forlornly on the drive for the duration, as I couldn’t muster sufficient enthusiasm to take it on a proper cross country hoon across N.Wales. How sad is that ?
Conclusion ? Just not special enough, too amorphous and too anodyne for my taste.
And for those not already bored, a brief Post Script : In the spring of last year several mates and I met up early one Sunday morning for a N.Wales hoon.
The cars that attended were my Manthey modified Mk 1 996 GT3, an unmodified Mk1 996 GT3 Clubsport, an M3 CSL, a 964 RS and a Boxster Spyder (AKA a ragtop Cayman R).
I got to be lead gunner in the morning, I thus led down roads I knew fairly well. The only car that managed to keep up with the Manthey GT3 ? The Boxster Spyder (albeit it’s brakes began to fade badly and then the pedal went rather spongy for the rest of the day)
There’s no doubting the modern cars are fast, the issue for me is they’ve become too bland, efficient and ultimately souless in doing so. (Datsun GTR anyone ?) That’s not to decry them for being so, that after all, is progress.
Effectively it’s a bit like saying a wood burner or an open fire is rubbish, because modern central heating or underfloor systems are so efficient , clean and fuss free, they have to be better. Too right, but I know which has more character when you're down the pub on a cold winters evening ……."
And although I'd concede that the interior is a bit dull. Compared to any 996 and 997 it's certainly no worse and if we're talking a 996 or gen 1 997, it's actually nicer. However, the engine noise is not actually dull in its own right, it has way more induction nouise than my old GTS and it's still a good steer, if not quite as good as a GT3. And it's quick (I know quick doesn't equal good but every little helps
).If you are coming from a 964 RS and a GT3 on perfect pool table roads, of cource the Cayman R is going to be somewhat of a disappointment.
Its a ROAD car, which you can use every day of the year on a variety of roads. I tried a 996 GT3 before I went for the R, and Im sorry but I would be f
king livid if I had to use that on some of our poorer roads, it jumps around too much for me - actually hampers how quick you can drive.
Bit on the uncomfortable side too, and Im only 30.
as for the 964 RS, a horrible road car. I actually dislike that car and can very much understand why the values were so low for quite a few years. Aside from trackdays, the C2 is a much nicer steer!
Its a ROAD car, which you can use every day of the year on a variety of roads. I tried a 996 GT3 before I went for the R, and Im sorry but I would be f
king livid if I had to use that on some of our poorer roads, it jumps around too much for me - actually hampers how quick you can drive.Bit on the uncomfortable side too, and Im only 30.
as for the 964 RS, a horrible road car. I actually dislike that car and can very much understand why the values were so low for quite a few years. Aside from trackdays, the C2 is a much nicer steer!
Looking at the examples for sale, it is interesting that in the summer of this year with very low mileage they were selling for around the £40k range.
All the ones that have sold recently with almost 30k miles on the clock have also been priced around the 39-40k range and we are in the middle of winter. I also noted that the one for sale at Cridfords was for sale for almost 2 months for £38,995 and then about 3 weeks ago the price was increased to £39,995 and was sold shortly after. The Paragon one also was for sale for around a month at £38,995 and they told me when I had a look that they don't negotiate on price, so must have gone near asking if not at asking.
For average mileage cars to be selling for around £39-40k in winter does suggest that the Evo article looks to be somewhat correct.
I guess we will see how they perform next year when spring / summer comes around and what happens with the GT4.
All the ones that have sold recently with almost 30k miles on the clock have also been priced around the 39-40k range and we are in the middle of winter. I also noted that the one for sale at Cridfords was for sale for almost 2 months for £38,995 and then about 3 weeks ago the price was increased to £39,995 and was sold shortly after. The Paragon one also was for sale for around a month at £38,995 and they told me when I had a look that they don't negotiate on price, so must have gone near asking if not at asking.
For average mileage cars to be selling for around £39-40k in winter does suggest that the Evo article looks to be somewhat correct.
I guess we will see how they perform next year when spring / summer comes around and what happens with the GT4.
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