Another question about N rated tyres

Another question about N rated tyres

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Discussion

Nurburgsingh

5,104 posts

237 months

Tuesday 26th August 2014
quotequote all
jamiemcwhir said:
It clearly looks like some information needs to feed down through to the centre's to advise consumers with the latest information. I will start investigating with my contact at Porsche today.

It looks clear some of you will never believe that the "N" marking is anything other than BS..
So I'm gonna give up the job of trying to convince..

I remain happy to answer any questions...
Jamie just to be clear my BS call was aimed at Porsche....

You've hit the nail on the head with the requirement for information to be passed down to the OPC's and to all tyre suppliers. From the end user point of view I've read more real information on these 6 pages than i have anywhere else in my 20 years of Porsche ownership. Its unfortunate that you've had to deal with us non believers, but looking at it from our point of view, no one at Porsche has ever given us a reason to believe them, they use the N rating to determine whether or not a car's warranty is valid. The internet is full of scare stories of insurance being invalid because you haven't got N rated tyres. So they've always been used as a big stick to beat the owners into submission.. hardly surprising that some of us feel the way we feel.

I fully appreciate you coming on here and providing us with the information you have. I'm still not convinced that the approach taken by Porsche Uk on the N rated tyres is correct, the CGT/Cayman and 'don't mix your N ratings' examples highlight this.

Am I convinced? - I know how much R&D goes into tyres, I'm convinced that there is a difference between an N rated tyre and a non N rated tyre. I'm NOT convinced that the difference is big enough for Porsche to say I can't use an N rated tyre without having some penalty applied.

Maybe whats needed to convince us non believers are some 'ring time comparisons thumbup

mrdemon

21,146 posts

264 months

Tuesday 26th August 2014
quotequote all
sidicks said:
The claim from Michelin is that the tyre has been tailored for the front of the CGT.

Why do you believe that suddenly makes the tyre any less appropriate for the rear of the Cayman than any other (non N-rated) tyre available in the appropriate size?
to requote the tyre man

"Fact I never claimed that the Carrera GT tyre is approved for the Cayman. Simply because it isn't"

it's NOT approved, if Porsche fit a NON approved tyre to a Cayman that's not great is it ?

mrdemon

21,146 posts

264 months

Tuesday 26th August 2014
quotequote all
jamiemcwhir said:
I remain happy to answer any questions...
Is the CGT tyre a bespoke tyre compound ?

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Tuesday 26th August 2014
quotequote all
mrdemon said:
to requote the tyre man

"Fact I never claimed that the Carrera GT tyre is approved for the Cayman. Simply because it isn't"

it's NOT approved, if Porsche fit a NON approved tyre to a Cayman that's not great is it ?
Ok understood.

Previously you appeared to be implying that purely the fact that the tyre had been tweaked for the CGT made it inappropriate for the Cayman.


homerdog

244 posts

230 months

Tuesday 26th August 2014
quotequote all
jamiemcwhir said:
Hence the same applies to the tyres. Yes, you can use the non N rated tyre. Yes the standard super sport will work. We are in development for PS2 N rated replacement tyres at present which we are aiming for sept 2015 launch. So there will be something for owners of Boxsters, Caymans 996's & 997's with an N marking.
So, in the meantime, are PS2 N rated tyres (which is what your configurator recommends) better suited to my Boxster than non-N rated PSS? For example, in terms of wear, grip and braking distances? Very interested to know, as I need some new tyres and I'd like to buy the right Michelins for my car!

Steve H

Original Poster:

5,224 posts

194 months

Wednesday 27th August 2014
quotequote all
My understanding is that PSS are considered better in most/all respects than PS2 irrespective of N ratings.

thegoose

8,075 posts

209 months

Wednesday 27th August 2014
quotequote all
Steve H said:
My understanding is that PSS are considered better in most/all respects than PS2 irrespective of N ratings.
Even Porsche themselves deem them the most suitable tyre to demonstrate their cars' abilities at the Porsche Experience Centre, despite not giving them the official N rating. banghead

I'd really like our Michelin man Jamie to comment on that too please. smile

Orangecurry

7,399 posts

205 months

Wednesday 27th August 2014
quotequote all
jamiemcwhir said:
I remain happy to answer any questions...
Dear Mr Michelin,

how about another specific example?

anonymous said:
[redacted]
225/40/18

Specifically tuned for which car? 996? 986? 993? 964?

265/35/18

Specifically tuned for which car? 996? 986? 993? 964?

285/30/18

Specifically tuned for which car? 996? 993T? 968?

Thanks!

Orangecurry

7,399 posts

205 months

Wednesday 27th August 2014
quotequote all
......unfortunately most of that data is in my head smash I only needed to check on the 968.

And the 17" tyres tell a similar story, but let's keep the list manageable to start with.

thegoose

8,075 posts

209 months

Wednesday 27th August 2014
quotequote all
I wasn't aware the 968 ever came with 18" wheels (except perhaps in Turbo or Turbo RS guise)?

Orangecurry

7,399 posts

205 months

Wednesday 27th August 2014
quotequote all
thegoose said:
I wasn't aware the 968 ever came with 18" wheels (except perhaps in Turbo or Turbo RS guise)?
Correct, Turbo S - but it's in the recommended tyres list.

Perhaps I should have asked the 17" question first (as that covers even more cooking-models), but I like to supply plenty of rope.

monthefish

20,439 posts

230 months

Wednesday 27th August 2014
quotequote all
jamiemcwhir said:
I remain happy to answer any questions...
I first learnt about Michelin Pilot Super Sports in an 'advertorial' feature in a Porsche Magazine (#911 & Porsche world' perhaps) around the time they were released.
The feature centred around how they were developed in conjunction with Porsche, "shared values" and all that marketing guff.
If that was the case, why weren't they 'N' rated from release?

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Wednesday 27th August 2014
quotequote all
N-rating is a complete joke, and everyone who has ever thought about it for more than about 2 minutes knows that the failure to approve more tyres results from either gross incompetence or a cynical attempt to rip of customers by narrowing the range of available tyres so that sourcing from elsewhere makes less sense.


thegoose

8,075 posts

209 months

Wednesday 27th August 2014
quotequote all
The MSA magazine, which is "the MSA magazine for British Motorsport" and sent to all competition licence holders, arrived this morning (Autumn 2014).

On page 4 is a full page advertisement from Michelin (so presumably "our" Michelin man on this thread either had something to do with it, or at least knew about it before publication).

The ad is below. Maybe someone else knows different, but as far as I know there isn't an N rated version of the Cup 2, meaning one hasn't been specially tuned/tweaked/modified/whatever to meet approval, yet Michelin are using it prominently in their own advertising. Seems a little hypocritical, no?


sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Wednesday 27th August 2014
quotequote all
thegoose said:
The ad is below. Maybe someone else knows different, but as far as I know there isn't an N rated version of the Cup 2, meaning one hasn't been specially tuned/tweaked/modified/whatever to meet approval, yet Michelin are using it prominently in their own advertising. Seems a little hypocritical, no?
Aren't all the 991 GT3's arriving on N-rated Cup 2's....
biggrin

Mine are N0.

Edited by sidicks on Wednesday 27th August 20:54

Nurburgsingh

5,104 posts

237 months

Wednesday 27th August 2014
quotequote all
sidicks said:
Aren't all the 991 GT3's arriving on N-rated Cup 2's....
biggrin
Yes they are... but I'm not sure its N rated for 18's yet which is what that 996 will be wearing.?

Its only recently been made available in 19's for the 997 GT3's

thegoose

8,075 posts

209 months

Wednesday 27th August 2014
quotequote all
I thought that might be the case, so they're promoting them on a car they're not designed for....or promoting using Porsche approved tyres in a diameter never approved for the model.

Either way, it does nothing for anyone's confidence in the alchemy and importance of the N rating system, rather it just further makes a nonsense of it.

Steve H

Original Poster:

5,224 posts

194 months

Wednesday 27th August 2014
quotequote all
OK people, I think we can all accept that it is a flawed system judge but I really only started the thread to ask what the difference was for the same tyre with/without the rating boxedin .

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Wednesday 27th August 2014
quotequote all
Steve H said:
OK people, I think we can all accept that it is a flawed system judge but I really only started the thread to ask what the difference was for the same tyre with/without the rating boxedin .
Nothing.

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Wednesday 27th August 2014
quotequote all
ORD said:
Nothing.
No.

Most likely a slightly different compound to give different wear / grip characteristics.