Another question about N rated tyres
Discussion
So I'm looking at a new set of rears for my Cayman S, it's currently running on SuperSports on the front that have done almost 15k and still have half left and a knackered set of Goodyears on the rear.
The fronts aren't available N rated (19"s) but it turns out you can get SuperSports for the rear with or without N rating and oddly the non-rated ones a a little more expensive
.
So the question is what's the difference, are the N rates ones a different compound, likely to wear quicker? Warranty isn't an issue and the fronts have been great for grip and wear so I'd be inclined to get the non-rated ones if there's any doubt……..
Ta
Steve H
The fronts aren't available N rated (19"s) but it turns out you can get SuperSports for the rear with or without N rating and oddly the non-rated ones a a little more expensive
.So the question is what's the difference, are the N rates ones a different compound, likely to wear quicker? Warranty isn't an issue and the fronts have been great for grip and wear so I'd be inclined to get the non-rated ones if there's any doubt……..
Ta
Steve H
Steve H said:
So I'm looking at a new set of rears for my Cayman S, it's currently running on SuperSports on the front that have done almost 15k and still have half left....
But more importantly than wear, how old are the fronts?If the opportunity is there, match the fronts to the rears.
Edited by Orangecurry on Friday 8th August 22:28
Apologies I missed this...
If the manufacturers would tell us, we could make an informed decision... but they won't, so we can't.
Screams stupidity to most people - if the Manufacturers said 'N-rated is better because...' then we'd all buy them.
So we are left with the conclusion that it is marketing.
Steve H said:
So the question is what's the difference...
Nobody will say.If the manufacturers would tell us, we could make an informed decision... but they won't, so we can't.
Screams stupidity to most people - if the Manufacturers said 'N-rated is better because...' then we'd all buy them.
So we are left with the conclusion that it is marketing.
Riyazc said:
Stick to N rated ones.
If u have an accident etc and insurance companies pick up on it they will claim it contributed as it was non-standard spec.
We all know those guys are weasels at the best of times, best not give them any reasons to point the finger.
That has never happened. It is a myth.If u have an accident etc and insurance companies pick up on it they will claim it contributed as it was non-standard spec.
We all know those guys are weasels at the best of times, best not give them any reasons to point the finger.
mollytherocker said:
Riyazc said:
Stick to N rated ones.
If u have an accident etc and insurance companies pick up on it they will claim it contributed as it was non-standard spec.
We all know those guys are weasels at the best of times, best not give them any reasons to point the finger.
That has never happened. It is a myth.If u have an accident etc and insurance companies pick up on it they will claim it contributed as it was non-standard spec.
We all know those guys are weasels at the best of times, best not give them any reasons to point the finger.
The best info I have is N-rated tires have been tested by Porsche and approved for use with its cars. The testing ensures grip under various conditions, and other performance metrics are on par with what Porsche expects.
Various safety systems like ABS and PSM are not going to be affected by staying with N-rated tires.
If a tire is not N-rated it either wasn't submitted for testing or was tested and found wanting.
I hardly doubt it is Porsche's attempt to wring more money from its customers and benefit some few anointed tire makers at the expense of Porsche car owners.
While I have gone through countless tires on my Porsches they have all been N-rated and matched.
While I have no experience with non N-rated tires I have read enough posts by those that have gone off the N-rated tire reservation and reported car feel compromised or some other negative about the non N-rate tires. Not everyone mind you but enough to convince me I do not want to experiment with my cars and their handling, grip, and what have you.
Some reading:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.js...
http://www.momentumporsche.com/tires.htm
Various safety systems like ABS and PSM are not going to be affected by staying with N-rated tires.
If a tire is not N-rated it either wasn't submitted for testing or was tested and found wanting.
I hardly doubt it is Porsche's attempt to wring more money from its customers and benefit some few anointed tire makers at the expense of Porsche car owners.
While I have gone through countless tires on my Porsches they have all been N-rated and matched.
While I have no experience with non N-rated tires I have read enough posts by those that have gone off the N-rated tire reservation and reported car feel compromised or some other negative about the non N-rate tires. Not everyone mind you but enough to convince me I do not want to experiment with my cars and their handling, grip, and what have you.
Some reading:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.js...
http://www.momentumporsche.com/tires.htm
It's to stop people fitting £40 tyres.
michelin tyres will state the pss are fine for you porsche and were tested with Porsche and are a better tyre than the ps2 which is the best n spec tyre any way, that's the bulls
t of it.
Most top branded cars now use pilot super sports.
Porsche need to let us also use them.
michelin tyres will state the pss are fine for you porsche and were tested with Porsche and are a better tyre than the ps2 which is the best n spec tyre any way, that's the bulls
t of it. Most top branded cars now use pilot super sports.
Porsche need to let us also use them.
Well
As the Technical Manager for Michelin in the UK, I will try and put this to bed once and for all, however this is highly unlikely...
N rating, or * BMW, MO Mercedes or K Ferrari, or similar is simply a homologation marking. What does that mean? Well quite simply the tyre has been approved by the manufacturer and very likely tweaked or tuned by the tyre manufacturer, in order to optimize the tyre and vehicle interaction. The easiest way of thinking of it is an off the peg suit (standard tyre) versus the bespoke suit (the tuned homologated tyre). Now as you are all discussing, while the standard suit will look right a bespoke suit will always be fitted just for you.
Hence the same applies to the tyres. Yes, you can use the non N rated tyre. Yes the standard super sport will work. We are in development for PS2 N rated replacement tyres at present which we are aiming for sept 2015 launch. So there will be something for owners of Boxsters, Caymans 996's & 997's with an N marking.Please don't ask me for specifics as I can't share more than that at this stage
What makes the approved tyres different? In the majority of cases its a tuning of the compound or construction (sometimes both) to make the tyres work better on the cars. I can't be more specific, as it really varies tyre to tyre.
For Porsche it's tied into their warranty, but I do know than not all Porsche dealers enforce it the same way.
It's not a marketing con, and not a way to make more money. Believe me all tyre manufacturers aim to keep their product catalogue simple and less complex, from a production and logistics view. Having los of different variants of a tyre make life far from simple. However when we do tune a tyre for a vehicle it will make a difference to it's performance and that's what the manufacturers want for their cars and to some extent for the owners of the cars too.
So I hope that provides slightly more information, but feel free to ask me and if I can help I will
Jamie
As the Technical Manager for Michelin in the UK, I will try and put this to bed once and for all, however this is highly unlikely...
N rating, or * BMW, MO Mercedes or K Ferrari, or similar is simply a homologation marking. What does that mean? Well quite simply the tyre has been approved by the manufacturer and very likely tweaked or tuned by the tyre manufacturer, in order to optimize the tyre and vehicle interaction. The easiest way of thinking of it is an off the peg suit (standard tyre) versus the bespoke suit (the tuned homologated tyre). Now as you are all discussing, while the standard suit will look right a bespoke suit will always be fitted just for you.
Hence the same applies to the tyres. Yes, you can use the non N rated tyre. Yes the standard super sport will work. We are in development for PS2 N rated replacement tyres at present which we are aiming for sept 2015 launch. So there will be something for owners of Boxsters, Caymans 996's & 997's with an N marking.Please don't ask me for specifics as I can't share more than that at this stage
What makes the approved tyres different? In the majority of cases its a tuning of the compound or construction (sometimes both) to make the tyres work better on the cars. I can't be more specific, as it really varies tyre to tyre.
For Porsche it's tied into their warranty, but I do know than not all Porsche dealers enforce it the same way.
It's not a marketing con, and not a way to make more money. Believe me all tyre manufacturers aim to keep their product catalogue simple and less complex, from a production and logistics view. Having los of different variants of a tyre make life far from simple. However when we do tune a tyre for a vehicle it will make a difference to it's performance and that's what the manufacturers want for their cars and to some extent for the owners of the cars too.
So I hope that provides slightly more information, but feel free to ask me and if I can help I will
Jamie
"However when we do tune a tyre for a vehicle it will make a difference to it's performance and that's what the manufacturers want for their cars and to some extent for the owners of the cars too.
"
Sorry Jamie but the 265/35/19 PSS N0 was made for the CGT front wheel.
Porsche have it listed as a fitment for a REAR CAYMAN and are happy to fit is as it's on there system.
BUT as it was not tuned to be on the rear of a Cayman and was so called tuned to be on the front of a CGT, I have to say N spec is laughable at best.
As for the bespoke suit, I'll take non N spec PSS for my Cayman over PS2 N spec tyre every time, it's the better tyre, Having the N spec is like wearing a 1980's bespoke suit which makes you look a idiot.
Or like the Tyres which Porsche will allow you to fit, borrowing your mate bespoke 48" chest suit for your 42" chest body.
"
Sorry Jamie but the 265/35/19 PSS N0 was made for the CGT front wheel.
Porsche have it listed as a fitment for a REAR CAYMAN and are happy to fit is as it's on there system.
BUT as it was not tuned to be on the rear of a Cayman and was so called tuned to be on the front of a CGT, I have to say N spec is laughable at best.
As for the bespoke suit, I'll take non N spec PSS for my Cayman over PS2 N spec tyre every time, it's the better tyre, Having the N spec is like wearing a 1980's bespoke suit which makes you look a idiot.
Or like the Tyres which Porsche will allow you to fit, borrowing your mate bespoke 48" chest suit for your 42" chest body.
Edited by mrdemon on Tuesday 12th August 16:49
jamiemcwhir said:
Well
As the Technical Manager for Michelin in the UK, I will try and put this to bed once and for all, however this is highly unlikely...
N rating, or * BMW, MO Mercedes or K Ferrari, or similar is simply a homologation marking. What does that mean? Well quite simply the tyre has been approved by the manufacturer and very likely tweaked or tuned by the tyre manufacturer, in order to optimize the tyre and vehicle interaction. The easiest way of thinking of it is an off the peg suit (standard tyre) versus the bespoke suit (the tuned homologated tyre). Now as you are all discussing, while the standard suit will look right a bespoke suit will always be fitted just for you.
Hence the same applies to the tyres. Yes, you can use the non N rated tyre. Yes the standard super sport will work. We are in development for PS2 N rated replacement tyres at present which we are aiming for sept 2015 launch. So there will be something for owners of Boxsters, Caymans 996's & 997's with an N marking.Please don't ask me for specifics as I can't share more than that at this stage
What makes the approved tyres different? In the majority of cases its a tuning of the compound or construction (sometimes both) to make the tyres work better on the cars. I can't be more specific, as it really varies tyre to tyre.
For Porsche it's tied into their warranty, but I do know than not all Porsche dealers enforce it the same way.
It's not a marketing con, and not a way to make more money. Believe me all tyre manufacturers aim to keep their product catalogue simple and less complex, from a production and logistics view. Having los of different variants of a tyre make life far from simple. However when we do tune a tyre for a vehicle it will make a difference to it's performance and that's what the manufacturers want for their cars and to some extent for the owners of the cars too.
So I hope that provides slightly more information, but feel free to ask me and if I can help I will
Jamie
Thanks for an explanation. I appreciate that much of the frustration is probably aimed at Porsche and not Michelin.As the Technical Manager for Michelin in the UK, I will try and put this to bed once and for all, however this is highly unlikely...
N rating, or * BMW, MO Mercedes or K Ferrari, or similar is simply a homologation marking. What does that mean? Well quite simply the tyre has been approved by the manufacturer and very likely tweaked or tuned by the tyre manufacturer, in order to optimize the tyre and vehicle interaction. The easiest way of thinking of it is an off the peg suit (standard tyre) versus the bespoke suit (the tuned homologated tyre). Now as you are all discussing, while the standard suit will look right a bespoke suit will always be fitted just for you.
Hence the same applies to the tyres. Yes, you can use the non N rated tyre. Yes the standard super sport will work. We are in development for PS2 N rated replacement tyres at present which we are aiming for sept 2015 launch. So there will be something for owners of Boxsters, Caymans 996's & 997's with an N marking.Please don't ask me for specifics as I can't share more than that at this stage
What makes the approved tyres different? In the majority of cases its a tuning of the compound or construction (sometimes both) to make the tyres work better on the cars. I can't be more specific, as it really varies tyre to tyre.
For Porsche it's tied into their warranty, but I do know than not all Porsche dealers enforce it the same way.
It's not a marketing con, and not a way to make more money. Believe me all tyre manufacturers aim to keep their product catalogue simple and less complex, from a production and logistics view. Having los of different variants of a tyre make life far from simple. However when we do tune a tyre for a vehicle it will make a difference to it's performance and that's what the manufacturers want for their cars and to some extent for the owners of the cars too.
So I hope that provides slightly more information, but feel free to ask me and if I can help I will
Jamie
The challenge is not knowing the degree of customisation and its benefits for the user.
It's like there are fully bespoke suits and there are 'standard pattern' where a few panels can be changed.
So if Porsche said that 'the compound on our GT3 spec tyre provides better turn in than standard version, or has extra dry grip worth 2 sec a lap, or is safer at 160mph....but you can use the std one too' then we can make an informed decision.
If Porsche (and or Michelin) really felt that a non-N spec tyre is unsafe then we can make an informed decision.
Right now for the consumer there is a very simple choice:
Do I need a warranty - fit N spec
Do I not a warranty - fit whatever you can get delivered to time/convenience/cost. Usually these are non N spec but well known tyres and brands
None of the above is about performance or fit. The GT3 contingent will use all sorts at all sorts of speed and stress levels...so far no adverse reports related to non-N spec use.
Hi Jamie, thanks for posting up a direct answer, you were never going to be over popular due to the general dislike of the system but I'm not here to shoot the messenger!
In my case I'm particularly interested in wear rates when compared with the non-N-rated PSS of the some size as the N rated that are available for my car are (as has been suggested) not really designed for it anyway. Would you be able to enlighten us on the difference in compounds and wear rates?
In my case I'm particularly interested in wear rates when compared with the non-N-rated PSS of the some size as the N rated that are available for my car are (as has been suggested) not really designed for it anyway. Would you be able to enlighten us on the difference in compounds and wear rates?
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