Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2
Discussion
jamiemcwhir said:
- The carrera GT spec front tyre won't have been tested to my knowledge on your cayman. As the homologations are car specific. I suppose in some way that shows some frustration that the dealer may approve a tyre for your car just as it's got an N rating on the side and not the right N marking for your car.
So there is the rub, Porsche UK don't give a dam about the tyre as long as it's N ratedany N rated tyre will go on the front or back of any Porsche model, it's even a listed tyre on the Porsche computer for the Cayman !!!
I would be better off fitting non N spec PSS 265/35/19 to my car, My N spec front CGT tyre could be a ditch finder on the rear of my car !!!
jamiemcwhir said:
Hi 911p
Good news
What we have is 235/40-18 Cup2 and 295/30-18 Cup2 launched June 2014
I don't know what stock levels are, but we have launched them. Both Non N rated however
how up to date is the sizing/availability information on www.michelin.co.uk?Good news
What we have is 235/40-18 Cup2 and 295/30-18 Cup2 launched June 2014
I don't know what stock levels are, but we have launched them. Both Non N rated however
Any idea when 255/40 R18 and 285/35 R18 sizes (Mercedes CLS 55 AMG sizes) will be available for the Pilot Super Sport?
when will 997.2 GT3 Pilot Super Sport tyres (235/35 19 and 305/30 19) be available N rated?
mrdemon said:
So there is the rub, Porsche UK don't give a dam about the tyre as long as it's N rated
any N rated tyre will go on the front or back of any Porsche model, it's even a listed tyre on the Porsche computer for the Cayman !!!
I would be better off fitting non N spec PSS 265/35/19 to my car, My N spec front CGT tyre could be a ditch finder on the rear of my car !!!
We all know you have your panties in a wad about this. But this is as close to a real world application of the saying "don't shoot the messenger" as you are ever going to get. This is a Porsche issue. Not a Michelin issue.any N rated tyre will go on the front or back of any Porsche model, it's even a listed tyre on the Porsche computer for the Cayman !!!
I would be better off fitting non N spec PSS 265/35/19 to my car, My N spec front CGT tyre could be a ditch finder on the rear of my car !!!
I would say thank you very much for the information and then go and rant at your local Porsche dealer. Or better still, take Jamie up on his kind offer of either a) arranging to call your OPC to discuss the issue with them or b) ask him which dealer he recommends going to that do not enforce N-rating policy so closely to the letter.
Jack
jamiemcwhir said:
Jack
Yes, there is a difference in the majority of cases, we tune Compound or carcass or both. N marking can also signify other differences e.g. pattern or slight dimensional changes (within ETRTO tolerances)
So yes, they are different to a Non N marked tyre. Doesn't mean the Non N marked tyre is wrong, it's just not optimized for the car
Thank you very much for that clarification.Yes, there is a difference in the majority of cases, we tune Compound or carcass or both. N marking can also signify other differences e.g. pattern or slight dimensional changes (within ETRTO tolerances)
So yes, they are different to a Non N marked tyre. Doesn't mean the Non N marked tyre is wrong, it's just not optimized for the car
Jack
jackwood said:
mrdemon said:
So there is the rub, Porsche UK don't give a dam about the tyre as long as it's N rated
any N rated tyre will go on the front or back of any Porsche model, it's even a listed tyre on the Porsche computer for the Cayman !!!
I would be better off fitting non N spec PSS 265/35/19 to my car, My N spec front CGT tyre could be a ditch finder on the rear of my car !!!
We all know you have your panties in a wad about this. But this is as close to a real world application of the saying "don't shoot the messenger" as you are ever going to get. This is a Porsche issue. Not a Michelin issue.any N rated tyre will go on the front or back of any Porsche model, it's even a listed tyre on the Porsche computer for the Cayman !!!
I would be better off fitting non N spec PSS 265/35/19 to my car, My N spec front CGT tyre could be a ditch finder on the rear of my car !!!
I would say thank you very much for the information and then go and rant at your local Porsche dealer. Or better still, take Jamie up on his kind offer of either a) arranging to call your OPC to discuss the issue with them or b) ask him which dealer he recommends going to that do not enforce N-rating policy so closely to the letter.
Jack
LaSource said:
jackwood said:
I would say thank you very much for the information and then go and rant at your local Porsche dealer. Or better still, take Jamie up on his kind offer of either a) arranging to call your OPC to discuss the issue with them or b) ask him which dealer he recommends going to that do not enforce N-rating policy so closely to the letter.
Jack
+1Jack
SFO said:
how up to date is the sizing/availability information on www.michelin.co.uk?
Any idea when 255/40 R18 and 285/35 R18 sizes (Mercedes CLS 55 AMG sizes) will be available for the Pilot Super Sport?
when will 997.2 GT3 Pilot Super Sport tyres (235/35 19 and 305/30 19) be available N rated?
OkAny idea when 255/40 R18 and 285/35 R18 sizes (Mercedes CLS 55 AMG sizes) will be available for the Pilot Super Sport?
when will 997.2 GT3 Pilot Super Sport tyres (235/35 19 and 305/30 19) be available N rated?
Mercedes
255/40-18 PSS Available
285/35-18 PS3 MO (no PSS sorry) but you could go 295/35-18 PSS which is the rear tyre for a Mclaren SLR, suffice to say it's 10mm wider and approx 5mm taller radius. But that's closest..
Porsche
Cup2 N0 in 235/35-19 and 305/30-19 Launched in July this year, so should be available
jamiemcwhir said:
Ok
Mercedes
255/40-18 PSS Available
285/35-18 PS3 MO (no PSS sorry) but you could go 295/35-18 PSS which is the rear tyre for a Mclaren SLR, suffice to say it's 10mm wider and approx 5mm taller radius. But that's closest..
Porsche
Cup2 N0 in 235/35-19 and 305/30-19 Launched in July this year, so should be available
Thanks.Mercedes
255/40-18 PSS Available
285/35-18 PS3 MO (no PSS sorry) but you could go 295/35-18 PSS which is the rear tyre for a Mclaren SLR, suffice to say it's 10mm wider and approx 5mm taller radius. But that's closest..
Porsche
Cup2 N0 in 235/35-19 and 305/30-19 Launched in July this year, so should be available
Cup2 N0 235/35 19 and 305/30 19 not showing as available on www.michelin.co.uk
What about Pilot Super Sport for 235/35 19 and 305/30 19 with N rating (I have non N rated PSS in these sizes on my 997.2 GT3 at the moment)? Any plan for this? If so, when?
Well - to chime in : I have been using the Cup2 since March and I don't see myself putting anything else on the car for the foreseeable future. Some notes to add to the comments that others have made.
In cold weather I found that they seem to take a bit more work to get up to temp/pressure than the older cups and they at least seem to come back down quicker when you park up. They also seem to drop temp/pressure quicker in the wet when it starts raining. The suspicion is that there is less metal in the carcass to sink heat into but I really don't know for sure. Jamie may have an answer to that? Switch from steel to kevlar belts or something along those lines?
They seem to be a bit more pressure sensitive than the older cups too. I am finding that you want about 29-31psi in the front and 31-33psi in the rear so far. As little as 3 pounds over that I find the drop off in grip rather pronounced. They seem to hold okay when below that (i.e. when bringing them back up after a break) implying very strong sidewalls, but I don't expect that it would be a good idea to put too much load through them below 2 bar? This is relevant as due to the slower heat build up you will want them almost worryingly low when leaving the pits if you are going to do a long run and are going to take a number of laps to get them up to where you want them. Otherwise they are going to get somewhat squirmy... (This is talking on track - hot obviously. 28-31 cold for road driving and just let them come up to whatever).
Rain. In the wet they are night and day better than the Cup and Cup+. They are not even a problem when driving in M&S luxury Belgian rain on the E40 - conditions in which previous cups can be way beyond unsettling. On track in very wet conditions they are consistent and work well - I haven't been as happy driving in heavy rain on a track since back when I used to use PS2s on my old 996... This much alone is grounds to recommend them.
Longevity. Compared to Cup+, you are talking about maybe 4 more track days worth of wear to get to the tread depth that the Cup+ has when new I reckon. In terms of cost effectiveness, even at "reduced to clear" pricing the older tyres make no sense at all any more.
In cold weather I found that they seem to take a bit more work to get up to temp/pressure than the older cups and they at least seem to come back down quicker when you park up. They also seem to drop temp/pressure quicker in the wet when it starts raining. The suspicion is that there is less metal in the carcass to sink heat into but I really don't know for sure. Jamie may have an answer to that? Switch from steel to kevlar belts or something along those lines?
They seem to be a bit more pressure sensitive than the older cups too. I am finding that you want about 29-31psi in the front and 31-33psi in the rear so far. As little as 3 pounds over that I find the drop off in grip rather pronounced. They seem to hold okay when below that (i.e. when bringing them back up after a break) implying very strong sidewalls, but I don't expect that it would be a good idea to put too much load through them below 2 bar? This is relevant as due to the slower heat build up you will want them almost worryingly low when leaving the pits if you are going to do a long run and are going to take a number of laps to get them up to where you want them. Otherwise they are going to get somewhat squirmy... (This is talking on track - hot obviously. 28-31 cold for road driving and just let them come up to whatever).
Rain. In the wet they are night and day better than the Cup and Cup+. They are not even a problem when driving in M&S luxury Belgian rain on the E40 - conditions in which previous cups can be way beyond unsettling. On track in very wet conditions they are consistent and work well - I haven't been as happy driving in heavy rain on a track since back when I used to use PS2s on my old 996... This much alone is grounds to recommend them.
Longevity. Compared to Cup+, you are talking about maybe 4 more track days worth of wear to get to the tread depth that the Cup+ has when new I reckon. In terms of cost effectiveness, even at "reduced to clear" pricing the older tyres make no sense at all any more.
DiscoColin said:
Well - to chime in : I have been using the Cup2 since March and I don't see myself putting anything else on the car for the foreseeable future. Some notes to add to the comments that others have made.
In cold weather I found that they seem to take a bit more work to get up to temp/pressure than the older cups and they at least seem to come back down quicker when you park up. They also seem to drop temp/pressure quicker in the wet when it starts raining. The suspicion is that there is less metal in the carcass to sink heat into but I really don't know for sure. Jamie may have an answer to that? Switch from steel to kevlar belts or something along those lines?
They seem to be a bit more pressure sensitive than the older cups too. I am finding that you want about 29-31psi in the front and 31-33psi in the rear so far. As little as 3 pounds over that I find the drop off in grip rather pronounced. They seem to hold okay when below that (i.e. when bringing them back up after a break) implying very strong sidewalls, but I don't expect that it would be a good idea to put too much load through them below 2 bar? This is relevant as due to the slower heat build up you will want them almost worryingly low when leaving the pits if you are going to do a long run and are going to take a number of laps to get them up to where you want them. Otherwise they are going to get somewhat squirmy... (This is talking on track - hot obviously. 28-31 cold for road driving and just let them come up to whatever).
Rain. In the wet they are night and day better than the Cup and Cup+. They are not even a problem when driving in M&S luxury Belgian rain on the E40 - conditions in which previous cups can be way beyond unsettling. On track in very wet conditions they are consistent and work well - I haven't been as happy driving in heavy rain on a track since back when I used to use PS2s on my old 996... This much alone is grounds to recommend them.
Longevity. Compared to Cup+, you are talking about maybe 4 more track days worth of wear to get to the tread depth that the Cup+ has when new I reckon. In terms of cost effectiveness, even at "reduced to clear" pricing the older tyres make no sense at all any more.
Hi Colin, thanks for the feedback. You are fairly on the money. There isn't a lot of steel in them but the NST's (first two support reinforcing belts which lie at ~45degrees to the direction of travel) are steel. In cold weather I found that they seem to take a bit more work to get up to temp/pressure than the older cups and they at least seem to come back down quicker when you park up. They also seem to drop temp/pressure quicker in the wet when it starts raining. The suspicion is that there is less metal in the carcass to sink heat into but I really don't know for sure. Jamie may have an answer to that? Switch from steel to kevlar belts or something along those lines?
They seem to be a bit more pressure sensitive than the older cups too. I am finding that you want about 29-31psi in the front and 31-33psi in the rear so far. As little as 3 pounds over that I find the drop off in grip rather pronounced. They seem to hold okay when below that (i.e. when bringing them back up after a break) implying very strong sidewalls, but I don't expect that it would be a good idea to put too much load through them below 2 bar? This is relevant as due to the slower heat build up you will want them almost worryingly low when leaving the pits if you are going to do a long run and are going to take a number of laps to get them up to where you want them. Otherwise they are going to get somewhat squirmy... (This is talking on track - hot obviously. 28-31 cold for road driving and just let them come up to whatever).
Rain. In the wet they are night and day better than the Cup and Cup+. They are not even a problem when driving in M&S luxury Belgian rain on the E40 - conditions in which previous cups can be way beyond unsettling. On track in very wet conditions they are consistent and work well - I haven't been as happy driving in heavy rain on a track since back when I used to use PS2s on my old 996... This much alone is grounds to recommend them.
Longevity. Compared to Cup+, you are talking about maybe 4 more track days worth of wear to get to the tread depth that the Cup+ has when new I reckon. In terms of cost effectiveness, even at "reduced to clear" pricing the older tyres make no sense at all any more.
What you are experiencing with the slow warm up from cold is due to the temperature window. If we consider all rubber polymers they have a "glass transition temperature Tg" Now, where that temperature is governs the peak operating windows of compounds. So with a tyre like the Cup2 which needs to have a higher peak operating window (as they run hot on the track) the bottom end of the window will mean until you get a bit of heat into them you won't have peak grip. So it's very much part of basic chemistry..
As they are bi-compound, the inner compounds works differently, so gives you the wet grip at a lower temperature.
On pressures I certainly wouldn't recommend anyone giving them any load and stress at all under 1.5bar (21psi) we say that is the MINIMUM cold pressure. and the information below is from a presentation we have on what to do on track:
- The optimal operating pressure of the MICHELIN Pilot Sport Cup2 must be between 2.3 bar (33 psi) and 2.5 bar (36 psi) Front & Rear
- Never allow the tyres to run below 2,0 bar (29 psi) HOT
SFO said:
Thanks.
Cup2 N0 235/35 19 and 305/30 19 not showing as available on www.michelin.co.uk
What about Pilot Super Sport for 235/35 19 and 305/30 19 with N rating (I have non N rated PSS in these sizes on my 997.2 GT3 at the moment)? Any plan for this? If so, when?
It is all dependant upon the process in place at the moment on PSS aproval for the 991 facelift. 2015 earliest.. and likely to be late on 2015. Sorry I can't be more precise, but the cristal ball is a bit foggy today..Cup2 N0 235/35 19 and 305/30 19 not showing as available on www.michelin.co.uk
What about Pilot Super Sport for 235/35 19 and 305/30 19 with N rating (I have non N rated PSS in these sizes on my 997.2 GT3 at the moment)? Any plan for this? If so, when?
jamiemcwhir said:
SFO said:
Thanks.
Cup2 N0 235/35 19 and 305/30 19 not showing as available on www.michelin.co.uk
What about Pilot Super Sport for 235/35 19 and 305/30 19 with N rating (I have non N rated PSS in these sizes on my 997.2 GT3 at the moment)? Any plan for this? If so, when?
It is all dependant upon the process in place at the moment on PSS aproval for the 991 facelift. 2015 earliest.. and likely to be late on 2015. Sorry I can't be more precise, but the cristal ball is a bit foggy today..Cup2 N0 235/35 19 and 305/30 19 not showing as available on www.michelin.co.uk
What about Pilot Super Sport for 235/35 19 and 305/30 19 with N rating (I have non N rated PSS in these sizes on my 997.2 GT3 at the moment)? Any plan for this? If so, when?
at least it is in the pipeline.
jamiemcwhir said:
...On pressures I certainly wouldn't recommend anyone giving them any load and stress at all under 1.5bar (21psi) we say that is the MINIMUM cold pressure. and the information below is from a presentation we have on what to do on track:
- The optimal operating pressure of the MICHELIN Pilot Sport Cup2 must be between 2.3 bar (33 psi) and 2.5 bar (36 psi) Front & Rear
- Never allow the tyres to run below 2,0 bar (29 psi) HOT
Nice. Thanks for that Jamie.- The optimal operating pressure of the MICHELIN Pilot Sport Cup2 must be between 2.3 bar (33 psi) and 2.5 bar (36 psi) Front & Rear
- Never allow the tyres to run below 2,0 bar (29 psi) HOT
Which Michelin tyre would you recommend on a 2000 Boxster S 986 ( Road use only )
Searching the web did not bring up any suitable sizes.
Handbook says :
225/40 ZR 18 Front
265/35 ZR 18 Rear
Currently has Pirelli on the front and Conti on the rear. These are what were on the car when I bought it a month ago, would like to replace the fronts first.
Thank you
Paul
Searching the web did not bring up any suitable sizes.
Handbook says :
225/40 ZR 18 Front
265/35 ZR 18 Rear
Currently has Pirelli on the front and Conti on the rear. These are what were on the car when I bought it a month ago, would like to replace the fronts first.
Thank you
Paul
LuckyP said:
jamiemcwhir said:
...On pressures I certainly wouldn't recommend anyone giving them any load and stress at all under 1.5bar (21psi) we say that is the MINIMUM cold pressure. and the information below is from a presentation we have on what to do on track:
- The optimal operating pressure of the MICHELIN Pilot Sport Cup2 must be between 2.3 bar (33 psi) and 2.5 bar (36 psi) Front & Rear
- Never allow the tyres to run below 2,0 bar (29 psi) HOT
Nice. Thanks for that Jamie.- The optimal operating pressure of the MICHELIN Pilot Sport Cup2 must be between 2.3 bar (33 psi) and 2.5 bar (36 psi) Front & Rear
- Never allow the tyres to run below 2,0 bar (29 psi) HOT
Just fitted Cup 2's on the front of my 997 GT2, size is 235/35 R19's N0 and have to say the first 60 miles after fitting and the car feels transformed, I think the previous Cup+ tyres that were on were past their usable life and despite still being legal appear to have hardened somewhat and where also incredibly noisy compared to these.
The ride feels more compliant but also feels more planted, they also look great on on the car with the logo standing out in black velvet, I almost can't wait to wear out the rears now which I replaced just a few months ago with 325/30 Cup+ N2's
The ride feels more compliant but also feels more planted, they also look great on on the car with the logo standing out in black velvet, I almost can't wait to wear out the rears now which I replaced just a few months ago with 325/30 Cup+ N2's
Agree with the majority view. Had Cup2's on my 991GT3 and found them a big step up from the Cup,s on my 997 GT3 especially road noise and wear rate on the road. Good on track but wear rate dramatically worse when pushed, never had that problem with the 997. incidentally I have a pair of brand new unused fronts for the 991 in the garage 245/35/20's PM me if interested. Sold the car now.
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