991GT3 - weird bit of noise after the engine swap
Discussion
Has anyone, by any chance, experienced a strange type of "clutter/klack/rattle" (not sure how to define) noise coming from the RH rear side of the car (engine bay, suspension?) after the engine exchange?
Firstly, it becomes very clearly audible (almost as if isolated from the rest of the car) only after everything gets to working temperatures (10-15 minutes of driving). Secondly, it can be heard only as and when there is a fairly pronounced ripple on the road and the read end of the car 'jumps" a little bit that moment. The noise is very articulate and "decisive" as if something was a bit loose somewhere in the back. No functional or mechanical consequence or malfunctioning of anything present, simply a damn nuisance. All quiet under other conditions, even manholes or usual road imperfections do not have an effect.
As soon as the car has cooled down even a little (20-30 minutes), it goes away and comes back in the described manner. Evidently, something happens after thermal expansion - combination of metal/plastic rattling subjectively to my ears.
Apart from the rear PU and the backbone/tailpipe end of the exhaust, very little else has been removed from the car for the engine swap, even the cats came new bolted on to the new engine. Yes, the gearbox had to be taken off, but that is a solid connection to the engine. The only other thing disturbed were the driveshafts and a few points of rear suspension (if I am not wrong). So, not much else to be loose or to flap around.
Oh, almost forgot - this was most certainly not to be heard before the engine replacement.
Tks in advance.
Firstly, it becomes very clearly audible (almost as if isolated from the rest of the car) only after everything gets to working temperatures (10-15 minutes of driving). Secondly, it can be heard only as and when there is a fairly pronounced ripple on the road and the read end of the car 'jumps" a little bit that moment. The noise is very articulate and "decisive" as if something was a bit loose somewhere in the back. No functional or mechanical consequence or malfunctioning of anything present, simply a damn nuisance. All quiet under other conditions, even manholes or usual road imperfections do not have an effect.
As soon as the car has cooled down even a little (20-30 minutes), it goes away and comes back in the described manner. Evidently, something happens after thermal expansion - combination of metal/plastic rattling subjectively to my ears.
Apart from the rear PU and the backbone/tailpipe end of the exhaust, very little else has been removed from the car for the engine swap, even the cats came new bolted on to the new engine. Yes, the gearbox had to be taken off, but that is a solid connection to the engine. The only other thing disturbed were the driveshafts and a few points of rear suspension (if I am not wrong). So, not much else to be loose or to flap around.
Oh, almost forgot - this was most certainly not to be heard before the engine replacement.
Tks in advance.
One and only thing I will most certainly NOT do, is let an OPC 'investigate' (as you kindly called it). Their alchemist, rather the knowledgeable approach to 'rectifications' is a well known route to more issues rather than less. They have verified the presence of the issue themselves and we shall see whether any wisdom comes out of it before I let them touch the car.
There is no doubt in my mind (and I am not technically and mechanically illiterate) this is a small and easily solved thing - one just needs to have a good idea where and what to look for. Which may take time, but certainly to repeated waste of time and unnecessary 'testing' miles driven. Guinea Pig-gigging not my favourite hobby.
As you say, not many on the road, but enough of them to have had the engine replaced. If my one is the only one exhibiting the described "byproduct", all is good and well.
Thank you for the comment and, in principle, what should be the right idea and course of action.
There is no doubt in my mind (and I am not technically and mechanically illiterate) this is a small and easily solved thing - one just needs to have a good idea where and what to look for. Which may take time, but certainly to repeated waste of time and unnecessary 'testing' miles driven. Guinea Pig-gigging not my favourite hobby.
As you say, not many on the road, but enough of them to have had the engine replaced. If my one is the only one exhibiting the described "byproduct", all is good and well.
Thank you for the comment and, in principle, what should be the right idea and course of action.
I don't know where you are based, but as a further suggestion why don't you get the guys at Reading to have a look at it for you if you don't have full faith in your local OPC? I took my GT3 to them when it had a coolant issue and they were very good. Small things the normal OPC network can handle, niggly faults etc - try Reading.
End of the day, you have bought a brand new car with a warranty - if you don't trust the manufacturers authorised dealers, take it to the manufacturers dealer (Reading). If you don't trust them, drive it back to Stuttgart. Not to stereotype but most owners of a £120k brand new sports cars are probably not going to be jacking them up and looking for funny noises coming from the engine compartment, they will drive them or get them recovered back to Porsche and let them deal with it. With respect, it's the price you pay for having a new model/derivative, the first are always the guinie pig cases.
How are you finding the car outside of engine/Noise problems?
End of the day, you have bought a brand new car with a warranty - if you don't trust the manufacturers authorised dealers, take it to the manufacturers dealer (Reading). If you don't trust them, drive it back to Stuttgart. Not to stereotype but most owners of a £120k brand new sports cars are probably not going to be jacking them up and looking for funny noises coming from the engine compartment, they will drive them or get them recovered back to Porsche and let them deal with it. With respect, it's the price you pay for having a new model/derivative, the first are always the guinie pig cases.
How are you finding the car outside of engine/Noise problems?
I appreciate your well intended thoughts, but my way of thinking is diametrically different to 99% of those whose posts I occasionally read on this platform. Money, to start with, has absolutely nothing to do in my mind with the quality of any product or (even more so) after-sales service related to it. Whether for £100 or £100k, the approach, mentality and aim towards competence and perfection has to exist equally in minds of those marketing and supporting the product. It is the principle that matters, the rest are variations on a theme of practical solutions.
I have been fortunate to be close to the automotive industry over the past 35 or so years and, at the same time, work on a daily basis with very bespoke products in a different area of life. Therefore, my standards are painfully high and I expect those whose bespoke goods I acquire to have similar views on how to support them as I would do for my clients. Sadly, "not in the shop" with most car manufacturers... And will not be for as long as one with money has to "beg for the privilege" to part with it in exchange for, yet another, superb heap of metal (and other raw materials).
Yes, you are correct. I could test the Tech Dept of PCGB, but already have a pretty good picture what would happen. So, I shall not. And, yes, I could drive the car to Stuttgart, where I happen to know a sufficient number of helpful people, but see no point in putting myself and my car to such an effort for any reason at all.
This will be resolved one way or the other, I have no doubts. Perhaps it was a mistake to even post the initial question and ask what I asked as I had no intention for the topic to develop into something totally unrelated and much more complex than a little rattle I would rather not have to live with (again, this happens with most topics on all internet forums, presumably unavoidable). Life is too short and reality to cruel as always. no matter which segment of it you look at. More and more money to be taken from gullible enthusiasts (and I happen to be one of them, of course), less and less given in return. The brief history of time related to the 991GT3 from it's (hugely premature) launch in March 2013 onwards) is a textbook example of what happens more and more. Time is (apparently) money and if time is running out and money has to be taken... again, not a subject of my initial question which is all I wondered if anyone could relate to.
And, to answer your question - I love the 991GT3 to bits and consider it vastly superior in so many ways to the 997GT3RS (Gen 2) which I choose, nevertheless...to keep. Just wish I had Porsche Driving Experience handling circuits (and would not mind the proximity of the Grand Prix circuit) at my disposal on a more frequent basis. If for no other reason, the irritating noise I wrote about would never be heard on such good tarmac!
ATB
I have been fortunate to be close to the automotive industry over the past 35 or so years and, at the same time, work on a daily basis with very bespoke products in a different area of life. Therefore, my standards are painfully high and I expect those whose bespoke goods I acquire to have similar views on how to support them as I would do for my clients. Sadly, "not in the shop" with most car manufacturers... And will not be for as long as one with money has to "beg for the privilege" to part with it in exchange for, yet another, superb heap of metal (and other raw materials).
Yes, you are correct. I could test the Tech Dept of PCGB, but already have a pretty good picture what would happen. So, I shall not. And, yes, I could drive the car to Stuttgart, where I happen to know a sufficient number of helpful people, but see no point in putting myself and my car to such an effort for any reason at all.
This will be resolved one way or the other, I have no doubts. Perhaps it was a mistake to even post the initial question and ask what I asked as I had no intention for the topic to develop into something totally unrelated and much more complex than a little rattle I would rather not have to live with (again, this happens with most topics on all internet forums, presumably unavoidable). Life is too short and reality to cruel as always. no matter which segment of it you look at. More and more money to be taken from gullible enthusiasts (and I happen to be one of them, of course), less and less given in return. The brief history of time related to the 991GT3 from it's (hugely premature) launch in March 2013 onwards) is a textbook example of what happens more and more. Time is (apparently) money and if time is running out and money has to be taken... again, not a subject of my initial question which is all I wondered if anyone could relate to.
And, to answer your question - I love the 991GT3 to bits and consider it vastly superior in so many ways to the 997GT3RS (Gen 2) which I choose, nevertheless...to keep. Just wish I had Porsche Driving Experience handling circuits (and would not mind the proximity of the Grand Prix circuit) at my disposal on a more frequent basis. If for no other reason, the irritating noise I wrote about would never be heard on such good tarmac!
ATB
quattrors4 said:
Money, to start with, has absolutely nothing to do in my mind with the quality of any product or (even more so) after-sales service related to it. Whether for £100 or £100k, the approach, mentality and aim towards competence and perfection has to exist equally in minds of those marketing and supporting the product. It is the principle that matters, the rest are variations on a theme of practical solutions.
So true just wish Porsche, Jaguar Dealers etc. were as good as the Suzuki dealer who looks after our little Swift 4x4sidicks said:
You appear you have written-off your dealer before even giving them a chance to resolve your issue...
This. And by your own admission, if your standards are "painfully high", you might not get the best outcome from anyone you ask (Porsche UK/Porsche GmbH/OPC/Pistonheads) if you make it painful for them! I can't see how you will get a resolution by reporting the issue but not letting them investigate?Something's rattling at the back. Get someone in there (assuming no cage) and drive about until it happens then get them to crawl around a bit and isolate it. It's really hard to detect the location of a rattle from a fixed point while driving. They might even be able to put their hand on a bit of trim or something to make it stop or at least identify a specific point that's creating the noise. Can't be that big of a deal, surely?
Edited by DT398 on Friday 22 August 12:45
please only answer the OP examiner's set question 
the price is irrelevant - yet its apparently a bespoke (really?) product and some guff about enthusiasts
..and as well as the manufacturer and their network he also looks down on internet fora generally and tends to disagree with 99% of people here
i'd suggest a massage but he wouldn't take kindly
the price is irrelevant - yet its apparently a bespoke (really?) product and some guff about enthusiasts
..and as well as the manufacturer and their network he also looks down on internet fora generally and tends to disagree with 99% of people here
i'd suggest a massage but he wouldn't take kindly
quattrors said:
Has anyone, by any chance, experienced a strange type of "clutter/klack/rattle" (not sure how to define) noise coming from the RH rear side of the car (engine bay, suspension?) after the engine exchange?
Firstly, it becomes very clearly audible (almost as if isolated from the rest of the car) only after everything gets to working temperatures (10-15 minutes of driving). Secondly, it can be heard only as and when there is a fairly pronounced ripple on the road and the read end of the car 'jumps" a little bit that moment. The noise is very articulate and "decisive" as if something was a bit loose somewhere in the back. No functional or mechanical consequence or malfunctioning of anything present, simply a damn nuisance. All quiet under other conditions, even manholes or usual road imperfections do not have an effect.
As soon as the car has cooled down even a little (20-30 minutes), it goes away and comes back in the described manner. Evidently, something happens after thermal expansion - combination of metal/plastic rattling subjectively to my ears.
Apart from the rear PU and the backbone/tailpipe end of the exhaust, very little else has been removed from the car for the engine swap, even the cats came new bolted on to the new engine. Yes, the gearbox had to be taken off, but that is a solid connection to the engine. The only other thing disturbed were the driveshafts and a few points of rear suspension (if I am not wrong). So, not much else to be loose or to flap around.
Oh, almost forgot - this was most certainly not to be heard before the engine replacement.
Tks in advance.
you will get some clutch " chatter", noise, under certain condition's, but this will disappear after 2k miles...Firstly, it becomes very clearly audible (almost as if isolated from the rest of the car) only after everything gets to working temperatures (10-15 minutes of driving). Secondly, it can be heard only as and when there is a fairly pronounced ripple on the road and the read end of the car 'jumps" a little bit that moment. The noise is very articulate and "decisive" as if something was a bit loose somewhere in the back. No functional or mechanical consequence or malfunctioning of anything present, simply a damn nuisance. All quiet under other conditions, even manholes or usual road imperfections do not have an effect.
As soon as the car has cooled down even a little (20-30 minutes), it goes away and comes back in the described manner. Evidently, something happens after thermal expansion - combination of metal/plastic rattling subjectively to my ears.
Apart from the rear PU and the backbone/tailpipe end of the exhaust, very little else has been removed from the car for the engine swap, even the cats came new bolted on to the new engine. Yes, the gearbox had to be taken off, but that is a solid connection to the engine. The only other thing disturbed were the driveshafts and a few points of rear suspension (if I am not wrong). So, not much else to be loose or to flap around.
Oh, almost forgot - this was most certainly not to be heard before the engine replacement.
Tks in advance.
quattrors4 said:
I appreciate your well intended thoughts, but my way of thinking is diametrically different to 99% of those whose posts I occasionally read on this platform. Money, to start with, has absolutely nothing to do in my mind with the quality of any product or (even more so) after-sales service related to it. Whether for £100 or £100k, the approach, mentality and aim towards competence and perfection has to exist equally in minds of those marketing and supporting the product. It is the principle that matters, the rest are variations on a theme of practical solutions.
I have been fortunate to be close to the automotive industry over the past 35 or so years and, at the same time, work on a daily basis with very bespoke products in a different area of life. Therefore, my standards are painfully high and I expect those whose bespoke goods I acquire to have similar views on how to support them as I would do for my clients. Sadly, "not in the shop" with most car manufacturers... And will not be for as long as one with money has to "beg for the privilege" to part with it in exchange for, yet another, superb heap of metal (and other raw materials).
Yes, you are correct. I could test the Tech Dept of PCGB, but already have a pretty good picture what would happen. So, I shall not. And, yes, I could drive the car to Stuttgart, where I happen to know a sufficient number of helpful people, but see no point in putting myself and my car to such an effort for any reason at all.
This will be resolved one way or the other, I have no doubts. Perhaps it was a mistake to even post the initial question and ask what I asked as I had no intention for the topic to develop into something totally unrelated and much more complex than a little rattle I would rather not have to live with (again, this happens with most topics on all internet forums, presumably unavoidable). Life is too short and reality to cruel as always. no matter which segment of it you look at. More and more money to be taken from gullible enthusiasts (and I happen to be one of them, of course), less and less given in return. The brief history of time related to the 991GT3 from it's (hugely premature) launch in March 2013 onwards) is a textbook example of what happens more and more. Time is (apparently) money and if time is running out and money has to be taken... again, not a subject of my initial question which is all I wondered if anyone could relate to.
And, to answer your question - I love the 991GT3 to bits and consider it vastly superior in so many ways to the 997GT3RS (Gen 2) which I choose, nevertheless...to keep. Just wish I had Porsche Driving Experience handling circuits (and would not mind the proximity of the Grand Prix circuit) at my disposal on a more frequent basis. If for no other reason, the irritating noise I wrote about would never be heard on such good tarmac!
ATB
I'm sure it'll be a fairly easy fault to diagnose if you give someone the opportunity to investigate it, but on the basis you don't trust your dealer, importer, or the manufacturer to look at it for you, how exactly do you expect to get it fixed..? I have been fortunate to be close to the automotive industry over the past 35 or so years and, at the same time, work on a daily basis with very bespoke products in a different area of life. Therefore, my standards are painfully high and I expect those whose bespoke goods I acquire to have similar views on how to support them as I would do for my clients. Sadly, "not in the shop" with most car manufacturers... And will not be for as long as one with money has to "beg for the privilege" to part with it in exchange for, yet another, superb heap of metal (and other raw materials).
Yes, you are correct. I could test the Tech Dept of PCGB, but already have a pretty good picture what would happen. So, I shall not. And, yes, I could drive the car to Stuttgart, where I happen to know a sufficient number of helpful people, but see no point in putting myself and my car to such an effort for any reason at all.
This will be resolved one way or the other, I have no doubts. Perhaps it was a mistake to even post the initial question and ask what I asked as I had no intention for the topic to develop into something totally unrelated and much more complex than a little rattle I would rather not have to live with (again, this happens with most topics on all internet forums, presumably unavoidable). Life is too short and reality to cruel as always. no matter which segment of it you look at. More and more money to be taken from gullible enthusiasts (and I happen to be one of them, of course), less and less given in return. The brief history of time related to the 991GT3 from it's (hugely premature) launch in March 2013 onwards) is a textbook example of what happens more and more. Time is (apparently) money and if time is running out and money has to be taken... again, not a subject of my initial question which is all I wondered if anyone could relate to.
And, to answer your question - I love the 991GT3 to bits and consider it vastly superior in so many ways to the 997GT3RS (Gen 2) which I choose, nevertheless...to keep. Just wish I had Porsche Driving Experience handling circuits (and would not mind the proximity of the Grand Prix circuit) at my disposal on a more frequent basis. If for no other reason, the irritating noise I wrote about would never be heard on such good tarmac!
ATB
sidicks said:
Voodoo or ESP ?
Maybe he should sell it Sid, and buy a Lexus...they are supposedly very quiet and trouble free...To be honest, if he's driving it as intended, I'm surprised he can hear any noises from the back end over the noise of the engine...? In mine, there are so many chatters and thumps going on, its all part of the appeal....
pork911 said:
please only answer the OP examiner's set question
the price is irrelevant - yet its apparently a bespoke (really?) product and some guff about enthusiasts
..and as well as the manufacturer and their network he also looks down on internet fora generally and tends to disagree with 99% of people here
i'd suggest a massage but he wouldn't take kindly
the price is irrelevant - yet its apparently a bespoke (really?) product and some guff about enthusiasts
..and as well as the manufacturer and their network he also looks down on internet fora generally and tends to disagree with 99% of people here
i'd suggest a massage but he wouldn't take kindly
Brian Sewell springs to mind .......
Just my two p worth.
On the cars I have completed the recall on two have had a noise after the second roadtest - traced to the rear lid hinge stop. Open the lid; look in the top corners and an adjustable stop is visible, put a dab of grease on the stop and retest- if the noise goes then wind the stop down 1/4 turn (I found the preload was too high causing the noises).
On the cars I have completed the recall on two have had a noise after the second roadtest - traced to the rear lid hinge stop. Open the lid; look in the top corners and an adjustable stop is visible, put a dab of grease on the stop and retest- if the noise goes then wind the stop down 1/4 turn (I found the preload was too high causing the noises).
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