964's In vogue
Discussion
Wozy68 said:
IMI A said:
Scooty100 said:
IMI A said:
I may have just bought one. C2 in guards red. Feckin gorgeous. Original panel car that was available for £40k six months ago at the hairpin co. Kicking myself for not buying it earlier but finally got my mits on it subject to Adrain Crawford being happy with it when he picks it up. Never dealt with Adrian but a very very easy guy to do business with. Liked him very much and haven't even met him (well I've seen his vids!).The yellow 993 turbo they have for sale at the mo is lovely too. £120k - I need to work harder!
So low mileage 964's selling for north of 40k now? when did this suddenly happen...There might not be a lot of manual C2 964s for sale at the moment, but they built enough of them. That would be the market really going mad. ...... and that's from someone who believed the air cooled and especially later 911s have been undervalued in the past.
There is around 10 or so manual C2's scattered in showrooms across the country all bar 2 are over 100k milers & 30-35k in price and yes pretty much all are Guards Red. Similar cars from private sellers are advertised for a tad under 30k. Sub 100k milers are pushing close to 40k so 50k or more for a mint sub 50k miler is a given.
As for how many are out there - don't forgot we had a recession at the end of the 80's & Porsche was getting close to bankruptcy - impact on sales, Porsche sold almost 3 times as many 996 than 964 (worldwide) with only 3692 964's finding their way to UK in all variants (C2, C4, Targa, Cab, Turbo, RS, Cup, Tiptronic). C2 & C4 accounted for 40% of Porsche 964 WW sales so one could safely assume around 50% of the UK's 3692 were C2/C4 Coupe's = 1846 and by the time you deduct the tiptronic & C4 variety you will end up with hundreds and not thousands of C2 coupe variety that were imported in the first place.
Then there is the historic bad rep, low used prices, insurance write-offs & expensive (Porsche) maintenance costs which meant a lot of cars being scrapped or not taken care of and you wonder how many C2 coupe's are actually left that are sub 100k miles with no rust sporting original panels & good trim ... my guess would be double digits and that's why they are so rarely seen on the market!
There is also a historical reference - the era (90's) also marked the end of mechanical control - after which cars started to adopt electronic driving aids, desensitizing the road. Sure I can go really fast in my 991 but frankly its impossible to enjoy it to the full on public roads - at 75mph, RPM sits at 1700, and to hear the exhaust you need to go past 6000 rpm, as for cornering - its a joke as it feels like glue. That's where cars such as 964 stand out, they provide a driving sensation that is really pretty unique to all cars before and after its era - the last of the mechanical cars. Ok so its not the prettiest 911, a classic 911s & 991-50th top my list for sheer beauty but its far prettier than what came before (IB) or after (993 & 996) - besides you could always go the singer route and tart it all up!
As for how many are out there - don't forgot we had a recession at the end of the 80's & Porsche was getting close to bankruptcy - impact on sales, Porsche sold almost 3 times as many 996 than 964 (worldwide) with only 3692 964's finding their way to UK in all variants (C2, C4, Targa, Cab, Turbo, RS, Cup, Tiptronic). C2 & C4 accounted for 40% of Porsche 964 WW sales so one could safely assume around 50% of the UK's 3692 were C2/C4 Coupe's = 1846 and by the time you deduct the tiptronic & C4 variety you will end up with hundreds and not thousands of C2 coupe variety that were imported in the first place.
Then there is the historic bad rep, low used prices, insurance write-offs & expensive (Porsche) maintenance costs which meant a lot of cars being scrapped or not taken care of and you wonder how many C2 coupe's are actually left that are sub 100k miles with no rust sporting original panels & good trim ... my guess would be double digits and that's why they are so rarely seen on the market!
There is also a historical reference - the era (90's) also marked the end of mechanical control - after which cars started to adopt electronic driving aids, desensitizing the road. Sure I can go really fast in my 991 but frankly its impossible to enjoy it to the full on public roads - at 75mph, RPM sits at 1700, and to hear the exhaust you need to go past 6000 rpm, as for cornering - its a joke as it feels like glue. That's where cars such as 964 stand out, they provide a driving sensation that is really pretty unique to all cars before and after its era - the last of the mechanical cars. Ok so its not the prettiest 911, a classic 911s & 991-50th top my list for sheer beauty but its far prettier than what came before (IB) or after (993 & 996) - besides you could always go the singer route and tart it all up!
Mondrian said:
There is around 10 or so manual C2's scattered in showrooms across the country all bar 2 are over 100k milers & 30-35k in price and yes pretty much all are Guards Red. Similar cars from private sellers are advertised for a tad under 30k. Sub 100k milers are pushing close to 40k so 50k or more for a mint sub 50k miler is a given.
As for how many are out there - don't forgot we had a recession at the end of the 80's & Porsche was getting close to bankruptcy - impact on sales, Porsche sold almost 3 times as many 996 than 964 (worldwide) with only 3692 964's finding their way to UK in all variants (C2, C4, Targa, Cab, Turbo, RS, Cup, Tiptronic). C2 & C4 accounted for 40% of Porsche 964 WW sales so one could safely assume around 50% of the UK's 3692 were C2/C4 Coupe's = 1846 and by the time you deduct the tiptronic & C4 variety you will end up with hundreds and not thousands of C2 coupe variety that were imported in the first place.
Then there is the historic bad rep, low used prices, insurance write-offs & expensive (Porsche) maintenance costs which meant a lot of cars being scrapped or not taken care of and you wonder how many C2 coupe's are actually left that are sub 100k miles with no rust sporting original panels & good trim ... my guess would be double digits and that's why they are so rarely seen on the market!
There is also a historical reference - the era (90's) also marked the end of mechanical control - after which cars started to adopt electronic driving aids, desensitizing the road. Sure I can go really fast in my 991 but frankly its impossible to enjoy it to the full on public roads - at 75mph, RPM sits at 1700, and to hear the exhaust you need to go past 6000 rpm, as for cornering - its a joke as it feels like glue. That's where cars such as 964 stand out, they provide a driving sensation that is really pretty unique to all cars before and after its era - the last of the mechanical cars. Ok so its not the prettiest 911, a classic 911s & 991-50th top my list for sheer beauty but its far prettier than what came before (IB) or after (993 & 996) - besides you could always go the singer route and tart it all up!
Yep the car I've hopefully bought touch wood is less than 30,000 miles. Literally looked forever to find it.As for how many are out there - don't forgot we had a recession at the end of the 80's & Porsche was getting close to bankruptcy - impact on sales, Porsche sold almost 3 times as many 996 than 964 (worldwide) with only 3692 964's finding their way to UK in all variants (C2, C4, Targa, Cab, Turbo, RS, Cup, Tiptronic). C2 & C4 accounted for 40% of Porsche 964 WW sales so one could safely assume around 50% of the UK's 3692 were C2/C4 Coupe's = 1846 and by the time you deduct the tiptronic & C4 variety you will end up with hundreds and not thousands of C2 coupe variety that were imported in the first place.
Then there is the historic bad rep, low used prices, insurance write-offs & expensive (Porsche) maintenance costs which meant a lot of cars being scrapped or not taken care of and you wonder how many C2 coupe's are actually left that are sub 100k miles with no rust sporting original panels & good trim ... my guess would be double digits and that's why they are so rarely seen on the market!
There is also a historical reference - the era (90's) also marked the end of mechanical control - after which cars started to adopt electronic driving aids, desensitizing the road. Sure I can go really fast in my 991 but frankly its impossible to enjoy it to the full on public roads - at 75mph, RPM sits at 1700, and to hear the exhaust you need to go past 6000 rpm, as for cornering - its a joke as it feels like glue. That's where cars such as 964 stand out, they provide a driving sensation that is really pretty unique to all cars before and after its era - the last of the mechanical cars. Ok so its not the prettiest 911, a classic 911s & 991-50th top my list for sheer beauty but its far prettier than what came before (IB) or after (993 & 996) - besides you could always go the singer route and tart it all up!
Mondrian said:
IMI A said:
Yep the car I've hopefully bought touch wood is less than 30,000 miles. Literally looked forever to find it.
Confused, I thought that one got away?Mondrian said:
I am looking for an IB but only to backdate to 73 911s.
Avantgarde have one in stock thats already been done. May actually be a cheaper routehttp://www.avantgardecars.co.uk/viewcar/PORSCHE%20...
I have not seen a breakdown of UK production numbers so not sure where those numbers came from?
Its strange that when talking to owners mileage is usually the last thing talked about. Quite why that is I dont know but maybe because clocking was simple and many issues relate to age and use rather than the mileage. There are not many standard cars out there probably because simple mods are so effective especially where the suspension is concerned.
Its strange that when talking to owners mileage is usually the last thing talked about. Quite why that is I dont know but maybe because clocking was simple and many issues relate to age and use rather than the mileage. There are not many standard cars out there probably because simple mods are so effective especially where the suspension is concerned.
Mondrian said:
There is around 10 or so manual C2's scattered in showrooms across the country all bar 2 are over 100k milers & 30-35k in price and yes pretty much all are Guards Red. Similar cars from private sellers are advertised for a tad under 30k. Sub 100k milers are pushing close to 40k so 50k or more for a mint sub 50k miler is a given.
As for how many are out there - don't forgot we had a recession at the end of the 80's & Porsche was getting close to bankruptcy - impact on sales, Porsche sold almost 3 times as many 996 than 964 (worldwide) with only 3692 964's finding their way to UK in all variants (C2, C4, Targa, Cab, Turbo, RS, Cup, Tiptronic). C2 & C4 accounted for 40% of Porsche 964 WW sales so one could safely assume around 50% of the UK's 3692 were C2/C4 Coupe's = 1846 and by the time you deduct the tiptronic & C4 variety you will end up with hundreds and not thousands of C2 coupe variety that were imported in the first place.
Then there is the historic bad rep, low used prices, insurance write-offs & expensive (Porsche) maintenance costs which meant a lot of cars being scrapped or not taken care of and you wonder how many C2 coupe's are actually left that are sub 100k miles with no rust sporting original panels & good trim ... my guess would be double digits and that's why they are so rarely seen on the market!
There is also a historical reference - the era (90's) also marked the end of mechanical control - after which cars started to adopt electronic driving aids, desensitizing the road. Sure I can go really fast in my 991 but frankly its impossible to enjoy it to the full on public roads - at 75mph, RPM sits at 1700, and to hear the exhaust you need to go past 6000 rpm, as for cornering - its a joke as it feels like glue. That's where cars such as 964 stand out, they provide a driving sensation that is really pretty unique to all cars before and after its era - the last of the mechanical cars. Ok so its not the prettiest 911, a classic 911s & 991-50th top my list for sheer beauty but its far prettier than what came before (IB) or after (993 & 996) - besides you could always go the singer route and tart it all up!
Prices and demand for the manual C4 coupe seem to be getting closer to C2 levels. Apparently the 959 influence is having a positive effect on the C4 market (and the fact that C2 coupes are, as you say, getting hard to find in good condition).As for how many are out there - don't forgot we had a recession at the end of the 80's & Porsche was getting close to bankruptcy - impact on sales, Porsche sold almost 3 times as many 996 than 964 (worldwide) with only 3692 964's finding their way to UK in all variants (C2, C4, Targa, Cab, Turbo, RS, Cup, Tiptronic). C2 & C4 accounted for 40% of Porsche 964 WW sales so one could safely assume around 50% of the UK's 3692 were C2/C4 Coupe's = 1846 and by the time you deduct the tiptronic & C4 variety you will end up with hundreds and not thousands of C2 coupe variety that were imported in the first place.
Then there is the historic bad rep, low used prices, insurance write-offs & expensive (Porsche) maintenance costs which meant a lot of cars being scrapped or not taken care of and you wonder how many C2 coupe's are actually left that are sub 100k miles with no rust sporting original panels & good trim ... my guess would be double digits and that's why they are so rarely seen on the market!
There is also a historical reference - the era (90's) also marked the end of mechanical control - after which cars started to adopt electronic driving aids, desensitizing the road. Sure I can go really fast in my 991 but frankly its impossible to enjoy it to the full on public roads - at 75mph, RPM sits at 1700, and to hear the exhaust you need to go past 6000 rpm, as for cornering - its a joke as it feels like glue. That's where cars such as 964 stand out, they provide a driving sensation that is really pretty unique to all cars before and after its era - the last of the mechanical cars. Ok so its not the prettiest 911, a classic 911s & 991-50th top my list for sheer beauty but its far prettier than what came before (IB) or after (993 & 996) - besides you could always go the singer route and tart it all up!
I haven't seen one that tickles my fancy yet, closest is the PS Automobile (German) ST backdated one so my aim is to replicate that but in 911s guise with all steel panels and rebuilt mechanicals, new interior, glass out bare metal respray & chassis prep - no idea how much it will cost yet as I am still trying to get my head around all the technical mod costs.
That one looks very authentic (tired) but nice colour.
That one looks very authentic (tired) but nice colour.
In June, I bought what seems to be the most 'non vogue' of the 964 models. A stock, 125,000 mile, C4 targa. It was just what I wanted. I wondered at the time why it hadn't been snapped up before I got my mitts on it. Peter Morgan said similar after he had inspected it. As did the guys at JAZ.
I think this thread goes some way to explaining what happened. I intend on keeping the car absolutely stock. Yes, I'll even keep the flags.
I think this thread goes some way to explaining what happened. I intend on keeping the car absolutely stock. Yes, I'll even keep the flags.
Big miles, and questionable colour (although I like it) and its a LHD (as Porsche intended), but looks well worth the money. Especially if you put 10k into it and fettle it.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1990-Porsche-911-964-3-6...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1990-Porsche-911-964-3-6...
IMI A said:
for a low miles minter thats been pampered all its life thats the money. I was surprised myself and mid 50s not early 50s. How many few owners, low miles, sent on a trailer to be serviced at Dick Lovett all its life C2 RHD original panel manual 964s are there? Companies like Adrian Crawford and Hairpin will probably pay you £50k for a similar car in the trade. I'm not a track junkie but enquired about the three LHD low miles RS german sports cars have. All of them were circa £220k so by comparison not bad if you can find a minter RHD 964 C2 for £50-£60k. The car I bought I missed six months ago at Hairpin as I thought £40k was too much for a C2. It was snapped up while I was still in thinking mode. No chance I was going o let it happen again as its the nicest C2 I've see for sale since 2007 and I've always wanted one but never been able to find an exceptional car.
Have you ever owned a 964 before? I asked myself would I have paid 48k for mine back in 91. At th time I bought it it had done less than 50k miles with zillions of bought from new extras. The answer for me at least was no.
When I bought my 993 I asked myself would I have paid 54k to own from new and with over 100k miles on the clock, the answer has always been yes.
Have you tried a 993?
Wozy68 said:
IMI A said:
for a low miles minter thats been pampered all its life thats the money. I was surprised myself and mid 50s not early 50s. How many few owners, low miles, sent on a trailer to be serviced at Dick Lovett all its life C2 RHD original panel manual 964s are there? Companies like Adrian Crawford and Hairpin will probably pay you £50k for a similar car in the trade. I'm not a track junkie but enquired about the three LHD low miles RS german sports cars have. All of them were circa £220k so by comparison not bad if you can find a minter RHD 964 C2 for £50-£60k. The car I bought I missed six months ago at Hairpin as I thought £40k was too much for a C2. It was snapped up while I was still in thinking mode. No chance I was going o let it happen again as its the nicest C2 I've see for sale since 2007 and I've always wanted one but never been able to find an exceptional car.
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
I expect my 964 C2 to be very familiar but a bit easier to drive quickly than my 3.2C. The 993 will also probably be very familiar but even easier to drive more quickly. The 993 was my favourite 911 20 years ago. It just looked so current and modern almost like a 959 to my eye at the front. I still love the 993 but there is something unfinished about the way they look now. I cannot put my finger on why they do not look as good, to me anyway, as they did 20 years ago. Perhaps I need better specs?!
Wozy68 said:
IMI A said:
for a low miles minter thats been pampered all its life thats the money. I was surprised myself and mid 50s not early 50s. How many few owners, low miles, sent on a trailer to be serviced at Dick Lovett all its life C2 RHD original panel manual 964s are there? Companies like Adrian Crawford and Hairpin will probably pay you £50k for a similar car in the trade. I'm not a track junkie but enquired about the three LHD low miles RS german sports cars have. All of them were circa £220k so by comparison not bad if you can find a minter RHD 964 C2 for £50-£60k. The car I bought I missed six months ago at Hairpin as I thought £40k was too much for a C2. It was snapped up while I was still in thinking mode. No chance I was going o let it happen again as its the nicest C2 I've see for sale since 2007 and I've always wanted one but never been able to find an exceptional car.
Have you ever owned a 964 before? I asked myself would I have paid 48k for mine back in 91. At th time I bought it it had done less than 50k miles with zillions of bought from new extras. The answer for me at least was no.
When I bought my 993 I asked myself would I have paid 54k to own from new and with over 100k miles on the clock, the answer has always been yes.
Have you tried a 993?
Considering buying a 993 to go with the Spyder.
Here's a rubbish pic of my 964, owned for nearly 8 years, bought in the dark ! (And first one seen)
Can't believe how they are climbing in value, briefly mine is c2, manual, bare metal respray, new wings etc, top end engine rebuild and h&r coilovers...so have spent plenty of £££ Other than an Rs steering wheel the rest is standard and it's staying that way. 117k mikes, just had the abs sorted. Oh it's had a decat too so sounds nice !
Having said no more mods, I wish it had a 6 speed gearbox and would be interested if anyone's put the 993 one in theirs ?
The 996 is mine too and I don't get why some people slate them, they are so capable.
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