Can anybody help please ?
Discussion
Some very interesting comments. Thank you.
I regret to say that quite many of you are missing the point here. It is not about the cost of the car or that I can not afford to buy the petrol. This is about that I have been mislead and lied to for six months by a main dealer while I specifically asked that I need the car to do approximately 16 miles a day on electric only mode. The Porsche east London each and every time was coming up with different excuse why the range is low for last six months but not even once said that this is kind of average to see 14 miles on the clock. I feel like I spent 100k on something what is very different to the described.
The whole issue is that the main dealer is able to say anything to take ones money and then just say live with it as we can not assist you any further.
Or this is norm now as we are in 21 st century ?!?!
I regret to say that quite many of you are missing the point here. It is not about the cost of the car or that I can not afford to buy the petrol. This is about that I have been mislead and lied to for six months by a main dealer while I specifically asked that I need the car to do approximately 16 miles a day on electric only mode. The Porsche east London each and every time was coming up with different excuse why the range is low for last six months but not even once said that this is kind of average to see 14 miles on the clock. I feel like I spent 100k on something what is very different to the described.
The whole issue is that the main dealer is able to say anything to take ones money and then just say live with it as we can not assist you any further.
Or this is norm now as we are in 21 st century ?!?!
I accept the argument that the dealer didn't say it's to be expected. They have either been ignorant or economical with the truth..
But I also think that it's fairly clear that that dealers historically have no real idea of what they are selling, and when they do they will spin you a story to get the sale and that if I was spending 100k I'd want more evidence that a sales guy making up dodgy excuses. If it was THAT important I'd want hard proof.
OP I understand why you're annoyed but in your shoes I'd be annoyed with myself as much as the dealer
But I also think that it's fairly clear that that dealers historically have no real idea of what they are selling, and when they do they will spin you a story to get the sale and that if I was spending 100k I'd want more evidence that a sales guy making up dodgy excuses. If it was THAT important I'd want hard proof.
OP I understand why you're annoyed but in your shoes I'd be annoyed with myself as much as the dealer
Edited by Jon1967x on Friday 12th September 22:40
Whether the OP can afford the car or petrol etc. is not the question here. No right minded person would plunge the best part of £100k into such a car unless it met their needs...it clearly doesn't.
OP - only way to determine whether you have indeed been misled or (without wanting to be slightly off), you have misunderstood the OPC is to contact a) OPC Reading or b) Porsche Inside Track. I'd drop both an e-mail and you'll get a call...
OP - only way to determine whether you have indeed been misled or (without wanting to be slightly off), you have misunderstood the OPC is to contact a) OPC Reading or b) Porsche Inside Track. I'd drop both an e-mail and you'll get a call...
Edited by andyc11 on Friday 12th September 22:37
tom656 said:
I can't be walking with the solicitor and voice recorder with me all the time. I thought I walked in to the main dealers showroom not a second hand court yard on the high street. Is there anyone still can be trusted?
Pretty much everyone knows claimed mpg is not the same as real world mpg. I assume you know that. Why would claimed range on a full charge be any different? Jon1967x said:
tom656 said:
I can't be walking with the solicitor and voice recorder with me all the time. I thought I walked in to the main dealers showroom not a second hand court yard on the high street. Is there anyone still can be trusted?
Pretty much everyone knows claimed mpg is not the same as real world mpg. I assume you know that. Why would claimed range on a full charge be any different? I'm with the OP, but proving the case will be difficult. If he can prove that all the things described and that he was told happened, the it's pretty straight forward that he can reject the car. However, as mentioned, he doesn't carry a dictaphone so this may be tricky.
My advice to the OP - keep escalating, and make yourself a pain in the ass. You're never going to be happy with the OPC, and will never go back, but with 100k disposable, a loud voice and access to social media (with a point to prove), PGB will eventually support.
Good luck.
richardalanlee said:
Jon1967x said:
tom656 said:
I can't be walking with the solicitor and voice recorder with me all the time. I thought I walked in to the main dealers showroom not a second hand court yard on the high street. Is there anyone still can be trusted?
Pretty much everyone knows claimed mpg is not the same as real world mpg. I assume you know that. Why would claimed range on a full charge be any different? I'm with the OP, but proving the case will be difficult. If he can prove that all the things described and that he was told happened, the it's pretty straight forward that he can reject the car. However, as mentioned, he doesn't carry a dictaphone so this may be tricky.
My advice to the OP - keep escalating, and make yourself a pain in the ass. You're never going to be happy with the OPC, and will never go back, but with 100k disposable, a loud voice and access to social media (with a point to prove), PGB will eventually support.
Good luck.
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/porsche/paname...
As others have said the figures and probably the whole design of the system is to get headline figures and low tax rates.
I'm with the OP in chasing them, and also as suggested, what outcome does he want? The car isn't going to do what he wants. When complaining have a view of what's reasonable to argue over - the cars performance while poor is not a great surprise, the dealer misleading is what's at fault.
strange thread but lets join in.
The original press release stated: http://press.porsche.com/news/release.php?id=776
'The electric driving range of the Panamera S E-Hybrid is estimated to be greater than 20 miles based upon current NEDC testing. Driving range may vary in real world operation, due to the effects of environmental conditions, terrain, air conditioning and heating use, driving style and other factors.'
key words: estimated, current NEDC testing, driving range may vary.
hope it goes to court as our legal 'friends' need even more money thrown their way, not.
The original press release stated: http://press.porsche.com/news/release.php?id=776
'The electric driving range of the Panamera S E-Hybrid is estimated to be greater than 20 miles based upon current NEDC testing. Driving range may vary in real world operation, due to the effects of environmental conditions, terrain, air conditioning and heating use, driving style and other factors.'
key words: estimated, current NEDC testing, driving range may vary.
hope it goes to court as our legal 'friends' need even more money thrown their way, not.
tom656 said:
Some very interesting comments. Thank you.
I regret to say that quite many of you are missing the point here. It is not about the cost of the car or that I can not afford to buy the petrol. This is about that I have been mislead and lied to for six months by a main dealer while I specifically asked that I need the car to do approximately 16 miles a day on electric only mode. The Porsche east London each and every time was coming up with different excuse why the range is low for last six months but not even once said that this is kind of average to see 14 miles on the clock. I feel like I spent 100k on something what is very different to the described.
The whole issue is that the main dealer is able to say anything to take ones money and then just say live with it as we can not assist you any further.
Or this is norm now as we are in 21 st century ?!?!
I think we get the point but just don't have much sympathy for someone who thinks he 'needs' a £100K Panamera for a 16 miles per day commute.I regret to say that quite many of you are missing the point here. It is not about the cost of the car or that I can not afford to buy the petrol. This is about that I have been mislead and lied to for six months by a main dealer while I specifically asked that I need the car to do approximately 16 miles a day on electric only mode. The Porsche east London each and every time was coming up with different excuse why the range is low for last six months but not even once said that this is kind of average to see 14 miles on the clock. I feel like I spent 100k on something what is very different to the described.
The whole issue is that the main dealer is able to say anything to take ones money and then just say live with it as we can not assist you any further.
Or this is norm now as we are in 21 st century ?!?!
Porsche Inside Track website (registration required)...
https://insidetrack.centres.porsche.co.uk/Default....
https://insidetrack.centres.porsche.co.uk/Default....
tom656 said:
Dear All,
I looked in to electrical vehicles at the beginning of the year and my eye caught on Panamera E Hydrid. I have read the description and was rather impressed with 22 miles range. I have rushed to Porsche dealer east London next day to verify what I have read. The sales man was very friendly and confirmed that the facts are difficult to believe but are absolutely true. I do on a average 16 miles a day so this car seemed perfect. Unfortunately the test drive could not be offered to me at the time as the demonstrator they had was ongoing some repair / software updates. I left the showroom very exited expecting for the salesman to call me as soon as demonstrator gets fixed. The phone did not ring so I have called myself for the update. Unfortunately I was told that it might take some time till I could test drive the car reason being that only one technician was qualified to work on the car. The salesman wanted the deal before the end of the month and we agreed that I sign initial agreement to purchase the car but if I am not satisfied following the test drive they will refund all the monies. I was happy with the deal.
Few weeks later I have received the call that finally the car is ready for me to test drive and I can have her for the afternoon returning next morning. When I have arrived it was a brand new E Hydrid waiting for me. The salesman briefed me on how the car works and handed the key. I have immediately noticed the range showing 13 miles. The salesman explained that they didn't have enough time to charge her properly. Ok I thought.
Obviously the driving was good and I have confirmed next morning that I am going ahead with the purchase.
Three months later I have received the call informing me that the car is ready to collect. The car was as I expected. The range showed 14 miles but once again I was told that she has not been charged properly. Ok I thought.
I have left the car on charge over night at home but the range did not go any higher than 14 miles. When I rang the Porsche I was told this is because I am using tree pin domestic socket to charge the vesicle and once the charging station is installed it will be as it suppose to be. Then I have asked our electrician to install commando socket at work with a view to improve the range. Still no luck. I did ring the Porsche again and they explanation they came up with now was that the battery is new and needs to ware in. The charging station got installed few weeks later but the range still remained at average 14 miles. I complained again to Porsche. The car got booked in to get looked at as the service department agreed with the range being too low. They have also said that the range depends on my driving and if they reset the computer it will show the full claimed 22 miles. The car got returned with no improvement on the range. The technician returning the car said they are looking in to this for me and will be in touch shortly. I did not hear from them for a week so called myself. The service manager advised that they are still looking in to this and they are due another E Hydrid with the same problem. Two weeks later I have received a call from the service with a message that their sales manager is going to call me. He rang me today and at the end of quite long conversation said that the car has no faults and he can not assist me any further!!!!!!
ANY IDEAS HOW TO ESCALATE THIS FURTHER ? ANY ADVICE AT ALL WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED
Hi. I had a Panamera E hybrid on loan for a few weeks. Range on fully charged electrical power alone varied from 10 to 25 miles, depending on how I drove it. When you demand big torque from the motor, you could see the battery level dropping rapidly, but if you drove it really carefully, I could achieve much improved range. It was a bit of a novelty to be honest, and being new technology for Porsche, I think still had some powertrain refinement and calibration fine tuning required. I think its practically impossible to guarantee a range on electrical power alone, driving style, terrain, wind and weather conditions will all have a significant effect on the power requirement. Also, not all dealers seem to have a thorough grasp of the technology in this car.
I think your car seems to be operating correctly, but the dealer does seem to have fallen short of explaining the technology to you, and rather than give you a quick diagnosis that the car is fine, have given you false hope that there is a problem that can be solved....
I looked in to electrical vehicles at the beginning of the year and my eye caught on Panamera E Hydrid. I have read the description and was rather impressed with 22 miles range. I have rushed to Porsche dealer east London next day to verify what I have read. The sales man was very friendly and confirmed that the facts are difficult to believe but are absolutely true. I do on a average 16 miles a day so this car seemed perfect. Unfortunately the test drive could not be offered to me at the time as the demonstrator they had was ongoing some repair / software updates. I left the showroom very exited expecting for the salesman to call me as soon as demonstrator gets fixed. The phone did not ring so I have called myself for the update. Unfortunately I was told that it might take some time till I could test drive the car reason being that only one technician was qualified to work on the car. The salesman wanted the deal before the end of the month and we agreed that I sign initial agreement to purchase the car but if I am not satisfied following the test drive they will refund all the monies. I was happy with the deal.
Few weeks later I have received the call that finally the car is ready for me to test drive and I can have her for the afternoon returning next morning. When I have arrived it was a brand new E Hydrid waiting for me. The salesman briefed me on how the car works and handed the key. I have immediately noticed the range showing 13 miles. The salesman explained that they didn't have enough time to charge her properly. Ok I thought.
Obviously the driving was good and I have confirmed next morning that I am going ahead with the purchase.
Three months later I have received the call informing me that the car is ready to collect. The car was as I expected. The range showed 14 miles but once again I was told that she has not been charged properly. Ok I thought.
I have left the car on charge over night at home but the range did not go any higher than 14 miles. When I rang the Porsche I was told this is because I am using tree pin domestic socket to charge the vesicle and once the charging station is installed it will be as it suppose to be. Then I have asked our electrician to install commando socket at work with a view to improve the range. Still no luck. I did ring the Porsche again and they explanation they came up with now was that the battery is new and needs to ware in. The charging station got installed few weeks later but the range still remained at average 14 miles. I complained again to Porsche. The car got booked in to get looked at as the service department agreed with the range being too low. They have also said that the range depends on my driving and if they reset the computer it will show the full claimed 22 miles. The car got returned with no improvement on the range. The technician returning the car said they are looking in to this for me and will be in touch shortly. I did not hear from them for a week so called myself. The service manager advised that they are still looking in to this and they are due another E Hydrid with the same problem. Two weeks later I have received a call from the service with a message that their sales manager is going to call me. He rang me today and at the end of quite long conversation said that the car has no faults and he can not assist me any further!!!!!!
ANY IDEAS HOW TO ESCALATE THIS FURTHER ? ANY ADVICE AT ALL WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED
Hi. I had a Panamera E hybrid on loan for a few weeks. Range on fully charged electrical power alone varied from 10 to 25 miles, depending on how I drove it. When you demand big torque from the motor, you could see the battery level dropping rapidly, but if you drove it really carefully, I could achieve much improved range. It was a bit of a novelty to be honest, and being new technology for Porsche, I think still had some powertrain refinement and calibration fine tuning required. I think its practically impossible to guarantee a range on electrical power alone, driving style, terrain, wind and weather conditions will all have a significant effect on the power requirement. Also, not all dealers seem to have a thorough grasp of the technology in this car.
I think your car seems to be operating correctly, but the dealer does seem to have fallen short of explaining the technology to you, and rather than give you a quick diagnosis that the car is fine, have given you false hope that there is a problem that can be solved....
The car when fully charged only shows a range of 14 miles so it's never going to do the predicted "over 20" that is stated by Porsche. I get that MPG or range is often over exaggerated my manufacturers but In this case its not down to how it's being driven if it only shows 14 miles from the outset, sounds like Porsche have misled the OP, but I guess you'll have a fight on your hands trying to reject it.
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff