Can anybody help please ?
Discussion
Dear All,
I looked in to electrical vehicles at the beginning of the year and my eye caught on Panamera E Hydrid. I have read the description and was rather impressed with 22 miles range. I have rushed to Porsche dealer east London next day to verify what I have read. The sales man was very friendly and confirmed that the facts are difficult to believe but are absolutely true. I do on a average 16 miles a day so this car seemed perfect. Unfortunately the test drive could not be offered to me at the time as the demonstrator they had was ongoing some repair / software updates. I left the showroom very exited expecting for the salesman to call me as soon as demonstrator gets fixed. The phone did not ring so I have called myself for the update. Unfortunately I was told that it might take some time till I could test drive the car reason being that only one technician was qualified to work on the car. The salesman wanted the deal before the end of the month and we agreed that I sign initial agreement to purchase the car but if I am not satisfied following the test drive they will refund all the monies. I was happy with the deal.
Few weeks later I have received the call that finally the car is ready for me to test drive and I can have her for the afternoon returning next morning. When I have arrived it was a brand new E Hydrid waiting for me. The salesman briefed me on how the car works and handed the key. I have immediately noticed the range showing 13 miles. The salesman explained that they didn't have enough time to charge her properly. Ok I thought.
Obviously the driving was good and I have confirmed next morning that I am going ahead with the purchase.
Three months later I have received the call informing me that the car is ready to collect. The car was as I expected. The range showed 14 miles but once again I was told that she has not been charged properly. Ok I thought.
I have left the car on charge over night at home but the range did not go any higher than 14 miles. When I rang the Porsche I was told this is because I am using tree pin domestic socket to charge the vesicle and once the charging station is installed it will be as it suppose to be. Then I have asked our electrician to install commando socket at work with a view to improve the range. Still no luck. I did ring the Porsche again and they explanation they came up with now was that the battery is new and needs to ware in. The charging station got installed few weeks later but the range still remained at average 14 miles. I complained again to Porsche. The car got booked in to get looked at as the service department agreed with the range being too low. They have also said that the range depends on my driving and if they reset the computer it will show the full claimed 22 miles. The car got returned with no improvement on the range. The technician returning the car said they are looking in to this for me and will be in touch shortly. I did not hear from them for a week so called myself. The service manager advised that they are still looking in to this and they are due another E Hydrid with the same problem. Two weeks later I have received a call from the service with a message that their sales manager is going to call me. He rang me today and at the end of quite long conversation said that the car has no faults and he can not assist me any further!!!!!!
ANY IDEAS HOW TO ESCALATE THIS FURTHER ? ANY ADVICE AT ALL WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED
I looked in to electrical vehicles at the beginning of the year and my eye caught on Panamera E Hydrid. I have read the description and was rather impressed with 22 miles range. I have rushed to Porsche dealer east London next day to verify what I have read. The sales man was very friendly and confirmed that the facts are difficult to believe but are absolutely true. I do on a average 16 miles a day so this car seemed perfect. Unfortunately the test drive could not be offered to me at the time as the demonstrator they had was ongoing some repair / software updates. I left the showroom very exited expecting for the salesman to call me as soon as demonstrator gets fixed. The phone did not ring so I have called myself for the update. Unfortunately I was told that it might take some time till I could test drive the car reason being that only one technician was qualified to work on the car. The salesman wanted the deal before the end of the month and we agreed that I sign initial agreement to purchase the car but if I am not satisfied following the test drive they will refund all the monies. I was happy with the deal.
Few weeks later I have received the call that finally the car is ready for me to test drive and I can have her for the afternoon returning next morning. When I have arrived it was a brand new E Hydrid waiting for me. The salesman briefed me on how the car works and handed the key. I have immediately noticed the range showing 13 miles. The salesman explained that they didn't have enough time to charge her properly. Ok I thought.
Obviously the driving was good and I have confirmed next morning that I am going ahead with the purchase.
Three months later I have received the call informing me that the car is ready to collect. The car was as I expected. The range showed 14 miles but once again I was told that she has not been charged properly. Ok I thought.
I have left the car on charge over night at home but the range did not go any higher than 14 miles. When I rang the Porsche I was told this is because I am using tree pin domestic socket to charge the vesicle and once the charging station is installed it will be as it suppose to be. Then I have asked our electrician to install commando socket at work with a view to improve the range. Still no luck. I did ring the Porsche again and they explanation they came up with now was that the battery is new and needs to ware in. The charging station got installed few weeks later but the range still remained at average 14 miles. I complained again to Porsche. The car got booked in to get looked at as the service department agreed with the range being too low. They have also said that the range depends on my driving and if they reset the computer it will show the full claimed 22 miles. The car got returned with no improvement on the range. The technician returning the car said they are looking in to this for me and will be in touch shortly. I did not hear from them for a week so called myself. The service manager advised that they are still looking in to this and they are due another E Hydrid with the same problem. Two weeks later I have received a call from the service with a message that their sales manager is going to call me. He rang me today and at the end of quite long conversation said that the car has no faults and he can not assist me any further!!!!!!
ANY IDEAS HOW TO ESCALATE THIS FURTHER ? ANY ADVICE AT ALL WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED
Stupid question, but have you actually driven it to see how far it really goes on batteries alone?
Many of the reviews of this model suggest that the range is 11 to 22 miles depending on the style of driving.
If you have a document from Porsche saying it will do 22 miles, I'd ask them to demonstrate it to you.
Many of the reviews of this model suggest that the range is 11 to 22 miles depending on the style of driving.
If you have a document from Porsche saying it will do 22 miles, I'd ask them to demonstrate it to you.
Tom, I am no expert but it sounds like a sale of goods act issue. If you have records (e-mails, letters, etc.) that demonstrate that you needed a car with a 16+ (or 22) mile range, then the car does not fulfil the criteria that it was sold to you for if they said that this would be achievable. Personally I would reject it on that basis, with the aid of a good lawyer.
No doubt Porsche will have documentation that states range is dependent on driving style, and it is, but it will come down to how it was sold to you personally and what evidence of that you have.
Good luck.
No doubt Porsche will have documentation that states range is dependent on driving style, and it is, but it will come down to how it was sold to you personally and what evidence of that you have.
Good luck.
Have you driven it until it runs out to see how far it'll actually go and whether this matches up with the display or not?
Assuming that the range display is accurate the car doesn't do what you wanted it to and if it can't be made to you should reject it and pursue a full refund - it could be a big ballache though, make sure you have written evidence of the stated range and of how this was key info that made you decide to buy the car.
Assuming that the range display is accurate the car doesn't do what you wanted it to and if it can't be made to you should reject it and pursue a full refund - it could be a big ballache though, make sure you have written evidence of the stated range and of how this was key info that made you decide to buy the car.
On the one hand I feel for you and the service they've given you has not been great.
But on the other, it's well known cars don't live up to their fuel economy figures because of the way they are calculated. If I brimmed my car with fuel it wouldn't give the theoretical range based on the combined cycle but the range based on recent driving. I suspect if you drove constantly in the most efficient way you could the range would creep up. Petrol cars also tend to have a little more in the rank than displayed. As others have said, have you driven until it stops?
But on the other, it's well known cars don't live up to their fuel economy figures because of the way they are calculated. If I brimmed my car with fuel it wouldn't give the theoretical range based on the combined cycle but the range based on recent driving. I suspect if you drove constantly in the most efficient way you could the range would creep up. Petrol cars also tend to have a little more in the rank than displayed. As others have said, have you driven until it stops?
Thank you for all your thoughts and the replies. I understand that their brochure would state the maximum range. I would expect as any other car once it is fully charges the display would show maximum range of 22 miles or close, lets say 21 or 20 and then depending on my driving I might be only achieving 12 miles. This is understandable. But now I have never seen more than 16 miles on the range display and on top of it the Porsche been finding all different reasons why it is what it is for past 6 months not even once mentioning that 14 miles is about right till yesterday. On to of that they agreed that the range is too low and even took a car in for a day to check it out. I was told the computer will be re set. The car has been returned to me with technician comments that they couldn't sort this out but still investigating and will rectify. Again not even a hint that this is normal range
I feel like I have been treated same as would be treated at a second hand car dealers on the court yard. I was told everything what I wanted to hear till they had my monies and now they can not assist me any further.
I feel like I have been treated same as would be treated at a second hand car dealers on the court yard. I was told everything what I wanted to hear till they had my monies and now they can not assist me any further.
Lets look at your charging first of all.
From a 10A 240V socket, the charging time is approximately 3.8 hrs.
From a 16A outlet it would be approximately 2.3hrs.
Everything else that you were told about using a charging station etc is unfortunately just incorrect. This is related to charging time based on current supply and charger specification. It does not affect the ability of the charger to fully charge the battery, it just takes more time. And as for the battery needing to "wear in", that's hilarious.
Once you have left the car on charge overnight, you could pretty well be sure that the batteries should be fully charged.
Or you could even set the charge timer to fully charge the car for when you want to leave the next day and it will do the rest.
Ignoring the calculated range estimation, does the battery level indicator show the battery as being full after a charge?
If not, maybe you have a problem. Does the car demonstrate that it is correctly charging?
When you plug the plug into the vehicle the battery and plug indicator LEDs above the socket should both be green, with the battery flashing when charging and static when full. Anything else indicates a problem.
The battery will also be automatically charged whilst driving, or maximised by putting the car into E-charge mode. However, the battery will never be fully charged using this method and can only be fully charged by using the plug-in charger.
Therefore, if your plug in charging is not actually charging for some reason, this might be what you are seeing with an indication of 14 miles not 22.
Assuming this is ok, as suggested by others, did you actually put the vehicle into E-Power Mode and try a "distance" run?
Can you actually do your full journey without using the combustion engine? (Even if you stay within the electric driving boundaries, it may come on from time to time in E-mode as part of the fuel tank venting system to remove accumulated fuel vapor.)
You will only get extended electric drive distance in E-Power mode, and in order to achieve this it is dependent on a number of factors.
For example - how you drive within the E-power mode - acceleration/braking style, also A/C settings and other power consumer use etc - The AC has an electrical compressor rather than one run from the engine so that it can still cool when the engine is off in E-mode, so if you're asking the A/C compressor to work hard this will also affect the battery life, and also battery temperature itself will have some effect in extreme situations at least. This is why the figure is calculated and cannot be a "fixed" figure based on a full battery charge, just like the fuel consumption and varying tank range figures that you would normally see with a combustion engine. So have a go with all electrical consumers and systems shut down such as A/C, lights, PCM etc just to see if things change.
It's of course also tricky to do a full to empty run unless you are in a controlled environment - you have to consider that in real life situations you're unlikely to be able to use that available charge in an ideal way for driving.
However, I just had another thought. 22km = 13.75 miles, which could be displayed as 14 miles on the indicator. Maybe an interesting coincidence or I wonder if there is a software bug which is making a mess up with the value conversions along the way somehow. Just a thought... Maybe make sure that the Porsche Centre has carried out all workshop campaigns identified for the car or maybe a new one will be along soon!
Let us know how you get on...
Edit: I also understand that your problem is now about the Porsche Centre as much as whether the car is doing what it should or not!
And I started my post before you mentioned seeing 16 miles so ignore my miles/km conversion theory.
From a 10A 240V socket, the charging time is approximately 3.8 hrs.
From a 16A outlet it would be approximately 2.3hrs.
Everything else that you were told about using a charging station etc is unfortunately just incorrect. This is related to charging time based on current supply and charger specification. It does not affect the ability of the charger to fully charge the battery, it just takes more time. And as for the battery needing to "wear in", that's hilarious.
Once you have left the car on charge overnight, you could pretty well be sure that the batteries should be fully charged.
Or you could even set the charge timer to fully charge the car for when you want to leave the next day and it will do the rest.
Ignoring the calculated range estimation, does the battery level indicator show the battery as being full after a charge?
If not, maybe you have a problem. Does the car demonstrate that it is correctly charging?
When you plug the plug into the vehicle the battery and plug indicator LEDs above the socket should both be green, with the battery flashing when charging and static when full. Anything else indicates a problem.
The battery will also be automatically charged whilst driving, or maximised by putting the car into E-charge mode. However, the battery will never be fully charged using this method and can only be fully charged by using the plug-in charger.
Therefore, if your plug in charging is not actually charging for some reason, this might be what you are seeing with an indication of 14 miles not 22.
Assuming this is ok, as suggested by others, did you actually put the vehicle into E-Power Mode and try a "distance" run?
Can you actually do your full journey without using the combustion engine? (Even if you stay within the electric driving boundaries, it may come on from time to time in E-mode as part of the fuel tank venting system to remove accumulated fuel vapor.)
You will only get extended electric drive distance in E-Power mode, and in order to achieve this it is dependent on a number of factors.
For example - how you drive within the E-power mode - acceleration/braking style, also A/C settings and other power consumer use etc - The AC has an electrical compressor rather than one run from the engine so that it can still cool when the engine is off in E-mode, so if you're asking the A/C compressor to work hard this will also affect the battery life, and also battery temperature itself will have some effect in extreme situations at least. This is why the figure is calculated and cannot be a "fixed" figure based on a full battery charge, just like the fuel consumption and varying tank range figures that you would normally see with a combustion engine. So have a go with all electrical consumers and systems shut down such as A/C, lights, PCM etc just to see if things change.
It's of course also tricky to do a full to empty run unless you are in a controlled environment - you have to consider that in real life situations you're unlikely to be able to use that available charge in an ideal way for driving.
However, I just had another thought. 22km = 13.75 miles, which could be displayed as 14 miles on the indicator. Maybe an interesting coincidence or I wonder if there is a software bug which is making a mess up with the value conversions along the way somehow. Just a thought... Maybe make sure that the Porsche Centre has carried out all workshop campaigns identified for the car or maybe a new one will be along soon!
Let us know how you get on...
Edit: I also understand that your problem is now about the Porsche Centre as much as whether the car is doing what it should or not!
And I started my post before you mentioned seeing 16 miles so ignore my miles/km conversion theory.
Edited by Pat Cash on Friday 12th September 08:16
Edited by Pat Cash on Friday 12th September 08:22
Thank you, You are making a valid point. The indicator shows on average 14 miles range but in real driving the car does approximately 10 miles. This is completely understandable and I am happy with it.
The fact I am most annoyed about that the Porsche did not said even once during the last 6 months that what I am achieving is maybe right. They have been coming up with all different excuses why the range is 14 miles and all along were assuring me that it will get sorted. I did ask on number of accession before the purchase if the claimed range is correct and that I need 16 miles a day to justify spending the monies on E Hydrid. Once again the assurance were loud and clear.
Any ideas how can I escalate this further ?
The fact I am most annoyed about that the Porsche did not said even once during the last 6 months that what I am achieving is maybe right. They have been coming up with all different excuses why the range is 14 miles and all along were assuring me that it will get sorted. I did ask on number of accession before the purchase if the claimed range is correct and that I need 16 miles a day to justify spending the monies on E Hydrid. Once again the assurance were loud and clear.
Any ideas how can I escalate this further ?
My Porsche is conventionally powered, but I also have a plug in hybrid Mitsubishi.
The Mitsubishi is quoted of having a range on electricity of over 30 miles. In the couple of months I have owned it I have seen indicated ranges after a full charge varying between 22 miles and 31 miles. I normally see around 26 miles after a charge.
The variance is due to the electricity usage in the previous miles which the compuiter takes as an indication of how the car will be driven, it is also affected by how many electrical items are active.
If I turn on air con the indicated range immediately drops by around a third and if I turn it off the range jumps back up. If you are running air con, PCM, heated seats etc then this will have a massive impact on battery range.
Regardless of what the initial indicated range is, the charge in the battery is the same and the only way to achieve the range quoted in the brochure is to drive carefully, make maximum use of regen braking and not use any electrical items.
Sorry to hear about your disappointment with your car, I was hoping to maybe get one of those as a replacement for the mitsubishi.
The Mitsubishi is quoted of having a range on electricity of over 30 miles. In the couple of months I have owned it I have seen indicated ranges after a full charge varying between 22 miles and 31 miles. I normally see around 26 miles after a charge.
The variance is due to the electricity usage in the previous miles which the compuiter takes as an indication of how the car will be driven, it is also affected by how many electrical items are active.
If I turn on air con the indicated range immediately drops by around a third and if I turn it off the range jumps back up. If you are running air con, PCM, heated seats etc then this will have a massive impact on battery range.
Regardless of what the initial indicated range is, the charge in the battery is the same and the only way to achieve the range quoted in the brochure is to drive carefully, make maximum use of regen braking and not use any electrical items.
Sorry to hear about your disappointment with your car, I was hoping to maybe get one of those as a replacement for the mitsubishi.
tom656 said:
Thank you, You are making a valid point. The indicator shows on average 14 miles range but in real driving the car does approximately 10 miles. This is completely understandable and I am happy with it.
The fact I am most annoyed about that the Porsche did not said even once during the last 6 months that what I am achieving is maybe right. They have been coming up with all different excuses why the range is 14 miles and all along were assuring me that it will get sorted. I did ask on number of accession before the purchase if the claimed range is correct and that I need 16 miles a day to justify spending the monies on E Hydrid. Once again the assurance were loud and clear.
Any ideas how can I escalate this further ?
I'd actually be annoyed if the range said 14 but only gave 10 - you really can't plan on that. As I said before, if I filled my car with fuel I wouldn't expect it to tell me the range was "combined official consumption * tank size" but average "recent average consumption by tank size" which is invariably lower. The fact I am most annoyed about that the Porsche did not said even once during the last 6 months that what I am achieving is maybe right. They have been coming up with all different excuses why the range is 14 miles and all along were assuring me that it will get sorted. I did ask on number of accession before the purchase if the claimed range is correct and that I need 16 miles a day to justify spending the monies on E Hydrid. Once again the assurance were loud and clear.
Any ideas how can I escalate this further ?
Finally - if you want to take it further you need to decide what you want. An apology? Reject the car? Something else? They can't magic more range for you in reality.
tom656 said:
Thank you, You are making a valid point. The indicator shows on average 14 miles range but in real driving the car does approximately 10 miles. This is completely understandable and I am happy with it.
The fact I am most annoyed about that the Porsche did not said even once during the last 6 months that what I am achieving is maybe right. They have been coming up with all different excuses why the range is 14 miles and all along were assuring me that it will get sorted. I did ask on number of accession before the purchase if the claimed range is correct and that I need 16 miles a day to justify spending the monies on E Hydrid. Once again the assurance were loud and clear.
Any ideas how can I escalate this further ?
Yeah, its somewhat dangerous selling the car based on electric power ranges alone. A Hybrid is about efficiently using mixed power sources where they are each at their most efficient, rather than one OR the other. In reality, the fuel consumption and emission reductions of a plug-in full hybrid, (which incidentally over a long term test I have found to be very achievable, unusually!) should be its selling point, rather than its ability to run as a full EV. Still 10 miles e-power doesn't sound great (assuming its charging correctly and you actually have a full charge) - what environment are you driving in?The fact I am most annoyed about that the Porsche did not said even once during the last 6 months that what I am achieving is maybe right. They have been coming up with all different excuses why the range is 14 miles and all along were assuring me that it will get sorted. I did ask on number of accession before the purchase if the claimed range is correct and that I need 16 miles a day to justify spending the monies on E Hydrid. Once again the assurance were loud and clear.
Any ideas how can I escalate this further ?
As far as escalation...Porsche GB? Or your PC's Dealer Principal at least?
the cars a bit old to reject imo
test the car on day 1 see what range it does take it back and say not fit for purpose.
but then as you had the loan demo why did you not do that in the demo ?
My Cayman is stated to do 30 odd miles I get 23, that's life, NO car does what is stated, you have no come back imo esp after 6 months ! how ever anoying
buying these cars is more a TAX dodge (low co2) hence why they do it, not a mpg exercise.
so using fuel for a couple of miles is a non issue no ?
at 56 mph on the motor way with every thing off it prob does do 22.
this is an issue if I were in sales after targets etc they love a signed order :-)
"The salesman wanted the deal before the end of the month and we agreed that I sign initial agreement to purchase the car but if I am not satisfied following the test drive they will refund all the monies. I was happy with the deal.
Few weeks later I have received the call that finally the car is ready for me to test drive and I can have her for the afternoon returning next morning."
so he gave you a get out if you were not happy with the test drive but YOU were happy.
test the car on day 1 see what range it does take it back and say not fit for purpose.
but then as you had the loan demo why did you not do that in the demo ?
My Cayman is stated to do 30 odd miles I get 23, that's life, NO car does what is stated, you have no come back imo esp after 6 months ! how ever anoying
buying these cars is more a TAX dodge (low co2) hence why they do it, not a mpg exercise.
so using fuel for a couple of miles is a non issue no ?
at 56 mph on the motor way with every thing off it prob does do 22.
this is an issue if I were in sales after targets etc they love a signed order :-)
"The salesman wanted the deal before the end of the month and we agreed that I sign initial agreement to purchase the car but if I am not satisfied following the test drive they will refund all the monies. I was happy with the deal.
Few weeks later I have received the call that finally the car is ready for me to test drive and I can have her for the afternoon returning next morning."
so he gave you a get out if you were not happy with the test drive but YOU were happy.
Edited by mrdemon on Friday 12th September 09:02
If they can't get your car to do what you want AND what they said you are entitled to return it for a full refund or replacement. As long as you are within 6mths and can verify the 22mile range stated to you then the dealership really dont have a leg to stand on. This is a summary, but it is good:
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/...
If they can't 'rectify' your car I would puruse a replacement. If that still fails to live up to expectations I would pursue a refund. As below, magic aint going to work so the choices in reality are rather stark.
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/...
If they can't 'rectify' your car I would puruse a replacement. If that still fails to live up to expectations I would pursue a refund. As below, magic aint going to work so the choices in reality are rather stark.
Jon1967x said:
Finally - if you want to take it further you need to decide what you want. An apology? Reject the car? Something else? They can't magic more range for you in reality.
HappyBoxster said:
If they can't get your car to do what you want AND what they said you are entitled to return it for a full refund or replacement. As long as you are within 6mths and can verify the 22mile range stated to you then the dealership really dont have a leg to stand on. This is a summary, but it is good:
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/...
If they can't 'rectify' your car I would puruse a replacement. If that still fails to live up to expectations I would pursue a refund. As below, magic aint going to work so the choices in reality are rather stark.
that would mean every one who buys a new car can return it after 6 months as no one gets the mpg stated, I bet it's in the small print you will not get 22mpghttp://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/...
If they can't 'rectify' your car I would puruse a replacement. If that still fails to live up to expectations I would pursue a refund. As below, magic aint going to work so the choices in reality are rather stark.
Jon1967x said:
Finally - if you want to take it further you need to decide what you want. An apology? Reject the car? Something else? They can't magic more range for you in reality.
mrdemon said:
that would mean every one who buys a new car can return it after 6 months as no one gets the mpg stated, I bet it's in the small print you will not get 22mpg
I concur that the T&C's of the sale have to support the OPs original statement that he was sold one thing and received another. The OP believes that to be the case therefore, under the Sales of Goods Act 1979 there is a line of recourse open to them. This seems to address what the OP was asking. Now, if the OP is simply wrong.... that is a different matter. It isn't however something that I am in a position to judge.HappyBoxster said:
mrdemon said:
that would mean every one who buys a new car can return it after 6 months as no one gets the mpg stated, I bet it's in the small print you will not get 22mpg
I concur that the T&C's of the sale have to support the OPs original statement that he was sold one thing and received another. The OP believes that to be the case therefore, under the Sales of Goods Act 1979 there is a line of recourse open to them. This seems to address what the OP was asking. Now, if the OP is simply wrong.... that is a different matter. It isn't however something that I am in a position to judge.Not sure if this thread is serious.. if it is then Shirley it wins the Ph 1st world problems.. "I commute 16 miles a day and had the fat end of £100K burning a hole in my pocket, so I bought an electric Porsche and now it won't do the claimed range"
Is it just me thats thinking 'put some 'kin petrol in it then!!!'
But just so that it helps... the range is defined as being in NEDC.
NEDC is carried out as follows....
"The cycle must be performed on a cold vehicle at 20–30 °C (typically run at 25 °C). The cycles may be performed on a flat road, in the absence of wind. However, to improve repeatability, they are generally performed on a roller test bench. This type of bench is equipped with an electrical machine to emulate resistance due to aerodynamic drag and vehicle mass (inertia).
For each vehicle configuration, a look-up table is applied: each speed corresponds to a certain value of resistance (reverse torque applied to the drive wheels). This arrangement enables the use of a single physical vehicle to test all vehicle body styles (Sedan, hatchback, MPV etc.) by simply changing the look-up table. A fan is coupled to the roller bench to provide the vehicle air intakes with an airflow matching the current speed. Many more tests can be performed during vehicle development with this arrangement than with conventional road tests.
The test is conducted with all ancillary loads turned off (Air conditioning compressor and fan, lights, heated rear window, etc.)"
So... nothing like real world driving conditions at all...
as you were..
Is it just me thats thinking 'put some 'kin petrol in it then!!!'
But just so that it helps... the range is defined as being in NEDC.
NEDC is carried out as follows....
"The cycle must be performed on a cold vehicle at 20–30 °C (typically run at 25 °C). The cycles may be performed on a flat road, in the absence of wind. However, to improve repeatability, they are generally performed on a roller test bench. This type of bench is equipped with an electrical machine to emulate resistance due to aerodynamic drag and vehicle mass (inertia).
For each vehicle configuration, a look-up table is applied: each speed corresponds to a certain value of resistance (reverse torque applied to the drive wheels). This arrangement enables the use of a single physical vehicle to test all vehicle body styles (Sedan, hatchback, MPV etc.) by simply changing the look-up table. A fan is coupled to the roller bench to provide the vehicle air intakes with an airflow matching the current speed. Many more tests can be performed during vehicle development with this arrangement than with conventional road tests.
The test is conducted with all ancillary loads turned off (Air conditioning compressor and fan, lights, heated rear window, etc.)"
So... nothing like real world driving conditions at all...
as you were..
Nurburgsingh said:
Not sure if this thread is serious.. if it is then Shirley it wins the Ph 1st world problems.. "I commute 16 miles a day and had the fat end of £100K burning a hole in my pocket, so I bought an electric Porsche and now it won't do the claimed range"
Is it just me thats thinking 'put some 'kin petrol in it then!!!'
But just so that it helps... the range is defined as being in NEDC.
NEDC is carried out as follows....
"The cycle must be performed on a cold vehicle at 20–30 °C (typically run at 25 °C). The cycles may be performed on a flat road, in the absence of wind. However, to improve repeatability, they are generally performed on a roller test bench. This type of bench is equipped with an electrical machine to emulate resistance due to aerodynamic drag and vehicle mass (inertia).
For each vehicle configuration, a look-up table is applied: each speed corresponds to a certain value of resistance (reverse torque applied to the drive wheels). This arrangement enables the use of a single physical vehicle to test all vehicle body styles (Sedan, hatchback, MPV etc.) by simply changing the look-up table. A fan is coupled to the roller bench to provide the vehicle air intakes with an airflow matching the current speed. Many more tests can be performed during vehicle development with this arrangement than with conventional road tests.
The test is conducted with all ancillary loads turned off (Air conditioning compressor and fan, lights, heated rear window, etc.)"
So... nothing like real world driving conditions at all...
as you were..
You forgot -Is it just me thats thinking 'put some 'kin petrol in it then!!!'
But just so that it helps... the range is defined as being in NEDC.
NEDC is carried out as follows....
"The cycle must be performed on a cold vehicle at 20–30 °C (typically run at 25 °C). The cycles may be performed on a flat road, in the absence of wind. However, to improve repeatability, they are generally performed on a roller test bench. This type of bench is equipped with an electrical machine to emulate resistance due to aerodynamic drag and vehicle mass (inertia).
For each vehicle configuration, a look-up table is applied: each speed corresponds to a certain value of resistance (reverse torque applied to the drive wheels). This arrangement enables the use of a single physical vehicle to test all vehicle body styles (Sedan, hatchback, MPV etc.) by simply changing the look-up table. A fan is coupled to the roller bench to provide the vehicle air intakes with an airflow matching the current speed. Many more tests can be performed during vehicle development with this arrangement than with conventional road tests.
The test is conducted with all ancillary loads turned off (Air conditioning compressor and fan, lights, heated rear window, etc.)"
So... nothing like real world driving conditions at all...
as you were..
'....and the operator of said vehicle must be freshly evacuated, have no more than 1mm in length of hair and weigh no more than a small anorexic Pygmy child...'
it is a daft ask from the OP, as it is clearly just a tax dodge with CO2 emissions figure of 71 g/km.
no is going to care it does a few miles less on a electric 100k car and as it's a hybrid the combustion engine is fired automatically when necessary :-)
Enjoy your Tax saving and move on with life is my advice.
no is going to care it does a few miles less on a electric 100k car and as it's a hybrid the combustion engine is fired automatically when necessary :-)
Enjoy your Tax saving and move on with life is my advice.
Zyp said:
You forgot -
'....and the operator of said vehicle must be freshly evacuated, have no more than 1mm in length of hair and weigh no more than a small anorexic Pygmy child...'
I thought the driver was a brick on the accelerator and a lump of wood behind it to stop it being pressed more than 10%'....and the operator of said vehicle must be freshly evacuated, have no more than 1mm in length of hair and weigh no more than a small anorexic Pygmy child...'
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