Cheap tyres - more fun?
Discussion
'Better' tyres dont necessarily perform (particularly stop) better in the wet.
In many cases what I would describe as budget tyres, and others would foolishly/ignorantly/arogantly dismiss as 'ditchfinders' have proved to be the equal or the better of superior brands in wet waether tests.
In many cases what I would describe as budget tyres, and others would foolishly/ignorantly/arogantly dismiss as 'ditchfinders' have proved to be the equal or the better of superior brands in wet waether tests.
GC8 said:
'Better' tyres dont necessarily perform (particularly stop) better in the wet.
In many cases what I would describe as budget tyres, and others would foolishly/ignorantly/arogantly dismiss as 'ditchfinders' have proved to be the equal or the better of superior brands in wet waether tests.
You'll have to post something to back that up - I have seen mid-range tyres do very well in the wet, but never seen ditchfinders do anything but very badly.In many cases what I would describe as budget tyres, and others would foolishly/ignorantly/arogantly dismiss as 'ditchfinders' have proved to be the equal or the better of superior brands in wet waether tests.
Surely this is the point! 'Ditchfinder' is an arbitrarily used derogatory term glibly applied by many foolish PH members to dismiss any tyres not made by Michelin.
Plenty of 'ditchfinders' have produced results which embarrass better known and respected brands. I dont have the links to hand, but German magazine wet tyre tests can easily be found on the internet.
Plenty of 'ditchfinders' have produced results which embarrass better known and respected brands. I dont have the links to hand, but German magazine wet tyre tests can easily be found on the internet.
GC8 said:
Surely this is the point! 'Ditchfinder' is an arbitrarily used derogatory term glibly applied by many foolish PH members to dismiss any tyres not made by Michelin.
Plenty of 'ditchfinders' have produced results which embarrass better known and respected brands. I dont have the links to hand, but German magazine wet tyre tests can easily be found on the internet.
Absolutely.Plenty of 'ditchfinders' have produced results which embarrass better known and respected brands. I dont have the links to hand, but German magazine wet tyre tests can easily be found on the internet.
But this thread was focussing on 'cheap and chinese', which cmoose was stating are almost identical to 'good' tyres in the dry and 'a bit' different in the wet.
Delusional? Moi?
(EFA clarity
)Edited by Orangecurry on Thursday 18th September 10:20
t breaking will be affected 
Well. Did not expect so much fuss.
Checked Cyaman front tyres available on our local market.
Trying to compare cheap to good.
Michelin Super Sport (remember very highly regarded here on PH) - efficiency F, wet grip A, noise 71 -195 Euro.
Kumho KU31 (not Chineese, many EU car manufacturers now factory fit this brand - so not the worst) - efficiency C (better than Michelin), wet grip A, noise 71 -135 Euro.
Wet grip seems to be good even for cheap Kumho, which is Korean, not Chineese.
I assume dry grip to be also good enough.
So will I see the difference in daily use? How playful would be Kumho?
Another optins to put a bit narrower tyres which seem to be more afficient and quiter. But say 225/45 makes the total diameter of a tyre 9 mm smaller, so a car will sit 5 mm lower. Is it good or not?
Or it should be 225/50 tyre to make the total diameter equal to 235/45?
Generally Porsche seems use sizes which are not very popular and kind underdeveloped...
Checked Cyaman front tyres available on our local market.
Trying to compare cheap to good.
Michelin Super Sport (remember very highly regarded here on PH) - efficiency F, wet grip A, noise 71 -195 Euro.
Kumho KU31 (not Chineese, many EU car manufacturers now factory fit this brand - so not the worst) - efficiency C (better than Michelin), wet grip A, noise 71 -135 Euro.
Wet grip seems to be good even for cheap Kumho, which is Korean, not Chineese.
I assume dry grip to be also good enough.
So will I see the difference in daily use? How playful would be Kumho?
Another optins to put a bit narrower tyres which seem to be more afficient and quiter. But say 225/45 makes the total diameter of a tyre 9 mm smaller, so a car will sit 5 mm lower. Is it good or not?
Or it should be 225/50 tyre to make the total diameter equal to 235/45?
Generally Porsche seems use sizes which are not very popular and kind underdeveloped...
I agree with the OP's discussion point, which is really saying that a car is more fun with less grip and if the thrill of driving comes from controlling a car and feeling the limits then I agree with his point.
The point is also that this feeling can be enjoyed at lower speeds hence if a child walks in to the road you would be travelling at a slower speed and hence need less distance to stop anyway.
However, I have noticed that once one has experienced greater speed and grip, it is hard to jump into a slower, less grippy car and get the same thrill. Hence in my view why the GT86/BRZ are not as succesfull as they should be. A friend of mine has a GT86 on original tyres and whilst I can appreciate what it does, I cant see me chopping in my GT3 for one.
Above is what this thread should be about. Now for the trolls.
If the child killing risk means we should all run the stickiest tyres we can, then by inference anyone buying a Prius or GT86 is a child murderer? - complete nonsense.
I thought Pistonheads was about petrol heads discussing a common passion for cars. Nearly every decent thread on here gets highjacked by trolls.
The point is also that this feeling can be enjoyed at lower speeds hence if a child walks in to the road you would be travelling at a slower speed and hence need less distance to stop anyway.
However, I have noticed that once one has experienced greater speed and grip, it is hard to jump into a slower, less grippy car and get the same thrill. Hence in my view why the GT86/BRZ are not as succesfull as they should be. A friend of mine has a GT86 on original tyres and whilst I can appreciate what it does, I cant see me chopping in my GT3 for one.
Above is what this thread should be about. Now for the trolls.
If the child killing risk means we should all run the stickiest tyres we can, then by inference anyone buying a Prius or GT86 is a child murderer? - complete nonsense.
I thought Pistonheads was about petrol heads discussing a common passion for cars. Nearly every decent thread on here gets highjacked by trolls.
You are both right.
Take a Lotus Elise, they have teeny 175 section tyres on the front. This means less grip at the front which results in understeer. If you increase the front tyre width, you alter the balance towards oversteer.
The key here is balance, not grip. If you have more front end bite, you carry more speed and therefore lift off oversteer will be found at a far higher speed, which is tougher to handle for your average driver. However, it doesn't turn your car into a drift car because you still have the outright grip from the rear tyres.
Having comparatively rubbish rear tyres reduces grip, allowing you to play with power oversteer at lower speeds.
I had my M3 CSL with rear wheels on the front; i think they were 295s all round. Mega grippy and it used to be easily quicker than a GT3, but on the limit more snappy. Wider front tyres also reduce steering feel (another reason why the Elise has a great rep for steering feel - those tiny tyres!)
Take a Lotus Elise, they have teeny 175 section tyres on the front. This means less grip at the front which results in understeer. If you increase the front tyre width, you alter the balance towards oversteer.
The key here is balance, not grip. If you have more front end bite, you carry more speed and therefore lift off oversteer will be found at a far higher speed, which is tougher to handle for your average driver. However, it doesn't turn your car into a drift car because you still have the outright grip from the rear tyres.
Having comparatively rubbish rear tyres reduces grip, allowing you to play with power oversteer at lower speeds.
I had my M3 CSL with rear wheels on the front; i think they were 295s all round. Mega grippy and it used to be easily quicker than a GT3, but on the limit more snappy. Wider front tyres also reduce steering feel (another reason why the Elise has a great rep for steering feel - those tiny tyres!)
stef1808 said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
the opposite to this 
I see what your trying to say though, all year round (read summer time) your mentioned setup would be extremely boring with a understeer bias balance - agreed
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Not strictly true I think when you look at the practicalities of driving. Although average temps may be higher than that for a lot of the time, an awful lot of driving happens early in the morning and evening rush hours (nothing gets past me eh?! ) which is early morning and late afternoon that can stretch into evening, both cooler parts of the day. So the average temp when people are on the road would tend to be significantly lower than the average daily temp. I think in the UK you can easily justify having winters on for 4 months of the year or so, if not longer. And besides, winters tend to perform better in the wet that other tyres, so even if it's not that cold, if it's a time when there's a lot of rain, you still get some benefit.Now, maybe not too many people use a 911 as an every day car, but for those of us that do, I think having a set of winters is very useful
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff