Cheap tyres - more fun?

[Mario149]

anonymous said:

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elP_34ltdWI&t=2...

6 deg and wet is not particularly unusual in the UK in winter in the morning/evening, difference appears to be more than marginal

[Mario149]

anonymous said:

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Is there a particular reason why we should not believe them? Can you link to some tests where summer tyres outperform winters in cold wet conditions?

anonymous said:

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Yes, but that's comparing apples with oranges, so not really relevant. It's whether your car old or new performs better with whatever tyre in conditions you drive in.

anonymous said:

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Is there any evidence to support it other than anecdotally from you? Evo's winter tyre test from a few years back only had the Summer tyres a few percent ahead of winters around their dry circuit not in sub 7 deg temps, and had them well behind in sub 7 deg in the wet, although they did seem to resist aquaplaning unusually well.

I get that winter tyres aren't for everyone and they are an expense, although not really that much in the grand scheme of things if you have a spare set of rims already. But running my 993 as an every day car in the south and having experienced the massive improvement winters made last year (even when not snowing) when I really needed it, I find it a little odd when people dismiss them so easily.

[Patrick Bateman]

I've run winter tyres on 3 different cars now since 2010 and I'd also say that, rather than the often quoted 7 degrees, it's closer to freezing before you really see any benefit.

[Mario149]

anonymous said:

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Saying that relativity doesn't matter is disingenuous. You can put cheap rubber on a Porsche and still be perfectly safe for the conditions you drive in, doesn't mean you would/should.

anonymous said:

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Thought not.

[hondansx]

Here at work we are mandated to have winters from October I think. Last year they were not that useful as it didn't snow at all, but the previous year they were amazing. I continued life as normal whilst most people had to leave their cars abandoned on the road! Sadly, forecasting is not good enough to tell us whether we 'need' winter tyres or not...

What i found is true what they say though, below 7 degrees they come into their own. On some days it was like someone had bolted slicks on, it was an amazing feeling driving around with visibly frosted tarmac in front of me with complete confidence.

However, economy will drop with winters and they are rubbish - almost scary - in the wet under braking. You could say this is dependent on which tyre you go for, but in two successive years i've alternated between the two best tyres according to various test and they were both rubbish in that respect.

[ORD]

anonymous said:

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The risk is that you slip eventually into a mindset where no measure that decreases risk should be turned down. Why not also only ever drive FWD? Why allow drivers to turn of ESP? Why not limit all cars to the speed limit?

Any argument that you should only ever maximise grip seems to me to be going that way.

[Mario149]

anonymous said:

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Agreed

anonymous said:

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I also agree that this can be the case - too much grip too little power, less fun etc

anonymous said:

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No, I said that winters are useful safety-wise for extra grip when it's cold (but necessarily very near freezing) and wet where summers don't perform as well. That was the context of our winter tyre discussion, not whether less grip in the summer on ditchfinders is more fun.

You'll not find me arguing for ever increasing grip when you've got a decent amount already, but my experience in winter (non snow etc but sub 7 deg and rainy) on summer rubber in a Cooper S and 993 was not a case of a bit more slidey = a bit more fun so happy days, but a safety issue several times. And swapping to winters helped, seemingly supported by a couple of tests I mentioned, so while it may not be for everyone, it's worth considering.

[braddo]

hondansx said:

...
However, economy will drop with winters and they are rubbish - almost scary - in the wet under braking. You could say this is dependent on which tyre you go for, but in two successive years i've alternated between the two best tyres according to various test and they were both rubbish in that respect.

Interesting. Is this poor wet braking only noticeable above 5-7 degrees?

I had the impression that braking in cold and wet conditions is where winter tyres have the biggest advantage over summer tyres?

[Mario149]

braddo said:

I had the impression that braking in cold and wet conditions is where winter tyres have the biggest advantage over summer tyres?

As I said above that's my experience, obviously it's going to vary by tyre brand I would say. I didn't notice any difference in economy to be fair, but you can imagine a softer tyre is likely to increase rolling resistance. Conversely a hard summer tyre made harder by the cold probably gets even better economy than normal