Cheap tyres - more fun?
Discussion
Hello,
One theoretical thing buzz my head recently...
They say GT86/BRZ are very fun cars, especially as they are tail happy due to ordinary skinny tyres even been not much powered.
Considering how balanced and grippy are Porsches, will they be more fun as weekend toys if fitted with cheap tyres (say chinees) supposedly having less grip in which you can slide through corners not on crazy speeds and can smoke them without much sorrow.
I know, for track days more grip = more fun. But for daily use or weekend?
Especially if you have other DD car with good tyres for safe and sensible driving?
Or I miss the point?
One theoretical thing buzz my head recently...
They say GT86/BRZ are very fun cars, especially as they are tail happy due to ordinary skinny tyres even been not much powered.
Considering how balanced and grippy are Porsches, will they be more fun as weekend toys if fitted with cheap tyres (say chinees) supposedly having less grip in which you can slide through corners not on crazy speeds and can smoke them without much sorrow.
I know, for track days more grip = more fun. But for daily use or weekend?
Especially if you have other DD car with good tyres for safe and sensible driving?
Or I miss the point?
Ed from Cyprus said:
Hello,
Considering how balanced and grippy are Porsches, will they be more fun as weekend toys if fitted with cheap tyres (say chinees) supposedly having less grip in which you can slide through corners not on crazy speeds and can smoke them without much sorrow.
On the contrary, 911s are balanced like pendulums. This makes weight management critical on entry and exit to a corner. Lack of grip can make this dangerous at high speed. I ran a GT3 for a while on 6 year old tyres that had baked hard in the desert sun and it was more than a little interesting.Considering how balanced and grippy are Porsches, will they be more fun as weekend toys if fitted with cheap tyres (say chinees) supposedly having less grip in which you can slide through corners not on crazy speeds and can smoke them without much sorrow.
I prefer tyres with progressive grip, so they break traction gradually, not all at once. They might not enable the fastest lap times, but that doesn't bother me. I'd far rather have warning signs I can react to. Same goes for track, where sticky tyres load up (and can wear) suspension components more.
But progressive grip is not necessarily the same thing as low grip, so I think it's tyre rather than cost dependent.
But progressive grip is not necessarily the same thing as low grip, so I think it's tyre rather than cost dependent.
im going to answer this as if you asked re "skinny" tires, and not just cheap tires
before changing them Ill drive like a complete hooligan and sideways pretty much most turns (prob shouldnt be saying this) anyway - yeah, its a lot of fun
Then new tyres on and I enjoy the grip, traction, cornering speeds etc etc.
I think if I had a 930/964/933 for eg I would indeed keep it on skinny tyres and enjoy the handling characteristics of the car
[on a side note, I run a e92 335 with circa 600 bhp and semi slick tires on slippery Greek roads, within 2 days I like to wear down the grip (thanks roundabouts!) to be more slidey ]
My gt3 though will mostly always have good rubber on it.
Since you mentioned the gt86, I think its worth mentioning, yes It might have skinny tyres on,, but they are prieus tires.... I cant live with that :S dunno why though, as I do love the car every time Ive driven it :P
before changing them Ill drive like a complete hooligan and sideways pretty much most turns (prob shouldnt be saying this) anyway - yeah, its a lot of fun
Then new tyres on and I enjoy the grip, traction, cornering speeds etc etc.
I think if I had a 930/964/933 for eg I would indeed keep it on skinny tyres and enjoy the handling characteristics of the car
[on a side note, I run a e92 335 with circa 600 bhp and semi slick tires on slippery Greek roads, within 2 days I like to wear down the grip (thanks roundabouts!) to be more slidey ] My gt3 though will mostly always have good rubber on it.
Since you mentioned the gt86, I think its worth mentioning, yes It might have skinny tyres on,, but they are prieus tires.... I cant live with that :S dunno why though, as I do love the car every time Ive driven it :P
Edited by stef1808 on Wednesday 17th September 15:17
Edited by stef1808 on Wednesday 17th September 15:22
Ed from Cyprus said:
I know, for track days more grip = more fun. But for daily use or weekend?
Especially if you have other DD car with good tyres for safe and sensible driving?
Thing is cheap tyres may well help you "get the back out" (intentional loss of control on the public highway of course being "Driving without due care and attention" or "Driving without reasonable consideration" - both attracting up to a Level 5 fine and 3 to 9 points) but they also won't stop you very well when another bloke coming the other way decides to also have some "fun".Especially if you have other DD car with good tyres for safe and sensible driving?
I think your theory is sound - but keep it for the track, eh?
Ed from Cyprus said:
Hello,
One theoretical thing buzz my head recently...
They say GT86/BRZ are very fun cars, especially as they are tail happy due to ordinary skinny tyres even been not much powered.
Considering how balanced and grippy are Porsches, will they be more fun as weekend toys if fitted with cheap tyres (say chinees) supposedly having less grip in which you can slide through corners not on crazy speeds and can smoke them without much sorrow.
I know, for track days more grip = more fun. But for daily use or weekend?
Especially if you have other DD car with good tyres for safe and sensible driving?
Or I miss the point?
yup right up to the point when a kid runs out in the road and you have to do an emergency stop One theoretical thing buzz my head recently...
They say GT86/BRZ are very fun cars, especially as they are tail happy due to ordinary skinny tyres even been not much powered.
Considering how balanced and grippy are Porsches, will they be more fun as weekend toys if fitted with cheap tyres (say chinees) supposedly having less grip in which you can slide through corners not on crazy speeds and can smoke them without much sorrow.
I know, for track days more grip = more fun. But for daily use or weekend?
Especially if you have other DD car with good tyres for safe and sensible driving?
Or I miss the point?
I agree with cmoose. In fact, some of these comments border on ridiculous!
Bear in mind that, for the GT3, Porsche set out to build a car that is faster than its rivals around a track. Whilst fun (more like approachability for those of lesser driving ability than Porsche test drivers) would be nice, the likes of PDK show a clear sign of looking for speed (grip) over fun (less grip). This was backed up at the launch of the GT3 where one of Porsche's representatives said they offer a manual 911 Carrera for those that just wanted to have fun.
So then, that would suggest if they set out to build a GT3 for fun and fun only, it would still be manual and be on 17" wheels. The problem? It would be beaten by everything from a Nissan GTR to 458 Speciale on track and 'wow' factor, and therefore Porsche risk losing their aura, their sales, and their profits.
[Cue a Pistonheader saying "but i'd buy one!", representing a teeny percentage of the market]
So, I am with the OP. Yes, if you want fun, fit crappy tyres. I wouldn't because i like my cars to look good, and i love the 20" wheels on the GT3, so i'd never take them off. I can still get it sideways on track (personally i love sliding about, it relies on skill, not on the ability of the car) and on road i just smile to myself because i'm driving a Porsche.
Bear in mind that, for the GT3, Porsche set out to build a car that is faster than its rivals around a track. Whilst fun (more like approachability for those of lesser driving ability than Porsche test drivers) would be nice, the likes of PDK show a clear sign of looking for speed (grip) over fun (less grip). This was backed up at the launch of the GT3 where one of Porsche's representatives said they offer a manual 911 Carrera for those that just wanted to have fun.
So then, that would suggest if they set out to build a GT3 for fun and fun only, it would still be manual and be on 17" wheels. The problem? It would be beaten by everything from a Nissan GTR to 458 Speciale on track and 'wow' factor, and therefore Porsche risk losing their aura, their sales, and their profits.
[Cue a Pistonheader saying "but i'd buy one!", representing a teeny percentage of the market]
So, I am with the OP. Yes, if you want fun, fit crappy tyres. I wouldn't because i like my cars to look good, and i love the 20" wheels on the GT3, so i'd never take them off. I can still get it sideways on track (personally i love sliding about, it relies on skill, not on the ability of the car) and on road i just smile to myself because i'm driving a Porsche.
im just saying ...
from a nissan gtr to a 458s
...
kinda the same thing these days performance wise
although point understood
anyway, I think the answer here is... buy a drift car
and for your road car, aim for best tires you can afford and even upsize maybe
from a nissan gtr to a 458s
...
kinda the same thing these days performance wise
although point understood
anyway, I think the answer here is... buy a drift car
and for your road car, aim for best tires you can afford and even upsize maybe
Edited by stef1808 on Wednesday 17th September 17:34
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Wrong and wrong.1st: Continental Premium Contact 5
Total: 93.5 / Dry: 20 / Wet: 38 / Rolling Resistance: 8 / Comfort: 9 / Noise: 9 / Overall: 9.5
Positive: Excellent handling on dry and wet roads, good stability
Negative: High fuel consumption
Overall: The Continental Premium Contact 5 provides excellent grip and optimal handling in bad weather. They are very accurate tyres with good steering response and good stability at the limit. They are also very quiet and comfortable. The Continental is almost the ideal tyre for all conditions, with only a high rolling resistance letting them down
14th: Hercules Raptis VR1
Total: 69.7 / Dry: 15 / Wet: 24 / Rolling Resistance: 8 / Comfort: 8 / Noise: 8 / Overall: 6.7
Positive: None listed
Negative: Poor grip and bad handling in all conditions, noisy
Overall: The Hercules could not deal with any test. Wet grip is very weak, and these tyres make driving especially difficult. In the dry the tyres make the back of the car snap sharply during high-speed maneuvers. The Hercules is also very noisy and hard, and they high rolling resistance. Hercules - is a Chinese-made tires at its worst
15th: Continental WinterContact TS 850
Total: 79.7 / Dry: 14 / Wet: 31 / Rolling Resistance: 9 / Comfort: 9 / Noise: 9 / Overall: 7.7
Overall: The Continental TS850 P is a european winter tyre included for comparison purposes. While it wasn't last in wet braking (the Hercules was the worst summer tyre) it did stop 5.6 meters later than the best summer tyre (Apollo) from 50mph. While not the best tyre on test, it shows a high quality mid european winter tyre can be used year round, and you'll still have more grip than using a cheap chinese summer tyre
When I put winters on - and good ones - I feel like I have skinny tires. Much worse under braking, on turn in, and powering out of bends. You can feel them squirm. Unless it's very cold of course in which case they are marginally better,. But in snow, slush and some types of ice they are miles better. Always glad to get decent summers back in but I need the grip during the winter where I live.
Much worse under braking, on turn in, and powering out of bends. You can feel them squirm. Unless it's very cold of course in which case they are marginally better,. But in snow, slush and some types of ice they are miles better. Always glad to get decent summers back in but I need the grip during the winter where I live.anonymous said:
[redacted]
That's because your head is buried in the sand. 
Here you go. I've not even quoted the worst tyre.
2nd: Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2
Dry: 35.4m / Wet: 44.1m
45th: Wanli S1063
Dry: 41.3m / Wet: 61m
anonymous said:
[redacted]
So 6 metres in the dry is 'a little' and 17 metres in the wet is 'a bit'?Full article:
Autobild said:
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2012-Autobild...
...the best tyre (Nokian Z G2) stopped in just 44 meters in the wet from 100kph, while the worst tyre on test, the Rockstone F105, required nearly 28 metres further to stop at 71.7 metres! The Nokians wet braking distance was only a little longer than the worse dry braking score, at 42 metres for the Runway.
...the best tyre (Nokian Z G2) stopped in just 44 meters in the wet from 100kph, while the worst tyre on test, the Rockstone F105, required nearly 28 metres further to stop at 71.7 metres! The Nokians wet braking distance was only a little longer than the worse dry braking score, at 42 metres for the Runway.
Guys
The think of the children comments are a dead end. I assume you all;
Never speed
Always drive a new car with the latest tech
Change your tyres at 3mm. Theres significantly reduced grip in the wet, especially braking.
Never drive tired
Etc etc
A car with reduced grip levels driven accordingly and enjoyed is no more dangerous than anything else.
The think of the children comments are a dead end. I assume you all;
Never speed
Always drive a new car with the latest tech
Change your tyres at 3mm. Theres significantly reduced grip in the wet, especially braking.
Never drive tired
Etc etc
A car with reduced grip levels driven accordingly and enjoyed is no more dangerous than anything else.
Currently have new PSS's on the front and ditchfinders on the back (brand new when I bought it - not through choice!) of my Cayman.
In the dry, I cannot fault the ditchfinders - 265 wide on the rear in a relatively low powered and well balanced car means anything will grip well enough - you need to be driving like a hamfisted buffoon to get it breaking traction.
In the wet, it's a different kettle of fish - the rear end is twitchier than a rabbit's nose...
In the dry, I cannot fault the ditchfinders - 265 wide on the rear in a relatively low powered and well balanced car means anything will grip well enough - you need to be driving like a hamfisted buffoon to get it breaking traction.
In the wet, it's a different kettle of fish - the rear end is twitchier than a rabbit's nose...
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