964RS Race Car - What's it worth?

964RS Race Car - What's it worth?

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Discussion

stroller

Original Poster:

169 posts

204 months

Thursday 25th September 2014
quotequote all
Apologies for yet another 'what's it worth' thread, but this one is a bit more unusual...

A friend has a genuine 964RS Lightweight that I believe was supplied directly to Exclusively Nine, a Porsche Specialist in the North, in 1992. It was never registered with DVLA. It was stripped out and race prepared. In it's maiden year (1992) Craig Simmiss won the British Porsche Supercup series, which appears to have been a Porsche series with different models taking part, similar to the latter Porsche Open series (Not to be confused with the one make/model Supercup or Carrera Cup Series for Cup Cars).

It was later modified, engine rebuilt and supercharged. It was changed from it's original Rubystone paint to Mint Green. It was then raced in the Porsche Open Series, Intermarque and some other open championship races. At some stage the original engine was replaced, so it is not a 'matching numbers' car. As with all race cars, it has been a little battle scarred but was repaired by a Porsche Approved Body Repair Specialist, whom the driver had a sponsorship deal with. Following its last race, the car was parked and due to a number of reasons, has been laid up for about 8 years in a dry, warm garage.

My friend is looking to move the car on and we have been discussing how to value it. Clearly, it will not appeal to anyone looking for a straight, unmolested garage queen/road car. It could be purchased by someone looking for a very quick track day toy, which with a few minor alterations, could be road registered and driven to the circuits. Alternatively it may appeal to someone looking for a project and perhaps take it back to it's original race spec. We were made aware of a magazine write up on the car following it's Supercup Championship win (it featured in a six page spread in 911&Porsche World in March/April 1993 edition).

It is RHD so must have been one of a very limited number of cars? How many RHD RS's came to the UK?

Your thoughts please?!


r4_rick

452 posts

214 months

Thursday 25th September 2014
quotequote all
this could be interesting with the value of "normal" rs's going crazy, does a track day/race car command even more of a premium ? wish i had the knowledge to add something of value to the thread rather than the above.

mollytherocker

14,365 posts

208 months

Thursday 25th September 2014
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stroller

Original Poster:

169 posts

204 months

Thursday 25th September 2014
quotequote all
I would say a mint road car would be worth a lot more, but this presumably would still be desirable, having good provenance winning the Porsche Supercup, having a number of trophies and a magazine article to support this.

Koln-RS

3,848 posts

211 months

Thursday 25th September 2014
quotequote all
In the current 'bullish' climate, an auction might be the best place to get the best and fairest price and its true 'value'.

The NEC Autosport International auction (Coys I think) would be a good choice.

It will get an international audience, informed buyers, and a timescale that would enable it to be correctly presented.

He might get offers in the meantime, but anyone serious would also bid at auction.


Koln-RS

3,848 posts

211 months

Thursday 25th September 2014
quotequote all
Oh, and auctions love 'barn finds'

stroller

Original Poster:

169 posts

204 months

Thursday 25th September 2014
quotequote all
Koln-RS said:
In the current 'bullish' climate, an auction might be the best place to get the best and fairest price and its true 'value'.

The NEC Autosport International auction (Coys I think) would be a good choice.

It will get an international audience, informed buyers, and a timescale that would enable it to be correctly presented.

He might get offers in the meantime, but anyone serious would also bid at auction.
Yeah thanks, that was mentioned as an idea.

Steve Rance

5,435 posts

230 months

Saturday 27th September 2014
quotequote all
Te condition of the car is very important. I have an ex UK Carrera cup 993 which i fully restored. The car looked great when I bought it but I knew what to expect. After it was acid dipped, it was clear that a lifetime of racing had taken a toll on the car and wings, rear quarters, inner sills and even the roof needed replacing along with the Ali bonnet and engine cover. I short, just about every panel on the car was replaced along with a complete overhaul of the engine, gearbox and running gear. As you can imagine, the restoration cost was considerably higher than the purchase price.

Ex racing cars are generally a bit of a poison challace. Great for history and provenance but they have a hard life. when they start their life in the higher formulae budgets tend to be reasonable and repairs/refreshes are done to a decent standard and to recommended lifing of components. As the car is sold on and no longer competitive in higher formulae, budgets, tend to be a lot lower and repairs tend to be 'practical' rather than asthetic. And generally, if they wont make the car go faster, they don't get done. So unless you have a car that has been through this loop and is now legible for historic racing - and therefore once again been lavished with high running budgets, it's likely to need a lot of work - possible a total rebuild/restoration to make it seriously attractive to a knowlegible buyer.

Your best bet may be to look at the historic reg's and see what categories (if any ) the car can compete in and if so, how competitive it might be. If it can and is, you will find a buyer for good money.

Edited by Steve Rance on Saturday 27th September 15:12

ellroy

7,005 posts

224 months

Saturday 27th September 2014
quotequote all
Have you tried speaking to Malton Specialist. Cars?

Mark Mullan et al often have race cars in stock and may be able to give some steer.

mudy

874 posts

171 months

Saturday 27th September 2014
quotequote all
Steve Rance said:
Te condition of the car is very important. I have an ex UK Carrera cup 993 which i fully restored. The car looked great when I bought it but I knew what to expect. After it was acid dipped, it was clear that a lifetime of racing had taken a toll on the car and wings, rear quarters, inner sills and even the roof needed replacing along with the Ali bonnet and engine cover. I short, just about every panel on the car was replaced along with a complete overhaul of the engine, gearbox and running gear. As you can imagine, the restoration cost was considerably higher than the purchase price.

Ex racing cars are generally a bit of a poison challace. Great for history and provenance but they have a hard life. when they start their life in the higher formulae budgets tend to be reasonable and repairs/refreshes are done to a decent standard and to recommended lifing of components. As the car is sold on and no longer competitive in higher formulae, budgets, tend to be a lot lower and repairs tend to be 'practical' rather than asthetic. And generally, if they wont make the car go faster, they don't get done. So unless you have a car that has been through this loop and is now legible for historic racing - and therefore once again been lavished with high running budgets, it's likely to need a lot of work - possible a total rebuild/restoration to make it seriously attractive to a knowlegible buyer.

Your best bet may be to look at the historic reg's and see what categories (if any ) the car can compete in and if so, how competitive it might be. If it can and is, you will find a buyer for good money.

Edited by Steve Rance on Saturday 27th September 15:12
Now there's a useful and informative post cool

graemel

7,015 posts

216 months

Saturday 27th September 2014
quotequote all
Does Dave Lease still own it.
We use to race against each other in the Open and the Intermarque.

stroller

Original Poster:

169 posts

204 months

Saturday 27th September 2014
quotequote all
Steve Rance said:
Te condition of the car is very important. I have an ex UK Carrera cup 993 which i fully restored. The car looked great when I bought it but I knew what to expect. After it was acid dipped, it was clear that a lifetime of racing had taken a toll on the car and wings, rear quarters, inner sills and even the roof needed replacing along with the Ali bonnet and engine cover. I short, just about every panel on the car was replaced along with a complete overhaul of the engine, gearbox and running gear. As you can imagine, the restoration cost was considerably higher than the purchase price.

Ex racing cars are generally a bit of a poison challace. Great for history and provenance but they have a hard life. when they start their life in the higher formulae budgets tend to be reasonable and repairs/refreshes are done to a decent standard and to recommended lifing of components. As the car is sold on and no longer competitive in higher formulae, budgets, tend to be a lot lower and repairs tend to be 'practical' rather than asthetic. And generally, if they wont make the car go faster, they don't get done. So unless you have a car that has been through this loop and is now legible for historic racing - and therefore once again been lavished with high running budgets, it's likely to need a lot of work - possible a total rebuild/restoration to make it seriously attractive to a knowlegible buyer.

Your best bet may be to look at the historic reg's and see what categories (if any ) the car can compete in and if so, how competitive it might be. If it can and is, you will find a buyer for good money.

Edited by Steve Rance on Saturday 27th September 15:12
Thanks Steve, definitely food for thought. The car actually seems pretty sound, but as you say, until it is stripped back, you never really can tell what the shell is like underneath. If I bought it, I think I would enjoy it for a bit in it's modified form, seems a waste not to have some fun before any potential restoration...

stroller

Original Poster:

169 posts

204 months

Saturday 27th September 2014
quotequote all
graemel said:
Does Dave Lease still own it.
We use to race against each other in the Open and the Intermarque.
Yes it is David Lees car. What were you racing? I used to help David at some of the race weekends. It was good fun. Brought back some good memories viewing the car again last week. I would love to buy it, but don't think the Mrs would be best pleased !

hunter 66

3,887 posts

219 months

Sunday 28th September 2014
quotequote all
Give Paul Mclean a call at GT Classics .......... he really knows these cars and is very straight.

stroller

Original Poster:

169 posts

204 months

Sunday 28th September 2014
quotequote all
hunter 66 said:
Give Paul Mclean a call at GT Classics .......... he really knows these cars and is very straight.
Thanks, someone else has recommended him as well. I have passed his details onto David.

BIG GT2

348 posts

144 months

Sunday 28th September 2014
quotequote all
Wasnt this twin supercharged at the death? Remember seeing it at mallory many moons ago. Did a bit in British gts as well I think. Saw it at brands, also a while ago

BIG GT2

348 posts

144 months

Sunday 28th September 2014
quotequote all
Wasnt this twin supercharged at the death? Remember seeing it at mallory many moons ago. Did a bit in British gts as well I think. Saw it at brands, also a while ago

Steve Rance

5,435 posts

230 months

Sunday 28th September 2014
quotequote all
hunter 66 said:
Give Paul Mclean a call at GT Classics .......... he really knows these cars and is very straight.
Without doubt Paul is your Man. He oversaw the build of my car. Unrivalled knowledge of RS/race aicooled and a very decent chap.

Yellow491

2,911 posts

118 months

Sunday 28th September 2014
quotequote all
Steve Rance said:
hunter 66 said:
Give Paul Mclean a call at GT Classics .......... he really knows these cars and is very straight.
Without doubt Paul is your Man. He oversaw the build of my car. Unrivalled knowledge of RS/race aicooled and a very decent chap.
He is still learning!
I thought he had always been straight hunterconfused

graemel

7,015 posts

216 months

Sunday 28th September 2014
quotequote all
stroller said:
Yes it is David Lees car. What were you racing? I used to help David at some of the race weekends. It was good fun. Brought back some good memories viewing the car again last week. I would love to buy it, but don't think the Mrs would be best pleased !
Narrow bodied 3.2 Carrera with a 3.3 turbo engine. Iris blue metallic. We had some very close races. I had more outright speed but Dave had better brakes and handling.
I'd say, buy it if it is reasonable money. You only live once smile