Is now the time to buy an early 996 or 997 carrera?
Discussion
I've noticed some garages offering bearing upgrades for around £2000. Would a sensible idea be to buy a reasonable 996 and get it straight in for one of these upgrades? Would that not stop the engine breaking? Or if bought from a dealer, would their warranty not cover potential engine issues?
drmark said:
Honest opinion? If you want an event - on a shortish trip - go air cooled. But if you want a great daily driver get a 997 (996 doesn't look right to me). And buy post 2006 . Potential 997 owners spend too much time worrying about stuff that will probably never happen, while air cooled guys conveniently forget the fortune they spend on annual up keep.
Agreed - I originally started looking at a late 997.1 but, partly for peace of mind, I took a deep breath and ponied up for a 997.2 C2S, with which I'm delighted (I'm much less delighted with OPC, but that's a different story). I also took the trouble to find a good manual, as I prefer the driving experience. I'd planned to get the hang of 911s on that then think about a GT3. Whilst I'd still like one, prices of those have already escalated of late and, in fact - and as I'd thought might happen - late 997.2 manual prices seem to have hardly shifted in two years. Having now driven a number of 991s, on road and track, manual and PDK, I think they're great cars but don't actually give the experience I'm looking for. I rather think that the NA 996/997 manuals will come to be seen as the zenith of the water-cooled cars and that, long-term, values may reflect that. So unless I fall for the GT3, mine is a keeper and I'm just going to get on with driving and enjoying it. I've been thinking about this, since seeing the RPM, CSR 997 at the Brands Porsche Festival. With my GT3 996.2, getting towards 45/50k in value. I started looking at the classifieds. An early 2S, with high ish mileage, can be picked up for 17k. Slap on some decent, suspension, keep some funds back for potential engine problems, and I've got a better looking car, to track for half the money.
RPM will blueprint the engine for 10k, with decent bhp figures.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
RPM will blueprint the engine for 10k, with decent bhp figures.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Edited by rallyeman on Sunday 19th October 13:29
Edited by rallyeman on Sunday 19th October 13:35
Prices on 996 C4S have bottomed out and are holding steady (e.g. £20k for 50k miles). If I hadn't put 23k miles on mine in the last 2.5 years I could sell mine for what I paid for it. But I don't expect it to go up either. So it's the perfect position - no age-related depreciation but not an investment. So I will use it every day for what it was designed for - to drive, and accept that it will go down in value due to mileage increasing over time.
Hi all,
I am selling my TVR t350c and looking at 997.1's the TVR was supposed to be unreliable but has never broken the engine again has serious issues.
I have a little lad now so the back seats are a massive advantage I am hoping this car will be a keeper for a long time. I am looking at about 33k. The perfect car would be a Aero kitted 997.
Hope to be part of the club once the car sells.
I am selling my TVR t350c and looking at 997.1's the TVR was supposed to be unreliable but has never broken the engine again has serious issues.
I have a little lad now so the back seats are a massive advantage I am hoping this car will be a keeper for a long time. I am looking at about 33k. The perfect car would be a Aero kitted 997.
Hope to be part of the club once the car sells.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...
Here's another but of the 997 variety. Fuchs alloys, 21k miles and only £25.5k
It's alright advocating air cooled but how much would a 964 or 993 with that mileage end up costing these days?! Double?
Then think of say a nice 3.4 carrera 996, 40k miles, good history and spec-say around £15k? What would an equivalent air cooled car cost, £45k? thats 3 times the price! for an older car that can easily spit you large bills at the drop of a hat
Excluding optional upgrades I've done, but including work that some people might be happy to leave out, my 993 has cost me about 30p/mile in servicing/maintenance/consumables as my daily driver over 20 months and 18k miles which is quite reasonable I think. That also includes about 2 full track days. A 996 would prob come in less, but not by a massive amount I'd wager.
BUT, I'd happily own a vanilla 996.1 C2 for the peanuts they cost compared to getting into a 993. My mate and his wife have one of the former with factory aerokit and it's lovely. They stuck a Carnewal exhaust on it and it's probably the best €400 you can spend. For the £11k or so it's probably worth it is astounding value for a car. They're after more modern flashy stuff now, but can't bring themselves to sell it. if they did, I'd be tempted to have it off them on principle even though my gf would probably kill me.
One thing I've learned in the last few years is that for fun road driving, less bhp can be more in a sports car. Once you hit 200-and-a-bit bhp/tonne, you've generally got plenty enough to be getting on with so long as the car feels good, especially of you're talking about Porsche's torquey flat 6s in 911s (Boxster/Cayman engines somehow don't feel quite as strong) which seem to have ponies available beyond what the tech specs say. I can hand on heart say that my average overall enjoyment of wringing out a 993 or 996 on the road is higher (especially in the former) than when pedalling my 7.1 GT3 on the road. The GT3 is great in terms of occasion and at certain moments truly shines, but always feels like you're forever reigning it in. Sure, it can provide instantaneous thrills that can't be bettered by the 993 and 996 and on track the GT3 is simply magic even in my amateur hands, but overall they're better as a road package.
BUT, I'd happily own a vanilla 996.1 C2 for the peanuts they cost compared to getting into a 993. My mate and his wife have one of the former with factory aerokit and it's lovely. They stuck a Carnewal exhaust on it and it's probably the best €400 you can spend. For the £11k or so it's probably worth it is astounding value for a car. They're after more modern flashy stuff now, but can't bring themselves to sell it. if they did, I'd be tempted to have it off them on principle even though my gf would probably kill me.
One thing I've learned in the last few years is that for fun road driving, less bhp can be more in a sports car. Once you hit 200-and-a-bit bhp/tonne, you've generally got plenty enough to be getting on with so long as the car feels good, especially of you're talking about Porsche's torquey flat 6s in 911s (Boxster/Cayman engines somehow don't feel quite as strong) which seem to have ponies available beyond what the tech specs say. I can hand on heart say that my average overall enjoyment of wringing out a 993 or 996 on the road is higher (especially in the former) than when pedalling my 7.1 GT3 on the road. The GT3 is great in terms of occasion and at certain moments truly shines, but always feels like you're forever reigning it in. Sure, it can provide instantaneous thrills that can't be bettered by the 993 and 996 and on track the GT3 is simply magic even in my amateur hands, but overall they're better as a road package.
xftdr said:
Is now the time to buy an early 996 or 997 carrera?
No.
Engine. Bang. Nuff said.
No.
Engine. Bang. Nuff said.
Yes, buy a brand new Ford Focus 1.6 for double the money.
Instead of a (small?) possibility of a big bill for the engine with the 911, you'll have a guaranteed loss of a similar amount via depreciation, and it'll be a lot more fun to drive.
Plus you can brag about owning a Ford. Chicks dig them.
Ermm, hang on a tick...
monthefish said:
xftdr said:
Is now the time to buy an early 996 or 997 carrera?
No.
Engine. Bang. Nuff said.
No.
Engine. Bang. Nuff said.
Yes, buy a brand new Ford Focus 1.6 for double the money.
Instead of a (small?) possibility of a big bill for the engine with the 911, you'll have a guaranteed loss of a similar amount via depreciation, and it'll be a lot more fun to drive.
Plus you can brag about owning a Ford. Chicks dig them.
Ermm, hang on a tick...
LaurasOtherHalf said:
All 911s have gone through the doldrums, ask anyone into the marque for long enough & it really isn't that long since a 993 was simply neither classic nor modern, a 964 a leaky old thing, impact bumpers another 80's throwback & even 2.7rs' just old thrashed old race cars.
But an early 996 with the dual row IMS? There are very few mint ones out there & at £15k give or take are they really half a 964?
We all know the engine risks-but look at how many air cooled cars are advertised with engine refreshes & you start to wonder if it's really that much different.
Discuss...
How much do you think Laura's Mini's worth now as a PX? But an early 996 with the dual row IMS? There are very few mint ones out there & at £15k give or take are they really half a 964?
We all know the engine risks-but look at how many air cooled cars are advertised with engine refreshes & you start to wonder if it's really that much different.
Discuss...
Edited by LaurasOtherHalf on Saturday 18th October 16:58
I've just taken a deposit on my 70k 996 3.4, at the back of my mind is the thought that its going to join the likes of my Mk2 Rs2000 and Sierra Cosworth "shouldn't have sold that"
the lightly used, manual 996's will join the list of desirable 911s, no doubt about that in my mind
going to spend the proceeds on my e34 m5, 3.8......just hope that is a sound decision
the lightly used, manual 996's will join the list of desirable 911s, no doubt about that in my mind
going to spend the proceeds on my e34 m5, 3.8......just hope that is a sound decision
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