Prospective 981 GT4 Owners Discussion Forum.
Discussion
458 said:
So, I guess everyone who is so desperate to have a GT4 has tried a GTS and this just doesn't hit the spot? I'm interested to know what is wrong with the GTS with people on here, because everyone I speak to absolutely raves over them.
What makes people so convinced the GT4 is 'the one' when you haven't even seen it in the flesh? No-one has even test driven it yet.
I'm not so sure a great deal of this interest and hype is from the current market situation with the GT3.
The whole motoring enthusiast fraternity has gone mad for GT cars. They haven't suddenly got better, it's just everyone wants to profit out of it.
+1 - whilst this is, I'm sure, a massive disappointment for many potential customers, I think the reaction of some people on here to not getting a car is absolutely ridiculous. There are far worse things to focus your attention on than not owning a sports car. Also if you have £70k+ to spend on a car, you're fortunate enough to have a number of fine motoring options, both new and used. To me it appears that the real issue is that most people on here also wanted the opportunity to own a car that might increase in price. Isn't this the same greed that 918 owners are being accused of? I mean, why not buy the new Exige 400 - that'll probably have more aero, run rings around a GT4 on track and probably won't depreciate that much either, given that there aren't many focused cars in this price range.What makes people so convinced the GT4 is 'the one' when you haven't even seen it in the flesh? No-one has even test driven it yet.
I'm not so sure a great deal of this interest and hype is from the current market situation with the GT3.
The whole motoring enthusiast fraternity has gone mad for GT cars. They haven't suddenly got better, it's just everyone wants to profit out of it.
458 said:
To be fair, none of us really know who's getting them, and I'd be surprised if any dealer will tell you now. Also, it's probably a load of Pistonheads Hype that makes out some 918 owners are getting them, people fuelling the fire.
Who says the serial GT car buyer isn't an enthusiast? Exactly, he is one as well as you, it's just his loyalty is rewarded.
It's only recently that GT cars have shot up in price. I could give countless examples of really good cars at normal money not so long ago. Many GT car owners have felt the pain over the years and if Porsche dealers reward them with a Cayman GT4 who cares, that dealer has relied upon these customers through a long recession to buy cars off them.
Which all would be well and good if Porsche OPC's weren't employing a LOI systems and taking deposits, only then to renege on the whole system. There have been people who have been given Geneva hospitailty passes and PEC day correspondence only to be told they aren't getting a car.......I don't care about GT cars making money......the above is just plain crappy handling of potentially new customers.Who says the serial GT car buyer isn't an enthusiast? Exactly, he is one as well as you, it's just his loyalty is rewarded.
It's only recently that GT cars have shot up in price. I could give countless examples of really good cars at normal money not so long ago. Many GT car owners have felt the pain over the years and if Porsche dealers reward them with a Cayman GT4 who cares, that dealer has relied upon these customers through a long recession to buy cars off them.
J-P said:
+1 - whilst this is, I'm sure, a massive disappointment for many potential customers, I think the reaction of some people on here to not getting a car is absolutely ridiculous .... To me it appears that the real issue is that most people on here also wanted the opportunity to own a car that might increase in price.
Agreed. The poor reaction by some is likely driven by the premium the GT3 is currently commanding in the hope the GT4 will follow suit. The DP at OPC Chester has been up front and essentially outlined how cars will be allocated regardless of the order that letters of intent or deposits placed. At the end of the day, OPCs did not know their allocations at the time the car was announced so invited deposits to crystallise interest in the car. Neither Porsche nor its OPCs have done anything wrong here in my view.If someone wants a car like the GT4, and expect to be able to buy it from the OPC, they should already have built up their long term relationship with the brand. Having spent a small fortune on new Porsches continuously over the last 15 years, I'd be understandably annoyed if a car I want was sold to someone who's new to the brand instead of me. Likewise, I was advised by my new OPC that I will receive an early GT4 with the exception of possibly its 918 customers which is understandable. Both OPCs know that I'm a long standing Porsche customer and not a speculator.
I recall that nobody made this kind of fuss over previous GT3s including the 991 GT3 because, apart from maybe an initial small premium, they all depreciated albeit at a slower rate. I was the sole depositor for a 991 GT3 at my local OPC up till about August 2013 and, even then, the OPC only had one more customer for the car by December. I'm at a loss to understand where the sense of entitlement comes from by some people who've only recently woken up to Porsche and its GT cars.
458 said:
It's only recently that GT cars have shot up in price. I could give countless examples of really good cars at normal money not so long ago. Many GT car owners have felt the pain over the years and if Porsche dealers reward them with a Cayman GT4 who cares, that dealer has relied upon these customers through a long recession to buy cars off them.
Very well said.Sarnie said:
.......I don't care about GT cars making money......the above is just plain crappy handling of potentially new customers.
Welcome to the world of Porsche.Edited by Sierra Mike on Sunday 1st March 03:55
I've not been told that I'm not getting one yet so still in with a shot.
Now we know how exclusive it's going to be im thinking I might revise my spec and add a few things that I don't really care about like PDLS and Sport Chrono because I know some people really care about them. It feels like I have some sort of responsibility to get the spec right.
Now we know how exclusive it's going to be im thinking I might revise my spec and add a few things that I don't really care about like PDLS and Sport Chrono because I know some people really care about them. It feels like I have some sort of responsibility to get the spec right.
Sarnie said:
458 said:
To be fair, none of us really know who's getting them, and I'd be surprised if any dealer will tell you now. Also, it's probably a load of Pistonheads Hype that makes out some 918 owners are getting them, people fuelling the fire.
Who says the serial GT car buyer isn't an enthusiast? Exactly, he is one as well as you, it's just his loyalty is rewarded.
It's only recently that GT cars have shot up in price. I could give countless examples of really good cars at normal money not so long ago. Many GT car owners have felt the pain over the years and if Porsche dealers reward them with a Cayman GT4 who cares, that dealer has relied upon these customers through a long recession to buy cars off them.
[/quote
Which all would be well and good if Porsche OPC's weren't employing a LOI systems and taking deposits, only then to renege on the whole system. There have been people who have been given Geneva hospitailty passes and PEC day correspondence only to be told they aren't getting a car.......I don't care about GT cars making money......the above is just plain crappy handling of potentially new customers.
But why limit production. I don't get the residuals argument. It isn't true and why do porsche care. They are a business so surely slling 500 extra GT cars is a plusWho says the serial GT car buyer isn't an enthusiast? Exactly, he is one as well as you, it's just his loyalty is rewarded.
It's only recently that GT cars have shot up in price. I could give countless examples of really good cars at normal money not so long ago. Many GT car owners have felt the pain over the years and if Porsche dealers reward them with a Cayman GT4 who cares, that dealer has relied upon these customers through a long recession to buy cars off them.
[/quote
Which all would be well and good if Porsche OPC's weren't employing a LOI systems and taking deposits, only then to renege on the whole system. There have been people who have been given Geneva hospitailty passes and PEC day correspondence only to be told they aren't getting a car.......I don't care about GT cars making money......the above is just plain crappy handling of potentially new customers.
I disagree with the gt4 being sort after for profit by lot of the let down massive!i for one like many 987 fans have always wanted a 3.8 version of the boxster/Cayman platform and for me the gt4 would have been a long term keeper to replace my 987 Spyder ! The Gts although maybe a good car it is not that far removed from the 987 spyder/R so current owners of these cars would not be gaining anything apart from a shiny new car with an extra 10 hp whereas the gt4 is a real move forward!i for one would be happy if porsche had made a Cayman GTS with a 3.8 engine and x73 suspension as a production model but they don't so for me the gt4 is the only new porsche I would like to buy and currently all the other models do not appeal to me!
If the caymanR had been delivered with the 3.8 or even the 3.6 engine with a healthy 360hp+ I for one would have bought one of those new and the gt4 would have not been a must have for me and may be others as well.
Maybe porsche should have given us spyder/r owners first refusal of a gt4 not 918/gt3 owners to me that would be fairer as we have shown loyalty to the boxster/Cayman platform over the years!
If the caymanR had been delivered with the 3.8 or even the 3.6 engine with a healthy 360hp+ I for one would have bought one of those new and the gt4 would have not been a must have for me and may be others as well.
Maybe porsche should have given us spyder/r owners first refusal of a gt4 not 918/gt3 owners to me that would be fairer as we have shown loyalty to the boxster/Cayman platform over the years!
That's a good point Itsy - those that bought new CR's and Spyders put their faith in the cars when they weren't selling at all well, and even when predictions of a large loss in value were being touted, so we took a gamble.
Therefore, those owners should get first dibs on the GT4...
(And I don't even want one)
Therefore, those owners should get first dibs on the GT4...
(And I don't even want one)
You lot make up some good stories.
I,ll be driving mine , tracking mine and keeping mine for a year or two.
I also know quite a few people who will be doing the same.
The RS is the car the 918 people are buying and yes a few will get flipped
2 top garages ( plus many more) will be getting 991 RS cars from 918 clients wanting to make £80k
I think the GT4 cars will end up in the hands of the right people and not rich people.
All this fueled by a few people who did not get one and shouted loudest (even though some were way down the loi list and had no chance anyway )!
I am sure you will see a few or sale also, but that might be because it's too hardcore and the R IS still the best road car.
We could see a R price rise :-)
I have also had a GTS for a day, it's not all that imo, yes a nice car but again not as good as the R imo.
Not sure why people put the R down, just about every ower who posts still says it's one of the bests drives.
And it's still selling at £45k without issue to people who enjoy driving for fun.
Yes a few people are buying new this time who did not before, because of resale/values but that just means it gives people less well off a chance to buy a new car and NOT loose £15k the day you drive it out the OPC.
Lotus loose my new car sales because of that, Porsche have won a new car sale because of that, win win for Porsche imo.
I have been really happy with my OPC :-)
I think you will see more RS cars for sale than GT4's and they will be a 1/3 less RS made.
I don't think GT4's will get flipped much or make £50k but who knows. If they do it's only GT3 sales which will drive that.
Ie owner makes 100k on a GT3 thinks ok I don't mind selling up and paying £20k over on a GT4 , said person is still £80k up
And has a GT4 with better steering ;-p and ofcourse that manual box.....
I,ll be driving mine , tracking mine and keeping mine for a year or two.
I also know quite a few people who will be doing the same.
The RS is the car the 918 people are buying and yes a few will get flipped
2 top garages ( plus many more) will be getting 991 RS cars from 918 clients wanting to make £80k
I think the GT4 cars will end up in the hands of the right people and not rich people.
All this fueled by a few people who did not get one and shouted loudest (even though some were way down the loi list and had no chance anyway )!
I am sure you will see a few or sale also, but that might be because it's too hardcore and the R IS still the best road car.
We could see a R price rise :-)
I have also had a GTS for a day, it's not all that imo, yes a nice car but again not as good as the R imo.
Not sure why people put the R down, just about every ower who posts still says it's one of the bests drives.
And it's still selling at £45k without issue to people who enjoy driving for fun.
Yes a few people are buying new this time who did not before, because of resale/values but that just means it gives people less well off a chance to buy a new car and NOT loose £15k the day you drive it out the OPC.
Lotus loose my new car sales because of that, Porsche have won a new car sale because of that, win win for Porsche imo.
I have been really happy with my OPC :-)
I think you will see more RS cars for sale than GT4's and they will be a 1/3 less RS made.
I don't think GT4's will get flipped much or make £50k but who knows. If they do it's only GT3 sales which will drive that.
Ie owner makes 100k on a GT3 thinks ok I don't mind selling up and paying £20k over on a GT4 , said person is still £80k up
And has a GT4 with better steering ;-p and ofcourse that manual box.....
BS as usual
I was high on the list and didn't get one (2nd), no intention to flip and already have a 991 GT3
The point most are making there is no real logic to the allocations, some seem to have gone favourites of the OPC, some not.
I have yet to see anyone post a confirmed factory order, lets see how people react when VIP's take their place at Geneva next week
I know at least 3 x 918 owners they may pick one up once they see it in the flesh
I was high on the list and didn't get one (2nd), no intention to flip and already have a 991 GT3
The point most are making there is no real logic to the allocations, some seem to have gone favourites of the OPC, some not.
I have yet to see anyone post a confirmed factory order, lets see how people react when VIP's take their place at Geneva next week
I know at least 3 x 918 owners they may pick one up once they see it in the flesh
BS as usual
I was high on the list and didn't get one (2nd), no intention to flip and already have a 991 GT3
The point most are making there is no real logic to the allocations, some seem to have gone favourites of the OPC, some not.
I have yet to see anyone post a confirmed factory order, lets see how people react when VIP's take their place at Geneva next week
I know at least 3 x 918 owners they may pick one up once they see it in the flesh
I was high on the list and didn't get one (2nd), no intention to flip and already have a 991 GT3
The point most are making there is no real logic to the allocations, some seem to have gone favourites of the OPC, some not.
I have yet to see anyone post a confirmed factory order, lets see how people react when VIP's take their place at Geneva next week
I know at least 3 x 918 owners they may pick one up once they see it in the flesh
Without re reading all the thread it seems the majority of those getting the car did slap in early loi's and deposits ,don't think I've read of anyone on here jumping the queue so to speak.
As for why people want to buy one over say a 991gts ,I can answer that simply ,the cayman at last gets the engine it's chassis deserves,and it's about 40k cheaper to boot.
As for why people want to buy one over say a 991gts ,I can answer that simply ,the cayman at last gets the engine it's chassis deserves,and it's about 40k cheaper to boot.
Jeweller70 said:
BS as usual
I was high on the list and didn't get one (2nd), no intention to flip and already have a 991 GT3
The point most are making there is no real logic to the allocations, some seem to have gone favourites of the OPC, some not.
I have yet to see anyone post a confirmed factory order, lets see how people react when VIP's take their place at Geneva next week
I know at least 3 x 918 owners they may pick one up once they see it in the flesh
Why should all the same people get ALL the cars ? I was high on the list and didn't get one (2nd), no intention to flip and already have a 991 GT3
The point most are making there is no real logic to the allocations, some seem to have gone favourites of the OPC, some not.
I have yet to see anyone post a confirmed factory order, lets see how people react when VIP's take their place at Geneva next week
I know at least 3 x 918 owners they may pick one up once they see it in the flesh
You should be happy you got a GT3 not unhappy you did not get a GT4.
spread the GT love :-)
paralla said:
I've not been told that I'm not getting one yet so still in with a shot.
Now we know how exclusive it's going to be im thinking I might revise my spec and add a few things that I don't really care about like PDLS and Sport Chrono because I know some people really care about them. It feels like I have some sort of responsibility to get the spec right.
No one I know is considering sport chrono. No performance improvement and poor track day data logger. Skip that!Now we know how exclusive it's going to be im thinking I might revise my spec and add a few things that I don't really care about like PDLS and Sport Chrono because I know some people really care about them. It feels like I have some sort of responsibility to get the spec right.
franki68 said:
As for why people want to buy one over say a 991gts ,I can answer that simply ,the cayman at last gets the engine it's chassis deserves,and it's about 40k cheaper to boot.
Cars by AP and his team have a sporting character all of their own which contrasts sharply with the rest of the Porsche lineup. The GT4 is very close price wise to a base Carrera which some think might be an issue but I don't believe it is. The GT4 is a hard core sports car whereas the 911 Carrera is a sporting car; there's a big difference. They may be similar in terms of pricing but aimed at completely different markets. The GT4 will spank the 991 GTS in terms of sports car character and driver enjoyment and that's what it's all about ... character.Sierra Mike said:
Cars by AP and his team have a sporting character all of their own which contrasts sharply with the rest of the Porsche lineup. The GT4 is very close price wise to a base Carrera which some think might be an issue but I don't believe it is. The GT4 is a hard core sports car whereas the 911 Carrera is a sporting car; there's a big difference. They may be similar in terms of pricing but aimed at completely different markets. The GT4 will spank the 991 GTS in terms of character and driver enjoyment and that's what it's all about ... character.
Super 1st world problem. I can see scope for both in one household. No one can deny the residuals aren't an attraction. I'm not buying one to make £, I just can't afford & don't think a 65/70k gts is worth droping 20/30k over a few years . You'd struggle to get a basic carrera with a few essential options for under 80k.
So if u compare the gt4 with either of these options, never mind how superior it will be to drive ( all be it less of a day to day drive) it's a bargain. Well that's if you can ever call a car at 70k a bargain.
I've purchased numerous boxsters from my opc over the years, the 981s hadnt " grabbed " me enough to change from the 987s given their stronger price. There's bound to be quite a few customers in the same car & price bracket who've been on the ball with their orders & "deserve " to get one. Its a natural progression, most buyers tend to move up the range if they can.
So if u compare the gt4 with either of these options, never mind how superior it will be to drive ( all be it less of a day to day drive) it's a bargain. Well that's if you can ever call a car at 70k a bargain.
I've purchased numerous boxsters from my opc over the years, the 981s hadnt " grabbed " me enough to change from the 987s given their stronger price. There's bound to be quite a few customers in the same car & price bracket who've been on the ball with their orders & "deserve " to get one. Its a natural progression, most buyers tend to move up the range if they can.
Richie200 said:
The way I see it is people are probably 20% interested in the car and about 80% in it for the financial return/security. Lets face it, the Lotus Exige Cup is probably the better car for what the GT4 is designed for. If the Lotus was worth 150% of list after 2 years and the Porsche was worth 65% after 2 years, which do you think people would be hankering over. The sad reality is the car and it's technical prowess is just a secondary consideration for GT buyers today.
You might be right but I hope you're too cynical. For me it's about the quality of Porsche. I don't think I'm biased. I've always liked the pocket supercar styling of the Exige and the race car proportioned interior that's not all covered up with plastic. It makes even GT Porsches look like they need a serious paring back. I drove a race-prepped Elise on track in '04 and in terms of handling preferred its balance and lighter weight to the 996.1 GT3 I had at the time. I can't comment on recent models but I tested a new Elise 111S on some good mountain roads. The steering was lovely but the Toyota engine was rubbish. It was gutless below 6,000 and by that point it was making such a thrashing racket that I could hardly bear to continue on into its power band. The brake pedal felt like it did nothing for the first inch by which time it was too low to heel and toe, and the gear change was imprecise and stringy. The seats lacked back support and luggage space was tiny so it was inadequate as a tourer despite having a compliant road setup. You could see that the bodywork was fibreglass from the ripples. Apart from the steering and suspension the car felt cheap, unresolved and overpriced.Edited by Richie200 on Saturday 28th February 22:26
Porsches aren't faultless: some have rattles, the 996.1 GT3 had inadequate brake cooling, and the engine flaws in the 996 Carrera and 991 GT3 are notorious but whenever I get back in a Porsche after testing another car I sigh with relief. Everything just feels right and looks high quality. The seats are comfortable, there's plenty of headroom (in the water-cooled cars), all the controls are precise, perfectly located and matched in weight and feel (apart from EPS, which hopefully has been perfected in the GT4) and the engine gets smoother and sounds better the higher you rev it. The GT cars have all this and even more extraordinary body control and precision. I am buying a GT4 because I expect it to be a jewel of a car and a brilliant drive, unmatched at anywhere near the price. For me the main appeal of the high retained value is that because I couldn't drive it before ordering, I can't be sure that I won't rather sacrifice some of the GT4's advantages to have a Metzger engine, and if that proves to be the case I won't lose money when selling.
However it would seem a better option to make enough cars to allow you to drive before ordering. Perhaps financially the GT cars work best as a low volume operation but that begs the question why Porsche doesn't charge what the market will bear. Maybe the components in the GT4 mean that it should be more expensive to return a worthwhile profit but Porsche is afraid that owners of non GT 911s will not understand that and feel their cheaper 911s must be inferior. Porsche obviously makes a much bigger margin on 911s than Caymans/Boxsters so they don't want to upset the pecking order but they also don't want to build more GT4s than are necessary to raise the profile of the brand if they are not returning a decent profit.
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