Prospective 981 GT4 Owners Discussion Forum.
Discussion
turbofreeFLAT6 said:
PorscheGT4 said:
On track the PASM button did nothing I could feel lol.
I was told it's the same setup just reacts quicker with PASM on. so on track would feel the same.
On the road at low speeds the hard setting is jarring on sharp holes or ridges whereas the soft setting hardly ever is. But at speed I prefer the hard setting because it feels more lively. However yesterday I had the rear ARB set to stiff so will see whether the hard PASM setting is still necessary to spice things up.I was told it's the same setup just reacts quicker with PASM on. so on track would feel the same.
It has transformed my GTS.
Seeing as how the TPC guys already have a GT4 (see vid on previous pages) I imagine it won't be long before they offer one. Should make it an even better road and track car.
BACK TO BACK COMPARISON of GT4 and 997.1 GT3 RS; ARB setting.
A year ago I began a search for a 997.1 GT3 RS in pristine original condition. After getting close a couple of times I had still had not succeeded when the GT4 was announced and by then RS prices were skyrocketing so I ordered the GT4. When it arrived a few weeks ago I was disappointed that it's steering did not have the constant textural feedback or feeling of absolute mechanical precision that I remembered from my 996.1 GT3, sold nine years ago, nor the engine character in the low to midrange. When an orange RS that sounded like it matched my requirements was advertised recently I decided to check my memory and on Monday drove the GT4 on the mountain test route proposed by the very brave dealer and shortly afterwards the RS. I had negotiated a deal where if I liked the RS enough I would trade the GT4 plus a substantial sum.
Well, assuming the 6 and 7 GT3s are similar, my memory was wrong. In both feedback and precision the RS feels very similar to the GT4. The steering in the RS is a little lighter, which I prefer, but the difference is probably only proportional to the weight on their respective front axles. I could feel the limits of the RS more easily but think this was just because the limits of the RS on six year old Pirelli Corsa Systems were reached much more easily than those of the GT4 on new Dunlop Sport Maxxs. The fact that I could also feel the rear more clearly tends to confirm this.
What I enjoyed most in the RS was that its handling felt more throttle adjustable (and more controllable than I remember the 996 being) but again I think this was down to the grip of the tyres and also the suspension setup. Ride was similarly good in both.
My memory of characterful hard edged vibration at low revs was also exaggerated. Rather than being ever present throughout the low and mid-range as I recalled from my GT3, in the RS it only occurs under deceleration in the midrange. Perhaps the introduction of active engine mounts eliminated any of this characteristic that might have existed in the GT4. The RS does still have more low rev character reminiscent of old-school air-cooled warble but to my surprise (as with a 2.7 RS I drove recently) it is very soft in feel and volume. The GT4 might not have the warble at low revs but with the windows down and exhaust button pressed the burble and crackle provides at least equal entertainment.
I expected the RS to have a more thrilling top end but throughout the range both cars seemed evenly matched. The mid-range and top end of the RS has a more complex, varied and musical sound, while the GT4 is more visceral: even louder and harder edged. A draw I think.
The gearbox is a clear win to the GT4, which has a much shorter, more precise, less notchy action. It is similar to the difference between the RS’s box and the mid-70’s to late 80’s G50. The change from 2nd to 3rd in particular is much quicker and easier. Clutch weight in each car is equivalent but the GT4 is more linear in take-up and easier to judge though this could be because of less wear. The gearing in both seemed similar but I would prefer 2nd to be lower, 3rd closer, 4th and 5th lowered accordingly, and a bigger gap to an unchanged 6th. Dropping into first in hairpins may provide a valid use for the impressively instant auto throttle blip.
The GT4 has a firmer brake pedal, particularly at the top, giving its steel brakes more of the feel of a race setup than the as-new ceramics in the RS. Both have great feel.
Both cars look superb and I think — without having had a good look at an RS 4.0 — that the 997.1 RS is clearly the best looking GT3 RS and my favourite looking 911, new or old. I prefer the RS from the rear, the GT4 from the side and like them equally from the front. Inside I prefer the classic 911 styling of the main dash in the RS but the more streamlined centre console part of the dash in the GT4. I prefer the Alcantara and leather with yellow stitching of the buckets in the GT4 to the cloth in the RS, and rate the view from the driver’s seat of the GT4’s more curvaceous front wings.
The more upright A pillars, lower waistline and higher glass house of the RS make it feel more classic and easier to place on the road but in the GT4 you feel lower and more securely cocooned. I can get the wheel slightly closer in the GT4, which I prefer, but the difference is insignificant. The RS seats grip fractionally tighter in the upper back — perhaps 5mm — but the GT4’s offer a little more lateral support to the shoulders. They are equally very comfortable but the RS is a bit easier to get in and out of.
Overall I was surprised how similar the two cars are. For me the most significant driving difference was the throttle adjustability of the RS but on the way home we stopped at a Porsche dealership and had the rear ARB adjusted from medium to stiff. I barely had a chance to test it in the remainder of the trip but could feel that the slight stodge of understeer was gone, the steering felt slightly lighter as a result, and the tail was much more willing to engage. I expect the GT4 too will now be nicely throttle adjustable. If I find that I want more oversteer I will get the front bar set from medium to soft but I think I will prefer the greater traction that the current neutral setup offers.
If the RS was still at last years price, the same as the GT4 on road, I would probably find its classic status hard to resist but at less than half the average current price of a 997 RS the GT4 really is a bargain when it can match an all time great for driving pleasure and is more practical. The ARB adjustment is essential though.
A year ago I began a search for a 997.1 GT3 RS in pristine original condition. After getting close a couple of times I had still had not succeeded when the GT4 was announced and by then RS prices were skyrocketing so I ordered the GT4. When it arrived a few weeks ago I was disappointed that it's steering did not have the constant textural feedback or feeling of absolute mechanical precision that I remembered from my 996.1 GT3, sold nine years ago, nor the engine character in the low to midrange. When an orange RS that sounded like it matched my requirements was advertised recently I decided to check my memory and on Monday drove the GT4 on the mountain test route proposed by the very brave dealer and shortly afterwards the RS. I had negotiated a deal where if I liked the RS enough I would trade the GT4 plus a substantial sum.
Well, assuming the 6 and 7 GT3s are similar, my memory was wrong. In both feedback and precision the RS feels very similar to the GT4. The steering in the RS is a little lighter, which I prefer, but the difference is probably only proportional to the weight on their respective front axles. I could feel the limits of the RS more easily but think this was just because the limits of the RS on six year old Pirelli Corsa Systems were reached much more easily than those of the GT4 on new Dunlop Sport Maxxs. The fact that I could also feel the rear more clearly tends to confirm this.
What I enjoyed most in the RS was that its handling felt more throttle adjustable (and more controllable than I remember the 996 being) but again I think this was down to the grip of the tyres and also the suspension setup. Ride was similarly good in both.
My memory of characterful hard edged vibration at low revs was also exaggerated. Rather than being ever present throughout the low and mid-range as I recalled from my GT3, in the RS it only occurs under deceleration in the midrange. Perhaps the introduction of active engine mounts eliminated any of this characteristic that might have existed in the GT4. The RS does still have more low rev character reminiscent of old-school air-cooled warble but to my surprise (as with a 2.7 RS I drove recently) it is very soft in feel and volume. The GT4 might not have the warble at low revs but with the windows down and exhaust button pressed the burble and crackle provides at least equal entertainment.
I expected the RS to have a more thrilling top end but throughout the range both cars seemed evenly matched. The mid-range and top end of the RS has a more complex, varied and musical sound, while the GT4 is more visceral: even louder and harder edged. A draw I think.
The gearbox is a clear win to the GT4, which has a much shorter, more precise, less notchy action. It is similar to the difference between the RS’s box and the mid-70’s to late 80’s G50. The change from 2nd to 3rd in particular is much quicker and easier. Clutch weight in each car is equivalent but the GT4 is more linear in take-up and easier to judge though this could be because of less wear. The gearing in both seemed similar but I would prefer 2nd to be lower, 3rd closer, 4th and 5th lowered accordingly, and a bigger gap to an unchanged 6th. Dropping into first in hairpins may provide a valid use for the impressively instant auto throttle blip.
The GT4 has a firmer brake pedal, particularly at the top, giving its steel brakes more of the feel of a race setup than the as-new ceramics in the RS. Both have great feel.
Both cars look superb and I think — without having had a good look at an RS 4.0 — that the 997.1 RS is clearly the best looking GT3 RS and my favourite looking 911, new or old. I prefer the RS from the rear, the GT4 from the side and like them equally from the front. Inside I prefer the classic 911 styling of the main dash in the RS but the more streamlined centre console part of the dash in the GT4. I prefer the Alcantara and leather with yellow stitching of the buckets in the GT4 to the cloth in the RS, and rate the view from the driver’s seat of the GT4’s more curvaceous front wings.
The more upright A pillars, lower waistline and higher glass house of the RS make it feel more classic and easier to place on the road but in the GT4 you feel lower and more securely cocooned. I can get the wheel slightly closer in the GT4, which I prefer, but the difference is insignificant. The RS seats grip fractionally tighter in the upper back — perhaps 5mm — but the GT4’s offer a little more lateral support to the shoulders. They are equally very comfortable but the RS is a bit easier to get in and out of.
Overall I was surprised how similar the two cars are. For me the most significant driving difference was the throttle adjustability of the RS but on the way home we stopped at a Porsche dealership and had the rear ARB adjusted from medium to stiff. I barely had a chance to test it in the remainder of the trip but could feel that the slight stodge of understeer was gone, the steering felt slightly lighter as a result, and the tail was much more willing to engage. I expect the GT4 too will now be nicely throttle adjustable. If I find that I want more oversteer I will get the front bar set from medium to soft but I think I will prefer the greater traction that the current neutral setup offers.
If the RS was still at last years price, the same as the GT4 on road, I would probably find its classic status hard to resist but at less than half the average current price of a 997 RS the GT4 really is a bargain when it can match an all time great for driving pleasure and is more practical. The ARB adjustment is essential though.
Edited by turbofreeFLAT6 on Friday 14th August 22:23
turbofreeFLAT6 said:
BACK TO BACK COMPARISON of GT4 and 997.1 GT3 RS; ARB setting.
A year ago I began a search for a 997.1 GT3 RS in pristine original condition. After getting close a couple of times I had still had not succeeded when the GT4 was announced and by then RS prices were skyrocketing so I ordered the GT4. When it arrived a few weeks ago I was disappointed that it's steering did not have the constant textural feedback or feeling of absolute mechanical precision that I remembered from my 996.1 GT3, sold nine years ago, nor the engine character in the low to midrange. When an orange RS that sounded like it matched my requirements was advertised recently I decided to check my memory and on Monday drove the GT4 on the mountain test route proposed by the very brave dealer and shortly afterwards the RS. I had negotiated a deal where if I liked the RS enough I would trade the GT4 plus a substantial sum.
Well, assuming the 6 and 7 GT3s are similar, my memory was wrong. In both feedback and precision the RS feels very similar to the GT4. The steering in the RS is a little lighter, which I prefer, but the difference is probably only proportional to the weight on their respective front axles. I could feel the limits of the RS more easily but think this was just because the limits of the RS on six year old Pirelli Corsa Systems were reached much more easily than those of the GT4 on new Dunlop Sport Maxxs. The fact that I could also feel the rear more clearly tends to confirm this.
What I enjoyed most in the RS was that its handling felt more throttle adjustable (and more controllable than I remember the 996 being) but again I think this was down to the grip of the tyres and also the suspension setup. Ride was similarly good in both.
My memory of characterful hard edged vibration at low revs was also exaggerated. Rather than being ever present throughout the low and mid-range as I recalled from my GT3, in the RS it only occurs under deceleration in the midrange. Perhaps the introduction of active engine mounts eliminated any of this characteristic that might have existed in the GT4. The RS does still have more low rev character reminiscent of old-school air-cooled warble but to my surprise (as with a 2.7 RS I drove recently) it is very soft in feel and volume. The GT4 might not have the warble at low revs but with the windows down and exhaust button pressed the burble and crackle provides at least equal entertainment.
I expected the RS to have a more thrilling top end but throughout the range both cars seemed evenly matched. The mid-range and top end of the RS has a more complex, varied and musical sound, while the GT4 is more visceral: even louder and harder edged. A draw I think.
The gearbox is a clear win to the GT4, which has a much shorter, more precise, less notchy action. It is similar to the difference between the RS’s box and the mid-70’s to late 80’s G50. The change from 2nd to 3rd in particular is much quicker and easier. Clutch weight in each car is equivalent but the GT4 is more linear in take-up and easier to judge though this could be because of less wear. The gearing in both seemed similar but I would prefer 2nd to be lower, 3rd closer, 4th and 5th lowered accordingly, and a bigger gap to an unchanged 6th. Dropping into first in hairpins may provide a valid use for the impressively instant auto throttle blip.
The GT4 has a firmer brake pedal, particularly at the top, giving its steel brakes more of the feel of a race setup than the as-new ceramics in the RS. Both have great feel.
Both cars look superb and I think — without having had a good look at an RS 4.0 — that the 997.1 RS is clearly the best looking GT3 RS and my favourite looking 911, new or old. I prefer the RS from the rear, the GT4 from the side and like them equally from the front. Inside I prefer the classic 911 styling of the main dash in the RS but the more streamlined centre console part of the dash in the GT4. I prefer the Alcantara and leather with yellow stitching of the buckets in the GT4 to the cloth in the RS, and rate the view from the driver’s seat of the GT4’s more curvaceous front wings.
The more upright A pillars, lower waistline and higher glass house of the RS make it feel more classic and easier to place on the road but in the GT4 you feel lower and more securely cocooned. I can get the wheel slightly closer in the GT4, which I prefer, but the difference is insignificant. The RS seats grip fractionally tighter in the upper back — perhaps 5mm — but the GT4’s offer a little more lateral support to the shoulders. They are equally very comfortable but the RS is a bit easier to get in and out of.
Overall I was surprised how similar the two cars are. For me the most significant driving difference was the throttle adjustability of the RS but on the way home we stopped at a Porsche dealership and had the rear ARB adjusted from medium to stiff. I barely had a chance to test it in the remainder of the trip but could feel that the slight stodge of understeer was gone, the steering felt slightly lighter as a result, and the tail was much more willing to engage. I expect the GT4 too will now be nicely throttle adjustable. If I find that I want more oversteer I will get the front bar set from medium to soft but I think I will prefer the greater traction that the current neutral setup offers.
If the RS was still at last years price, the same as the GT4 on road, I would probably find its classic status hard to resist but at less than half the average current price of a 997 RS the GT4 really is a bargain when it can match an all time great for driving pleasure and is more practical. The ARB adjustment is essential though.
amazing write up many tks. Now let me out this it you - 997.1gt3 CS uber spec it GT4 with LWB what do you choose? A year ago I began a search for a 997.1 GT3 RS in pristine original condition. After getting close a couple of times I had still had not succeeded when the GT4 was announced and by then RS prices were skyrocketing so I ordered the GT4. When it arrived a few weeks ago I was disappointed that it's steering did not have the constant textural feedback or feeling of absolute mechanical precision that I remembered from my 996.1 GT3, sold nine years ago, nor the engine character in the low to midrange. When an orange RS that sounded like it matched my requirements was advertised recently I decided to check my memory and on Monday drove the GT4 on the mountain test route proposed by the very brave dealer and shortly afterwards the RS. I had negotiated a deal where if I liked the RS enough I would trade the GT4 plus a substantial sum.
Well, assuming the 6 and 7 GT3s are similar, my memory was wrong. In both feedback and precision the RS feels very similar to the GT4. The steering in the RS is a little lighter, which I prefer, but the difference is probably only proportional to the weight on their respective front axles. I could feel the limits of the RS more easily but think this was just because the limits of the RS on six year old Pirelli Corsa Systems were reached much more easily than those of the GT4 on new Dunlop Sport Maxxs. The fact that I could also feel the rear more clearly tends to confirm this.
What I enjoyed most in the RS was that its handling felt more throttle adjustable (and more controllable than I remember the 996 being) but again I think this was down to the grip of the tyres and also the suspension setup. Ride was similarly good in both.
My memory of characterful hard edged vibration at low revs was also exaggerated. Rather than being ever present throughout the low and mid-range as I recalled from my GT3, in the RS it only occurs under deceleration in the midrange. Perhaps the introduction of active engine mounts eliminated any of this characteristic that might have existed in the GT4. The RS does still have more low rev character reminiscent of old-school air-cooled warble but to my surprise (as with a 2.7 RS I drove recently) it is very soft in feel and volume. The GT4 might not have the warble at low revs but with the windows down and exhaust button pressed the burble and crackle provides at least equal entertainment.
I expected the RS to have a more thrilling top end but throughout the range both cars seemed evenly matched. The mid-range and top end of the RS has a more complex, varied and musical sound, while the GT4 is more visceral: even louder and harder edged. A draw I think.
The gearbox is a clear win to the GT4, which has a much shorter, more precise, less notchy action. It is similar to the difference between the RS’s box and the mid-70’s to late 80’s G50. The change from 2nd to 3rd in particular is much quicker and easier. Clutch weight in each car is equivalent but the GT4 is more linear in take-up and easier to judge though this could be because of less wear. The gearing in both seemed similar but I would prefer 2nd to be lower, 3rd closer, 4th and 5th lowered accordingly, and a bigger gap to an unchanged 6th. Dropping into first in hairpins may provide a valid use for the impressively instant auto throttle blip.
The GT4 has a firmer brake pedal, particularly at the top, giving its steel brakes more of the feel of a race setup than the as-new ceramics in the RS. Both have great feel.
Both cars look superb and I think — without having had a good look at an RS 4.0 — that the 997.1 RS is clearly the best looking GT3 RS and my favourite looking 911, new or old. I prefer the RS from the rear, the GT4 from the side and like them equally from the front. Inside I prefer the classic 911 styling of the main dash in the RS but the more streamlined centre console part of the dash in the GT4. I prefer the Alcantara and leather with yellow stitching of the buckets in the GT4 to the cloth in the RS, and rate the view from the driver’s seat of the GT4’s more curvaceous front wings.
The more upright A pillars, lower waistline and higher glass house of the RS make it feel more classic and easier to place on the road but in the GT4 you feel lower and more securely cocooned. I can get the wheel slightly closer in the GT4, which I prefer, but the difference is insignificant. The RS seats grip fractionally tighter in the upper back — perhaps 5mm — but the GT4’s offer a little more lateral support to the shoulders. They are equally very comfortable but the RS is a bit easier to get in and out of.
Overall I was surprised how similar the two cars are. For me the most significant driving difference was the throttle adjustability of the RS but on the way home we stopped at a Porsche dealership and had the rear ARB adjusted from medium to stiff. I barely had a chance to test it in the remainder of the trip but could feel that the slight stodge of understeer was gone, the steering felt slightly lighter as a result, and the tail was much more willing to engage. I expect the GT4 too will now be nicely throttle adjustable. If I find that I want more oversteer I will get the front bar set from medium to soft but I think I will prefer the greater traction that the current neutral setup offers.
If the RS was still at last years price, the same as the GT4 on road, I would probably find its classic status hard to resist but at less than half the average current price of a 997 RS the GT4 really is a bargain when it can match an all time great for driving pleasure and is more practical. The ARB adjustment is essential though.
Edited by turbofreeFLAT6 on Friday 14th August 22:23
Scooty100 said:
amazing write up many tks. Now let me out this it you - 997.1gt3 CS uber spec it GT4 with LWB what do you choose?
In driving pleasure they are so close I would need more time with the GT3 to split them and without more history to the GT4 model line it's impossible to predict which will perform better as an investment so for me it would get down to other factors:- The GT3 does not have the sexy wide hips, carbon wing or graphics of the RS so I would narrowly choose the GT4 on appearance;
- The GT4 has much more practical luggage space, lower fuel consumption, lower maintenance costs and a new car warranty.
I would choose the GT4. But if you have a CS that you know and love and it suits your use I can't see any reason to change.
When the GT4 was announced I asked EVO to do a comparison with a 997.1 GT3 given its similar performance and price. I hope they do it. Write to them.
turbofreeFLAT6 said:
In driving pleasure they are so close I would need more time with the GT3 to split them and without more history to the GT4 model line it's impossible to predict which will perform better as an investment so for me it would get down to other factors:
- The GT3 does not have the sexy wide hips, carbon wing or graphics of the RS so I would narrowly choose the GT4 on appearance;
- The GT4 has much more practical luggage space, lower fuel consumption, lower maintenance costs and a new car warranty.
I would choose the GT4. But if you have a CS that you know and love and it suits your use I can't see any reason to change.
When the GT4 was announced I asked EVO to do a comparison with a 997.1 GT3 given its similar performance and price. I hope they do it. Write to them.
Tks . Have two bids on the table for my gt3 so will consider both. Gt4 does mean ease of motoring with warranty plus gt3 now on 21k miles (7k In last year since I've owned the car) and I'm keen to try other cars. Have loi in fwiw at opc . - The GT3 does not have the sexy wide hips, carbon wing or graphics of the RS so I would narrowly choose the GT4 on appearance;
- The GT4 has much more practical luggage space, lower fuel consumption, lower maintenance costs and a new car warranty.
I would choose the GT4. But if you have a CS that you know and love and it suits your use I can't see any reason to change.
When the GT4 was announced I asked EVO to do a comparison with a 997.1 GT3 given its similar performance and price. I hope they do it. Write to them.
Just sometimes you don't wanna let a good one go as you Know but gt4 and gt3 too similar so in a way makes no sense .
Like you just wish I'd had some time in gt4 but sure I'm gonna love it ALL reviews are glowing .
Tks for write up and help
Drove the car this week it was excellent.
Nice info on the suspension here in this video.
http://youtu.be/5SamK54Igm0
Nice info on the suspension here in this video.
http://youtu.be/5SamK54Igm0
Scooty100 said:
Tks . Have two bids on the table for my gt3 so will consider both. Gt4 does mean ease of motoring with warranty plus gt3 now on 21k miles (7k In last year since I've owned the car) and I'm keen to try other cars. Have loi in fwiw at opc .
Just sometimes you don't wanna let a good one go as you Know but gt4 and gt3 too similar so in a way makes no sense .
Like you just wish I'd had some time in gt4 but sure I'm gonna love it ALL reviews are glowing .
Tks for write up and help
Hopefully you can test a GT4 before selling the 3. Just check the ARB settings and make allowances.Just sometimes you don't wanna let a good one go as you Know but gt4 and gt3 too similar so in a way makes no sense .
Like you just wish I'd had some time in gt4 but sure I'm gonna love it ALL reviews are glowing .
Tks for write up and help
Edited by turbofreeFLAT6 on Saturday 15th August 10:12
turbofreeFLAT6 said:
Hopefully you can test a GT4 before selling the 3. Just check the ARB settings and make allowances.
No 3 will have gone by then. Have decided it goes , too similar to gt4 and I wanna experience lots of other cars including gt4 RS (fingers crossed) and at some state 991 gt3.....Edited by turbofreeFLAT6 on Saturday 15th August 10:12
av185 said:
Scooty100 said:
av185 said:
Sorry...heavy night!
Delay on the p11s.
I get confused with this P11's the 918 seats ? Where did you hear this ? TksDelay on the p11s.
Delay posted on 981 Spyder thread.
AdamV12V said:
Im not disputing that there might be a delay on P11 on GT4 again, but don't assume just because there is a delay on the seat on the 981spyder that it means it applies to GT4 also. When the delay on P11 on GT4 was lifted a few weeks back I was told that GT3RS still had delays on P11, so...
Yup good point ratcatcher2 said:
Drove the car this week it was excellent.
Nice info on the suspension here in this video.
http://youtu.be/5SamK54Igm0
Thanks for posting this video ratcatcher2, very interesting stuff.Nice info on the suspension here in this video.
http://youtu.be/5SamK54Igm0
Although you have to pick them out from a lot of rubbish posted recently there has been the odd great post including this video and recent reviews from turbofreeFLAT6 and ravon. Keep the good stuff coming...
I'd be really interested to hear what some of the more mechanically minded amongst us make of the content in this video.
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