Are dealers manipulating the market..
Discussion
Seems some dealers are putting lots of adverts up for cars as sold at very high prices, when the advert was never live as for sale, and then have a similar car for sale at silly high prices, looking through the adverts in ph classifieds The Throttle Shop are doing a lot of this...
I know Haymarket get paid for ads but surely if it's blatant abuse it should be stopped.
I know Haymarket get paid for ads but surely if it's blatant abuse it should be stopped.
Doesn't really matter though does it. Saw those adverts and thought they must think we're flipping stupid. Then looked at the black 944 turbo with 97k miles and one owner (bet it has more) for £15,000 and thought I'd may be give £5k for it. Okay I'm being harsh if its a real minter may be £9k but whoever runs that shop is not very bright.
Same thing has happened to an extent with 993 turbos, Gen 1 & 2 GT3 , GT3 and GT3 RS and 964 turbos. They are selling though. All it takes is one sale to set the new offer price.
Best one is Hexagons G50 Carrera for £90k ! Lovely car but honestly I'd pay max £50k for it. Actually stet that last comment I wouldn't even pay £50k for it as its a bit too feminine looking for me. Interiors like a hookers boudoir and no sports seats but condition looks very good indeed - probably the best I've seen in a while
I'm honestly pleased for the dealers. They've had years of trying to make money in a very tough game. When you take VAT, car preperation, general overheads inc premises costs and staff wages its very very tough to make a decent profit. Good on them and I hope it lasts for as long as possible and they make hay. They're the ones with contacts and expertise to source good honest cars and if you don't want to pay for that just buy privately. Simples really.
Same thing has happened to an extent with 993 turbos, Gen 1 & 2 GT3 , GT3 and GT3 RS and 964 turbos. They are selling though. All it takes is one sale to set the new offer price.
Best one is Hexagons G50 Carrera for £90k ! Lovely car but honestly I'd pay max £50k for it. Actually stet that last comment I wouldn't even pay £50k for it as its a bit too feminine looking for me. Interiors like a hookers boudoir and no sports seats but condition looks very good indeed - probably the best I've seen in a while
I'm honestly pleased for the dealers. They've had years of trying to make money in a very tough game. When you take VAT, car preperation, general overheads inc premises costs and staff wages its very very tough to make a decent profit. Good on them and I hope it lasts for as long as possible and they make hay. They're the ones with contacts and expertise to source good honest cars and if you don't want to pay for that just buy privately. Simples really.
pete a said:
Oh I've got no issue with dealers making a profit at all, it's the fake sold adverts trying to suggest that cars are selling at a certain price to make the car they have for sale at silly money look reasonable that I take issue with.
I agree if they are fake. I agree too that they look fake. But honestly who cares we're not stupid are we? As i said they're wasting money as trying to sell a 100k mile 944 turbo for £15k is daft.IQ < 25 = I D I O T
mollytherocker said:
Its a free market and we live in a free country.
Anyone can advertise anything for any price.
Nobody has to buy it.
Agreed but that's not the point I'm making is it...Anyone can advertise anything for any price.
Nobody has to buy it.
SOLD 944 Turbo 123,00miles £14,995 we've deleted the details so people can't copy them......
Next advert same company
For sale 944 turbo 121,000 miles mint condition only £13,995......
pete a said:
Agreed but that's not the point I'm making is it...
SOLD 944 Turbo 123,00miles £14,995 we've deleted the details so people can't copy them......
Next advert same company
For sale 944 turbo 121,000 miles mint condition only £13,995......
Dont worry, I get the point. But its naive to think that any business out there is your friend.SOLD 944 Turbo 123,00miles £14,995 we've deleted the details so people can't copy them......
Next advert same company
For sale 944 turbo 121,000 miles mint condition only £13,995......
I am a cynical old bstd now, and I trust very few people. But, in many ways, its just a game.
Play it well.
mollytherocker said:
pete a said:
Agreed but that's not the point I'm making is it...
SOLD 944 Turbo 123,00miles £14,995 we've deleted the details so people can't copy them......
Next advert same company
For sale 944 turbo 121,000 miles mint condition only £13,995......
Dont worry, I get the point. But its naive to think that any business out there is your friend.SOLD 944 Turbo 123,00miles £14,995 we've deleted the details so people can't copy them......
Next advert same company
For sale 944 turbo 121,000 miles mint condition only £13,995......
I am a cynical old bstd now, and I trust very few people. But, in many ways, its just a game.
Play it well.
A few years ago a very well known Porsche Indy was trying to sell a pretty awful and standard 3.2 911 painted in Gulf colours for £50K, two years later and unsold it was a pound under 20K.
Someone who had worked their butt off could have been sucked into that deal, mainly because it was a well known Indy selling it. The truth was, they were taking the piss and awaiting a mug ...... or worse a hardworking one with a once in a lifetime enthusiast with finally the money.
Hard headed car enthusiasts on here will state any fella was a mug for not doing his homework. Personally I think it sums up that few car salesmen can be trusted, and a lot that have well known names are even worse. I'm hoping that quite a few on here would know who they are. Its almost criminal.
If the ads are fake its obviously reprehensible behaviour.
Generally speaking we live in an elected democracy with a capitalist free market. If I want to put my car worth SFA up for sale at £500,000 and there is someone stupid enough to buy it I'd sell it as long as the person wasn't vulnerable in any way. Who's to say I'm not the idiot and the same car in 20 years is worth £1m?
There are loads of Peter Morgan type inspection people and they all give yo a view on value too. Really chaps this isn't some trotskite communist big brother regime we live in although in some parts of the UK the attitude towards making money is that it should be banned and its somehow wrong.
Generally speaking we live in an elected democracy with a capitalist free market. If I want to put my car worth SFA up for sale at £500,000 and there is someone stupid enough to buy it I'd sell it as long as the person wasn't vulnerable in any way. Who's to say I'm not the idiot and the same car in 20 years is worth £1m?
There are loads of Peter Morgan type inspection people and they all give yo a view on value too. Really chaps this isn't some trotskite communist big brother regime we live in although in some parts of the UK the attitude towards making money is that it should be banned and its somehow wrong.
IMI A said:
If the ads are fake its obviously reprehensible behaviour.
Generally speaking we live in an elected democracy with a capitalist free market. If I want to put my car worth SFA up for sale at £500,000 and there is someone stupid enough to buy it I'd sell it as long as the person wasn't vulnerable in any way. Who's to say I'm not the idiot and the same car in 20 years is worth £1m?
There are loads of Peter Morgan type inspection people and they all give yo a view on value too. Really chaps this isn't some trotskite communist big brother regime we live in although in some parts of the UK the attitude towards making money is that it should be banned and its somehow wrong.
I make furniture for a living, occasionally the cost of the furniture would cost more than most of the 911s you see being for sale here on PH. The difference between my business and a car salesman? I actually make something, not just buy it in and sell it on. Generally speaking we live in an elected democracy with a capitalist free market. If I want to put my car worth SFA up for sale at £500,000 and there is someone stupid enough to buy it I'd sell it as long as the person wasn't vulnerable in any way. Who's to say I'm not the idiot and the same car in 20 years is worth £1m?
There are loads of Peter Morgan type inspection people and they all give yo a view on value too. Really chaps this isn't some trotskite communist big brother regime we live in although in some parts of the UK the attitude towards making money is that it should be banned and its somehow wrong.
The price is the same if you live in a 2 bedroom flat or a 30Mil Holland park mansion. Ie price is based not on how much I can fleece from a potential punter, because the punter has no idea what their furniture is going to cost until we work the price out.. We work on a strictly, this is the price (because we have costed it accurately) and we absolutely do not 'discount' as we don't ad excess amounts to the price to then discount, in the first place. We feel this a very honest way to work.
Shame car salesmen (AKA horse traders?) cant work so openly. But then again, whilst potential buyers ^^^ see nothing wrong in how they work, then of course it will always be the same.
Edited by Wozy68 on Friday 12th December 23:13
Wozy68 said:
That sounds fine Molly, but what about the poor fella who has worked his life, not looked into the market before he finally has the dosh ....... then gets rightly screwed. It makes my blood boil. Actually it makes my piss boil.
A few years ago a very well known Porsche Indy was trying to sell a pretty awful and standard 3.2 911 painted in Gulf colours for £50K, two years later and unsold it was a pound under 20K.
Someone who had worked their butt off could have been sucked into that deal, mainly because it was a well known Indy selling it. The truth was, they were taking the piss and awaiting a mug ...... or worse a hardworking one with a once in a lifetime enthusiast with finally the money.
Hard headed car enthusiasts on here will state any fella was a mug for not doing his homework. Personally I think it sums up that few car salesmen can be trusted, and a lot that have well known names are even worse. I'm hoping that quite a few on here would know who they are. Its almost criminal.
If you think car salesmen are criminals, let me introduce you to the world of banking and investments.A few years ago a very well known Porsche Indy was trying to sell a pretty awful and standard 3.2 911 painted in Gulf colours for £50K, two years later and unsold it was a pound under 20K.
Someone who had worked their butt off could have been sucked into that deal, mainly because it was a well known Indy selling it. The truth was, they were taking the piss and awaiting a mug ...... or worse a hardworking one with a once in a lifetime enthusiast with finally the money.
Hard headed car enthusiasts on here will state any fella was a mug for not doing his homework. Personally I think it sums up that few car salesmen can be trusted, and a lot that have well known names are even worse. I'm hoping that quite a few on here would know who they are. Its almost criminal.
Anuities, pensions, savings, ISAs etc etc. Here be the real monsters.
Welcome to the real world.
mollytherocker said:
If you think car salesmen are criminals, let me introduce you to the world of banking and investments.
Anuities, pensions, savings, ISAs etc etc. Here be the real monsters.
Welcome to the real world.
No doubt its cool to be on first names terms with them also Molly. Bankers etc etc are faceless, I'm not naïve. But I have come across some well known Indies (I do not mean to tar all car salesmen with the same brush, and I do rate a good few Porsche Indies) that blatantly will rip someone off, time after time. You are only defending them.Anuities, pensions, savings, ISAs etc etc. Here be the real monsters.
Welcome to the real world.
If you think that's cool then fair enough. Its a free or is that 'real' world.
Edited by Wozy68 on Friday 12th December 23:30
Wozy68 said:
No doubt its cool to be on first names terms with them also Molly. Bankers etc etc are faceless, I'm not naïve. But I have come across some well known Indies that blatantly will rip someone off. Time after time. You are only defending them.
If you think that's cool then fair enough. Its a free or is that 'real' world.
In no way am I defending them. Not at all.If you think that's cool then fair enough. Its a free or is that 'real' world.
I am just being realistic. You have to take responsibility for your own actions, expecting to trust others in any business transaction is pure naivity im afraid.
I am sorry if that sounds depressing, but its the truth.
Wozy68 said:
IMI A said:
If the ads are fake its obviously reprehensible behaviour.
whilst potential buyers ^^^ see nothing wrong in how they work, then of course it will always be the same. Edited by Wozy68 on Friday 12th December 23:13
I did not say this Wozy... but fine lets lynch and hang the scoundrels. Who do we start with?
Wozy68 said:
I make furniture for a living, occasionally the cost of the furniture would cost more than most of the 911s you see being for sale here on PH. The difference between my business and a car salesman? I actually make something, not just buy it in and sell it on.
The price is the same if you live in a 2 bedroom flat or a 30Mil Holland park mansion. Ie price is based not on how much I can fleece from a potential punter, because the punter has no idea what their furniture is going to cost until we work the price out.. We work on a strictly, this is the price (because we have costed it accurately) and we absolutely do not 'discount' as we don't ad excess amounts to the price to then discount, in the first place. We feel this a very honest way to work.
Shame car salesmen (AKA horse traders?) cant work so openly. But then again, whilst potential buyers ^^^ see nothing wrong in how they work, then of course it will always be the same.
Interesting point about the furniture pricing , about ten years ago we had a solid oak staircase fitted after which the boss decided we needed a couple of console tables in the same oak as the staircase.The price is the same if you live in a 2 bedroom flat or a 30Mil Holland park mansion. Ie price is based not on how much I can fleece from a potential punter, because the punter has no idea what their furniture is going to cost until we work the price out.. We work on a strictly, this is the price (because we have costed it accurately) and we absolutely do not 'discount' as we don't ad excess amounts to the price to then discount, in the first place. We feel this a very honest way to work.
Shame car salesmen (AKA horse traders?) cant work so openly. But then again, whilst potential buyers ^^^ see nothing wrong in how they work, then of course it will always be the same.
Edited by Wozy68 on Friday 12th December 23:13
We looked in stores and researched online but couldn't find anything at all suitable , a good mate of mine recommended a cabinet maker who came down and had a look at what we wanted , he did a couple of pencil sketch drawings , including matching the legs to the spindles and other features we wanted.
He rang back the next day with a price and I agreed instantly , I'd seen examples of his work and to be honest the price didn't really come into it , anyone who knows me would agree that I haggle down the price of everything I buy , but for some reason it didn't seem appropriate in this case.
About a month later he delivered the table , we've had another three made since , and I've forgotten how many pals have had something made by him since.
The guy was an old fashioned craftsman / wood engineer , call it what you like but he had something very important to me , pride in the job . I'm sure the money side of it came well down the list of his priorities.
Poor bloke had a heart attack a few years ago and now cannot work , another true craftsman lost to history that possibly won't be replaced .
Price manipulation - smacks of the 80's!! Remember 911 turbo's and other so called blue chip investment cars being advertised for crazy, above list prices. Would be marked up as SOLD moment ad came out, followed proceeding day by mirror car priced slightly above the previous sold advert..
Another likewise comparison between then and now.. Chap walks into showroom to place order for his dream car and is rather abruptly asked to 'increase the spec somewhat or kindly leave the showroom'
Another likewise comparison between then and now.. Chap walks into showroom to place order for his dream car and is rather abruptly asked to 'increase the spec somewhat or kindly leave the showroom'
Prices do look to be a bit strange. JZM seem to have taken a strange tack to stack up their stock with extremely expensive kit. I may be in a world of my own but some of those prices seem to be a little lottery winner. Maybe all their sales are through Dubai now. I thought the RS at 199K at Paragon was expensive but it looks quite reasonable!
This is why I changed stable for my runner. A 991 GT3 is a beautiful car and so is the 997 GT3 but I find it hard to think their prices will continue to move higher as better and newer versions come forward. I can see the value in the 996 GT3 mk1 due to rarity. Oh yeah and the Carrera 3.0 because I still own that one.
This is why I changed stable for my runner. A 991 GT3 is a beautiful car and so is the 997 GT3 but I find it hard to think their prices will continue to move higher as better and newer versions come forward. I can see the value in the 996 GT3 mk1 due to rarity. Oh yeah and the Carrera 3.0 because I still own that one.
Guys, anything is only worth what someone will pay for it.
If people are buying the cars you can't blame the dealer.
If you had whatever 911 for sale and someone offered substantially more than you thought you'd get for it,is anybody seriously going to say they wouldn't take it?? Common!
If people are buying the cars you can't blame the dealer.
If you had whatever 911 for sale and someone offered substantially more than you thought you'd get for it,is anybody seriously going to say they wouldn't take it?? Common!
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