£25k to spend - 996 or 997?
Discussion
fastgerman said:
Look closer and it doesn't come with 2 years approved warranty - noticeable by omission. Also, it's only possible until it's 10 years old (in March).
Looks lovely, crap spec, even crapper gearbox!
Apart from that...
Jim1556 said:
fastgerman said:
Look closer and it doesn't come with 2 years approved warranty - noticeable by omission. Also, it's only possible until it's 10 years old (in March).Looks lovely, crap spec, even crapper gearbox!
Apart from that...
The 997 Turbo tip is quicker in terms of acceleration than the manual (apparently)
fastgerman said:
Some people love a bit of sh17tronic :-)
The 997 Turbo tip is quicker in terms of acceleration than the manual (apparently)
Fair point, some people do indeed (wrongly) prefer a slushbox, It was more to highlight the poor spec and lack of warranty compared to several at 911Virgin, RSJ or even this at Paragon:The 997 Turbo tip is quicker in terms of acceleration than the manual (apparently)
http://www.paragongb.com/cars/porsche-carrera-2-s-...
Although I hate the wheels. But, not a bad car...
r4_rick said:
to avoid possible engine issues dont you have to go Gen 2 997, which means closer to £35k, which means 996 turbo ?
Yes approx <5% chance of your 997.1 needing work in your ownership. A 996T is almost guaranteed to cost more to keep on the road. Just look at Hartech, RPM etc for cost differences in servicing and maintenance plans.
You have 2 x turbos, inter coolers, radiators, 4wd system which are all costly on upkeep.
Mpg and insurance are all likely to be more on a turbo also.
I'm in my 4th year on a gen 1 C2S. Work to IMS and RMS but no engine rebuilds. It's a 2005 car, purchased by me as an approved used car. No record of engine rebuilds or replacements under warranty either.
The most expensive work under warranty has been gear box and suspension related.
Hartech are also bringing out a new product list for the 997. Lower cost prevention methods I'm told.
I think you're slightly missing the point in comparing upkeep costs of a Carrera and Turbo, the Turbo *may* cost more to maintain, but it's more car, with MUCH more performance.
Sure, the Gen2 997 is a great leap from a 996, but for £25k this is a pointless debate, 996 Turbo all the way, it's a no brainer.
With a little judicious shopping £25k will get you a good one.
Sure, the Gen2 997 is a great leap from a 996, but for £25k this is a pointless debate, 996 Turbo all the way, it's a no brainer.
With a little judicious shopping £25k will get you a good one.
Buy a good well looked after turbo in the first place and it won't cost a fortune to run. Tyres etc aren't too expensive, servicing is reasonable from Indies, yes Radiators are expensive, but relatively for what you driving, they aren't that eye watering. The 996 T is far superior to the bog standard 997 in all respects, maybe push your budget a bit and get a 30k turbo. Who cares about mpg and insurance, i pay £360 full comp on my 996 turbo
FeelingLucky said:
I think you're slightly missing the point in comparing upkeep costs of a Carrera and Turbo, the Turbo *may* cost more to maintain, but it's more car, with MUCH more performance.
Sure, the Gen2 997 is a great leap from a 996, but for £25k this is a pointless debate, 996 Turbo all the way, it's a no brainer.
With a little judicious shopping £25k will get you a good one.
Much more performance?Sure, the Gen2 997 is a great leap from a 996, but for £25k this is a pointless debate, 996 Turbo all the way, it's a no brainer.
With a little judicious shopping £25k will get you a good one.
http://nordschleifeautoblahg.blogspot.co.uk/p/nurb...
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Top_Gear_te...
Not that there is much difference in it by why is the 997 Carrera S lap time faster than the 996 turbo in the above?
fastgerman said:
A 996T is almost guaranteed to cost more to keep on the road.
You have 2 x turbos, inter coolers, radiators, 4wd system which are all costly on upkeep.
Mpg and insurance are all likely to be more on a turbo also.
There will be differences but they are not half as much as you are making them out to be.You have 2 x turbos, inter coolers, radiators, 4wd system which are all costly on upkeep.
Mpg and insurance are all likely to be more on a turbo also.
Turbo issues, yes, but infrequently.
Intercoolers? I don't see why they should not last almost indefinitely.
Radiators? Does not every Porsche from the 996 on have radiators? That's killed that right there, but yes the T, like the 4S, has an extra central one, which since it does not have a condenser attached to it is the one that lasts the longest out of the three. And rads don't really cost that much to replace on a relatively straightforward DIY basis, plus mesh will keep them sound for many years.
4WD? Never heard of any issues at all, certainly not anything that is likely to need looking at.
MPG? On a mostly motorway run at legal speeds I have achieved 29.9 mpg. If I get less (and I often do, a mixed run is more like 24.5, and it can certainly drop from that figure) it's because I am getting what I am paying for
And since you mentioned it, no one really does know the % despite your claimed <5% regarding IMS failure on the non T 996 and 997.1 (must add bore scoring issues to that) and how does a % even apply when the cars are still on the road - what period does the % cover? To date? A 5 year period? Certainly indefinitely can not be said, so the figure can only go upwards. Whatever the likelyhood over an average duration of ownership, it certainly does happen not all that infrequently and to well maintained vehicles, at a repair cost that any insurance company would consider a write off were the figures applied to accident damage, and it's something that will weigh heavily on values, more than enough to compensate for any extra running costs of going Turbo.
Case in point I have made a few times - I really did not specifically want a Turbo, thinking that it would be far more than I wished for, and initially looked at 997 4Ss but in the end opted for a 996 Turbo due to these well publicised issues. Unfounded fears? I honestly can't tell for sure, but no-one likes a gamble where a "win" is anything but.
fastgerman said:
Much more performance?
http://nordschleifeautoblahg.blogspot.co.uk/p/nurb...
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Top_Gear_te...
Not that there is much difference in it by why is the 997 Carrera S lap time faster than the 996 turbo in the above?
I love people's selective quotes, there's a GT3 997 even further below on that table. Are you going to say the Carerra is better still?http://nordschleifeautoblahg.blogspot.co.uk/p/nurb...
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Top_Gear_te...
Not that there is much difference in it by why is the 997 Carrera S lap time faster than the 996 turbo in the above?
Magic919 said:
The car you own is normally the 'best' isn't it?
Exactly :-)I chose a 997 C2S because I thought the following:
Proper 911 i.e. rwd, manual and normally aspirated engine
The interior is better
The exterior is better
The engine sounds better
It's a newer model
Hammond and May had one (the times that I liked Top Gear) and Clarkson even did a good review of it
Servicing, maintenance, running costs were considerably cheaper from Hartech, RPM and Porsche quoted figures not just on servicing costs but maintenance plans
Decent stereo and sat nav
I could buy from an OPC and have comfort in the history and maintenance of the car
For on the 996:
At the time I only had acceleration and top speed, which were bettered by AMG Mercedes of similar cost
Depreciation has been a recent argument, however I have not noticed much change in 997.1 Carrera S prices in the last couple of years
I believe the original poster has probably decided that we're all ridiculous and gone to buy an E46 M3 CSL :-)
Magic919 said:
Didn't May have a Gen 2?
Either way it's a 997 Carrera SHe commented that the Gen 2 engine is better, however that it had lost the 'fizz'
To the comment above about the 996T being more car - The 997 Carrera S is larger (however lighter) than the 996 turbo. The 996 turbo has holes in all the panels thus it is less car ;-).
The 997 in 2wd format has a larger boot and rear passenger space than the 996T also as this seemed to be a requirement for the original poster
That Paragon 7.1 pretty much like mine (which I dropped exactly 7 years ago) apart from the lack of PSE. I just calculated that if I had kept it until now (end of possible warranty), it would only have 45-50k miles on it and I would have saved C.£25k in buying/selling losses - bugger.
fastgerman said:
FeelingLucky said:
I think you're slightly missing the point in comparing upkeep costs of a Carrera and Turbo, the Turbo *may* cost more to maintain, but it's more car, with MUCH more performance.
Sure, the Gen2 997 is a great leap from a 996, but for £25k this is a pointless debate, 996 Turbo all the way, it's a no brainer.
With a little judicious shopping £25k will get you a good one.
Much more performance?Sure, the Gen2 997 is a great leap from a 996, but for £25k this is a pointless debate, 996 Turbo all the way, it's a no brainer.
With a little judicious shopping £25k will get you a good one.
http://nordschleifeautoblahg.blogspot.co.uk/p/nurb...
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Top_Gear_te...
Not that there is much difference in it by why is the 997 Carrera S lap time faster than the 996 turbo in the above?
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