How much faster than a Cayman?

[SkinnyPete]

With 320BHP I find my Cayman fast enough the majority of the time, yes the long gearing can dull the acceleration and no, it doesn’t suck the horizon in anything like a supercar but for the majority of the time it is enough.

Now I have been offered a 2011 C4S with PDK for a good price by an acquaintance, I'm not too interested because its 4 four wheel drive and PDK however it did get me wondering how much quicker it would be than a Cayman considering it is £20k more (said acquaintance has the speed warning set to 70mph so a comparison is impossible )

The only fault I can find with the Cayman is traction in the wet coming out of 1st gear corners although it’s far better than most cars. I suppose the C4S would alleviate this issue and combined with PDK it would be a real point and squirt weapon?

I also wonder how much quicker a manual C2S would be over a Cayman? The extra 65bhp in a car like this would be quite usable.

Watching youtube/top gear etc I’m always pleasantly surprised at how much faster Caymans and 911s are compared to just about anything. The traction and weight advantage can be phenomenal and can make up for over a hundred horse power.

It's one of the few cars I've driven that doesn't make me crave more performance, for an every day road car the dynamics are off the scale.

[WindyMiller67]

Hi Pete

I thought you would've had more replies from people with good experience of both. I drive a Targa 4S PDK daily but have only had a Cayman on loan for 2 days.

I would say that unless you need to scratch the 911 itch or you have need for an occasional 3 seater, stick with your Cayman! I really enjoyed my 2 days with the Cayman (it was a 14-plate with PDK). It just felt so nimble compared to mine. The turn in was brilliant and I found it launched up motorway slip roads just as well if not better than mine. If I wasn't such a 911 snob I'd have one tomorrow!

As for some of your other observations about AWD 911s, I would say that through fast, wet roundabouts (like the ones that break up a dual carriageway), the AWD comes into its own and you can feel the drive going through the front wheels, but for a slow speed town roundabout, or a turn into a right hand road I can light up my rear wheels and slide without the front really being of any help. And of course you can do a perfect standing start on a wet road without having to think about traction control. Otherwise, I'm not sure how useful the AWD is. I specifically wanted a Targa so I had to have AWD, otherwise I'd have RWD (had BMWs for 10 years before).

As for which is faster, what are the relative power to weight ratios? I would have thought they are similar if not in favour of the Cayman?

You don't say what age your Cayman is but the Gen 2 C4S has the PCM 3.0 which is good if you spend a lot of time in the car, and the 3.8 DFI engine is strong.

I hope this helps a bit!

Windy

[shoestring7]

SkinnyPete said:

With 320BHP I find my Cayman fast enough the majority of the time, yes the long gearing can dull the acceleration and no, it doesn’t suck the horizon in anything like a supercar but for the majority of the time it is enough.

Now I have been offered a 2011 C4S with PDK for a good price by an acquaintance, I'm not too interested because its 4 four wheel drive and PDK however it did get me wondering how much quicker it would be than a Cayman considering it is £20k more (said acquaintance has the speed warning set to 70mph so a comparison is impossible )

The only fault I can find with the Cayman is traction in the wet coming out of 1st gear corners although it’s far better than most cars. I suppose the C4S would alleviate this issue and combined with PDK it would be a real point and squirt weapon?

I also wonder how much quicker a manual C2S would be over a Cayman? The extra 65bhp in a car like this would be quite usable.

Watching youtube/top gear etc I’m always pleasantly surprised at how much faster Caymans and 911s are compared to just about anything. The traction and weight advantage can be phenomenal and can make up for over a hundred horse power.

It's one of the few cars I've driven that doesn't make me crave more performance, for an every day road car the dynamics are off the scale.

Try it first. When I had my Cayman I spent a long weekend with a 997C4S and it left me with no desire continue the relationship. It was faster (you notice the additional torque more) but the rest of it was disappointing.

SS7

[J-P]

I've driven a targa 4s, own a Cayman R and had a 911 GTS.

Personally, I wouldn't swap a Cayman for a C4S. Yes the C4S will be quicker in a straight line or a wet road but the Cayman is much better to drive. I drove my GTS back to back with the Cayman R and I didn't think there was much difference between them performance wise. The size of the CR means it was actually easier to drive quickly down local B roads and its a wonderfully precise car. Having said that GTS had more feel.

[GT4owner]

I loaned a GTS for a day, I find it very hard why you keep saying the GTS has more feel.

Your set up must be so off on your R imo.

[J-P]

GT4owner said:

I loaned a GTS for a day, I find it very hard why you keep saying the GTS has more feel.

Your set up must be so off on your R imo.

We're all different. It's one of the reasons you hate GT3s so much. I just like the way the GTS and GT3 drive. They're fun and you know precisely what's going on with the front end all the time. And I like the way I can tell exactly what's going to happen next. Don't get me wrong, the R is a great car, I really like it a lot and with a few mods I can see that it would be truly phenomenal but as std, I prefer both the GTS and the GT3 to the R.

[SkinnyPete]

Thanks for the feedback.

I was just curious over the performance difference rather than the idea of actually changing. As much as I like the 997 I don't think its worth the extra £20k at least from a casual observers perspective.

As it happens the owner of the C4S did have a Cayman for 2 years which he loved, but the 911 has been a big dissapointment for him.

Horses for courses I suppose.

[GT4owner]

J-P said:

We're all different. It's one of the reasons you hate GT3s so much. I just like the way the GTS and GT3 drive. They're fun and you know precisely what's going on with the front end all the time. And I like the way I can tell exactly what's going to happen next. Don't get me wrong, the R is a great car, I really like it a lot and with a few mods I can see that it would be truly phenomenal but as std, I prefer both the GTS and the GT3 to the R.

but you said the GTS has more feel, not what you liked best, and imo the R has more feel, matters not which I like or prefer.
Looking at what you want to do to your R you in the other thread are not after feel anyway !!

in fact if you think a GTS has more feel and your planned mods are what you list, I really have no idea what you are after and you should imo be buying a GTS !

[J-P]

GT4owner said:

J-P said:

We're all different. It's one of the reasons you hate GT3s so much. I just like the way the GTS and GT3 drive. They're fun and you know precisely what's going on with the front end all the time. And I like the way I can tell exactly what's going to happen next. Don't get me wrong, the R is a great car, I really like it a lot and with a few mods I can see that it would be truly phenomenal but as std, I prefer both the GTS and the GT3 to the R.

but you said the GTS has more feel, not what you liked best, and imo the R has more feel, matters not which I like or prefer.
Looking at what you want to do to your R you in the other thread are not after feel anyway !!

in fact if you think a GTS has more feel and your planned mods are what you list, I really have no idea what you are after and you should imo be buying a GTS !

Feel is subjective. You cannot objectively define feel, it's down to what you like about a car. The steering on the GTS was just delicious. Writhes around in your hands as you're approaching the limit, it just a very nice car. In fairness, I think the SVP car's steering was superior to that, so it's possible to get what I'm looking for from the R and is probably one of the reasons why you love yours so much!

[PaulD86]

The garage at the end of the garden contains my Cayman R and my house-mates C4S. I have driven his car a lot be it round Scotland or a couple of trips round Wales. Of the two cars the C4S is the faster, but in terms of fun I like both to be honest. The R is a bit lively in damp/wet/greasy conditions where as the 4S seems to get off wet roundabouts and out of wet corners like it's nearly dry. For me it took quite a while to get to grips with how to get the best out the 4S and having only had the Cayman R a few months (over winter) I am nowhere near getting the most of it, though I have driven a fair few Cayman S' so have a pretty good idea what the Cayman is about.

End of the day its a personal preference thing. I prefer the steering feel of the Cayman, but I also love how forgiving the 4S is when you decide to go a bit nuts on a Welsh B-road. Both great cars IMHO so drive them both and see what one works best for you.

[tracydeedance]

Ii have owned a C4 s and 2 996 GT3 s now i own CR and what a car the CR really is a much better drivers car than a 996 GT3 for the road.
As mentioned yes the 996 GT3s are faster in a straight line with a violent power delivery and C4 s will obviosly give more grip on slippy roads.

For me the CR is the porsche i have always been looking for in a road car glad I found the CR just wish i had tried it before could have saved a few quid.
In a nut shell its an awsome road car plenty of smiles per mile and practical .
Wont be selling mine.
I like my spec.
Man box
Buckets
Pse
Chrono
Spyder wheels
A/C
What more do you need for a fun road car thats usable.

Edited by tracydeedance on Tuesday 20th January 09:59

[Baz99]

Is this for real OP, you are asking if you should pay £20k for an upgrade and expect to be influenced by this thread? Or is it another 'my Cayman is as good as a 911' justification. All the usual 'I had one, drove one once and didn't like it' nonsense. If you want an agile fun two seat occasional sports car then fine, but you could do better with a Lotus. The Cayman is not a 911 so keep saving.

[tracydeedance]

Nah a C R is better than a 911 for the road trust me had 8 911s including 2 996 GT3 s & brand new 4 s
Dont need to save because i don't need to been there done that.

[Moosh]

SkinnyPete said:

The only fault I can find with the Cayman is traction in the wet coming out of 1st gear corners

Try the "1st gear corners" in 2nd gear. You will find any car much more compliant, unless you are talking about a standing start of course.

[Baz99]

tracydeedance said:

Nah a C R is better than a 911 for the road trust me had 8 911s including 2 996 GT3 s & brand new 4 s
Dont need to save because i don't need to been there done that.

Only 8 911's !!

[SkinnyPete]

Baz99 said:

Is this for real OP, you are asking if you should pay £20k for an upgrade and expect to be influenced by this thread? Or is it another 'my Cayman is as good as a 911' justification. All the usual 'I had one, drove one once and didn't like it' nonsense. If you want an agile fun two seat occasional sports car then fine, but you could do better with a Lotus. The Cayman is not a 911 so keep saving.

Did my post touch a nerve? A big fat insecurity nerve?

You read into my post what you wanted to read and completely missed my point.

Moosh said:

SkinnyPete said:

The only fault I can find with the Cayman is traction in the wet coming out of 1st gear corners

Try the "1st gear corners" in 2nd gear. You will find any car much more compliant, unless you are talking about a standing start of course.

I suppose 2nd is more compliant, but I find it too slow in those circumstance.

[T4NG0]

Had an 08 new Cayman S on test drive for 24hrs and 400 miles, when I had a 996. The weather was dire, wet and cold, but the Cayman was an easier car to drive fast in these conditions.

Fast forward a few years I had a 997 GT3 which was incredibly fast for the road. A few years later I considered a new shape a Cayman S, with PDK, PVT , dynamic engine mounts etc. On the road, on the twistes it felt as fast at the GT3. I'm sure on a track the GT3 would have been faster, but for real life driving on the road it's hard to beat a decent Cayman.

[cheddar]

Baz99 said:

Is this for real OP, you are asking if you should pay £20k for an upgrade and expect to be influenced by this thread? Or is it another 'my Cayman is as good as a 911' justification. All the usual 'I had one, drove one once and didn't like it' nonsense. If you want an agile fun two seat occasional sports car then fine, but you could do better with a Lotus. The Cayman is not a 911 so keep saving.

Unnecessary post.

The Cayman is indeed 'not a 911' - in many ways it's the better car.

Op - Porsche used to (and maybe still do) offer a lower gearing option on the GT3, is a change to a lower final drive possible on your Cayman? It might alleviate the overly lonnnnnggggg gearing that dulls acceleration.

[Mario149]

cheddar said:

Unnecessary post.

The Cayman is indeed 'not a 911' - in many ways it's the better car.

Op - Porsche used to (and maybe still do) offer a lower gearing option on the GT3, is a change to a lower final drive possible on your Cayman? It might alleviate the overly lonnnnnggggg gearing that dulls acceleration.

Indeed unnecessary.

You can put a 7% shorter cup final drive on a GT3 which is about £3k all inc labour from memory of what I was quoted. Long gearing on the GT3 for the road is pretty much my only criticism of it. More gear changes on the fab manual box and the feel of an equivalent of 30bhp+ increase when accelerating might just be worth the money if I'm feeling flush in the next year or so.

[Baz99]

SkinnyPete said:

Baz99 said:

Is this for real OP, you are asking if you should pay £20k for an upgrade and expect to be influenced by this thread? Or is it another 'my Cayman is as good as a 911' justification. All the usual 'I had one, drove one once and didn't like it' nonsense. If you want an agile fun two seat occasional sports car then fine, but you could do better with a Lotus. The Cayman is not a 911 so keep saving.

Did my post touch a nerve? A big fat insecurity nerve?

You read into my post what you wanted to read and completely missed my point.

Moosh said:

SkinnyPete said:

The only fault I can find with the Cayman is traction in the wet coming out of 1st gear corners

Try the "1st gear corners" in 2nd gear. You will find any car much more compliant, unless you are talking about a standing start of course.

I suppose 2nd is more compliant, but I find it too slow in those circumstance.

It seems to me that it's the Cayman owners who are insecure in that they take every opportunity to try and convince us all that they have the better car with all sorts of silly comparisons. They are of course seen as the poor mans Porsche. So OP what is you decision? Or is this another Cayman appreciation thread.