993 Prices tipped to rise again in 2015

[nsm3]

Cheeky

[Orangecurry]

Pickled Piper said:

It's all about what you consider essential, nice to do or frivolous.

An excellent 'rule of thumb'.... but as you've given no examples of 'required refurbishment' (which then doesn't fit into these three categories), we are none the wiser as to why having a 993 is eye-wateringly expensive?

[oldnbold]

It doesn't matters a jot what dealers are advertising cars for, I think the true way to determine values is by looking at the prices achieved at auction. Have a look at these from the Silverstone auction at the NEC show in November last year.

http://www.silverstoneauctions.com/1996-porsche-91...

http://www.silverstoneauctions.com/1996-porsche-91...

http://www.silverstoneauctions.com/1996-porsche-99...

http://www.silverstoneauctions.com/1998-porsche-91...

http://www.silverstoneauctions.com/porsche-911-993...

[jackal]

oldnbold said:

http://www.silverstoneauctions.com/porsche-911-993...

st ! better make that 1.4 mil

[993AL]

Wozy68 said:

Koln-RS said:

From what I can see, mileage has a major influence on values.

Enthusiasts may not care, they just want the best car they can use and enjoy. But 'collectors' will have an eye on future values, and rightly or wrongly, mileage is a key factor.

Its interesting about mileage. I spent years buying cars that were lower mileage, then when prices started to rise across the board I started to worry that the miles I were adding was depreciating the car and it was spoiling the driving experience for me.

So when I sold my last Porsche (968CS) which was low mileage, I intentionally looked out for a well documented, good spec and lower owner but a higher mileage 993 so that the days of odometer watching were over.

I've owned mine now 3 years and covered 18K miles. If she had done 85K miles when I bought her, she would have cost 30% more than she did, and now the mileage would be over the 100K mark, so from a collectors point she would be worth 30% less.

My 993 had more than 100K on the clock when I bought her, and she is worth 50% more than I paid for her 3 years ago. I've had a lot of interest to sell her (even though she's not for sale) and every enquiry was more interested in documented history than the mileage. ie Potential purchasers are looking for the same things I was when I was looking for a 993. Condition first, mileage is secondary.

So where does this leave prices? Boo152 passed away last month and his wife has put his Speed Yellow up for sale. The dealer has it up for 28K. This is a very well looked after, fully documented 993 Manual NB with Sports seats, however it has done 115K miles.

To me that is an utterly under valued 993. Ok not for the collector (the less of them the better) but still cheap for an enthusiast to purchase. This 993 and many more 993s are IMO well under priced compared to other 911s whatever the mileage, and other 'classic' cars in general.

Edited by Wozy68 on Sunday 1st February 12:22

Sorry to see another PH'r passing away. Looks like his car is now sold.

[FlybyWyre]

I shouldn't have wasted my cash on a house, but I had somewhere to live.
House cost more than the RS cars!
Damn.
I drive a Boxster

[oldnbold]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Whilst I don't entirely disagree with you, my point was that dealers and private sellers can put what ever speculative price they like in adverts, but in general we have no idea if those prices have been achieved.

With auction results we know what a car actually changed hands for.

Silverstone have another auction coming up soon, again with a couple 993's in it. It will be interesting to see what prices are achieved.

https://www.silverstoneauctions.com/race-retro--cl...

[highway]

I'll chime in on why 993's are "eye watering" to maintain. As far as 993 owners go there are two camps. Those who have mechanical skills who enjoy working on their cars. Then there are those who need to rely on the skills of others.

If you can (like OC) do a bit yourself, then clearly you aren't going to be absorbing the same level of financial pain as an owner who has no choice but to pay others for their skill and time. For everyone who can casually mention their weekend ISV takedown, 15 minute pulley belt change or ad hoc framsistat recondition there are 10 other guys whose skills end at adding fuel and oil.

I suspect a good few 993 owners came to it from a background of owning more recent metal. You can get sniffy about Boxsters but buying new/nearly new (for good 993 money) you don't need rocker covers, crankcase seals, clutches, cam covers etc. The cars aren't old enough to need it. In short old cars demand money. How much depends on your skills, resources and level of OCD

[Mario149]

highway said:

I'll chime in on why 993's are "eye watering" to maintain. As far as 993 owners go there are two camps. Those who have mechanical skills who enjoy working on their cars. Then there are those who need to rely on the skills of others.

If you can (like OC) do a bit yourself, then clearly you aren't going to be absorbing the same level of financial pain as an owner who has no choice but to pay others for their skill and time. For everyone who can casually mention their weekend ISV takedown, 15 minute pulley belt change or ad hoc framsistat recondition there are 10 other guys whose skills end at adding fuel and oil.

I suspect a good few 993 owners came to it from a background of owning more recent metal. You can get sniffy about Boxsters but buying new/nearly new (for good 993 money) you don't need rocker covers, crankcase seals, clutches, cam covers etc. The cars aren't old enough to need it. In short old cars demand money. How much depends on your skills, resources and level of OCD

I changed the airbox AND cleaned the gunk out of my idle control valve.....go me

[Orangecurry]

But the point is that servicing isn't expensive - it's an oil change or plug change or a few filters; all the other things that have been mentioned are to do with age/mileage and only happen/need doing ONCE every (say) 60k miles.

It makes me incandescent with rage when people say they are eye-watering to 'maintain', and actually what they mean is that they want a perfect car with every part replaced on a yearly-basis by somebody else... and good luck to them and their support of the economy, but please don't call it essential maintenance, because it is neither of those things.

[Orangecurry]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I do so I know where you are coming from, though I think the time of cheap E30/E36 engines or cheap original parts in good condition is long gone.

The things that 'go wrong' like suspension components still last for at least (say) 60k miles, so even if the parts are 10x more expensive on the 993, it's not an eye-watering car to run. The engines don't go pop.

[Orangecurry]

I don't disagree (except the brake discs - they ARE at least twice as massive 993 vs 325i), but I refer the Rt.Hon. gentleman to my previous point - it's not a cost that is incurred very often and therefore isn't eye-watering or indeed unreasonable over the lifespan of the car?

The e-w owners are the ones who replace (deep breath):

slightly pitted-headlights
slightly pitted indicator lenses
lights that are not QUITE as shiny as when they left the factory in 1996
the rear lights, so they match the front lights, i.e. new
the side indicator repeaters, to match the other new lights
new rear reflector - see above
wheelarch inner-linings - that are pitted/marked
water-marked calipers
front PU (it's a bit scraped underneath)
sunroof pop-up wind-deflector (is that a wear-mark caused by the mechanism?)
HU several times, speakers wires and amplifiers, either to go back to original or get the latest retro design
hang on - the paintwork doesn't look so good next to to all the new lights - respray...
....engine?
Fan shroud doesn't look new
fan blades
A/C pipe joints looking a bit discoloured
whoa look at my saggy boot pocket - new carpet required
is that dust on my fusebox?

....and so on

Edited by Orangecurry on Tuesday 3rd February 23:17

[thegreenhell]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Economies of scale? E46 production outnumbered 986 production roughly 25:1

[dvshannow]

Sure they will look at the price action of 30y bps and linkers. The rich need to park their money, it's getting harder, and soft investments will continue to gain

[Orangecurry]

That's the clearest statement I've ever heard from a 993 owner.

[schwarz993]

Orangecurry said:

I don't disagree (except the brake discs - they ARE at least twice as massive 993 vs 325i), but I refer the Rt.Hon. gentleman to my previous point - it's not a cost that is incurred very often and therefore isn't eye-watering or indeed unreasonable over the lifespan of the car?

The e-w owners are the ones who replace (deep breath):

slightly pitted-headlights
slightly pitted indicator lenses
lights that are not QUITE as shiny as when they left the factory in 1996
the rear lights, so they match the front lights, i.e. new
the side indicator repeaters, to match the other new lights
new rear reflector - see above
wheelarch inner-linings - that are pitted/marked
water-marked calipers
front PU (it's a bit scraped underneath)
sunroof pop-up wind-deflector (is that a wear-mark caused by the mechanism?)
HU several times, speakers wires and amplifiers, either to go back to original or get the latest retro design
hang on - the paintwork doesn't look so good next to to all the new lights - respray...
....engine?
Fan shroud doesn't look new
fan blades
A/C pipe joints looking a bit discoloured
whoa look at my saggy boot pocket - new carpet required
is that dust on my fusebox?

....and so on

Edited by Orangecurry on Tuesday 3rd February 23:17

Fully agree. They aren't too expensive to run. The extreme OCD'ers bring it on themselves.

The comparison to an E36 3-series is preposterous imo.

[david hockney]

schwarz993 said:

Fully agree. They aren't too expensive to run. The extreme OCD'ers bring it on themselves.

+1

I do not shy away from having any work done on my 993.
Whether I've just been lucky I don't know but it's proved to be a very reliable
and cheap car to maintain considering it's performance etc

[oldnbold]

schwarz993 said:

Fully agree. They aren't too expensive to run. The extreme OCD'ers bring it on themselves.

The comparison to an E36 3-series is preposterous imo.

+2

I've had mine for a couple of years now and apart from servicing, inc an a/c regas, and a set of tyres it's cost very little. In comparison my wifes last service on her SLK before we sold it cost nearly double what I paid for the 993 service.

I like to keep mine in tip top condition, so at some point I'll get some bits of paint done that I'm not fully happy with, but it still looks fantastic for a 20 year old car. And it's still on it's original suspension, which works fine, and holds the road amazingly, so I'm in no hurry to change it.

Im sure I could do some man maths and find reasons to spend several grand a year on it, but it just doesn't need it.

The E36 is just a mass produced eurobox, all be it a good one, so not comparable in any way. IMHO.

[993kimbo]

Wait until your steering rack goes and you get a bill for £2000. (Not eye-watering enough? ).

[oldnbold]

993kimbo said:

Wait until your steering rack goes and you get a bill for £2000. (Not eye-watering enough? ).

Haha. It was done just before I purchased the car. I have no doubt that sometime in the future I will get a chunky bill for something, but I'm prepared for that. If I wasn't I guess I would have bought a 20 year old BMW or Ford.