Chris Harris speaks the GT3 marketplace
Discussion
V8KSN said:
Praise indeed Speed read but didnt see a mention of the M engine. If no mention then a very big omission - IMHO a far bigger issue than the 'Stick'. Then there's Torque vectoring diffs and every driver aid know to man.. Another elephant in a very small room..
Forgotten or left out for another reason??
Forgotten or left out for another reason??
Steve Rance said:
Speed read but didnt see a mention of the M engine. If no mention then a very big omission - IMHO a far bigger issue than the 'Stick'. Then there's Torque vectoring diffs and every driver aid know to man.. Another elephant in a very small room..
Forgotten or left out for another reason??
Very good point about the Mezger Mr Rance! Forgotten or left out for another reason??
The problems with the 991 GT3 engine may be resolved and the engine (I hope) will never have an issue again but I do remember there were many questions raised over its engineering integrity and lets not forget, the reason Porsche got shot of the Mezger is because it cost too much to make.
Couple those concerns with the fact that Porsche themselves continue to use the Mezger in their Cup cars and its easy to understand why people want to stick with the stick!
Steve Rance said:
Speed read but didnt see a mention of the M engine. If no mention then a very big omission - IMHO a far bigger issue than the 'Stick'. Then there's Torque vectoring diffs and every driver aid know to man.. Another elephant in a very small room..
Forgotten or left out for another reason??
It's not just the engine though I would say but more a question of the feel of the car has fundamentally changed in the 991 generation. It has been mentioned by yourself and other people far more familiar with the Cup cars than me, the 996 gt3 feels fairly close to the 6 cup and the 7 gt3 road car also retained that link albeit to a lesser extent as the road/motorsport cars kind of went in different directions. The 991 gt3 for any number of reasons, no matter how capable it is (and that is not in question it seems) doesn't feel anything like the 991 cup to drive and therefore by extrapolation, not like any of the prior gt3s either. Forgotten or left out for another reason??
Perhaps the 991 RS will change this if indeed it forms the basis for the next motorsport car.
This whole transmission roulette seems like a perfectly orchestrated marketing strategy for me.
manual 997 GT3 RS owner sells his car in anticipation for the 991 GT3
manual 991 is not available so he uses his LOI to buy a 991 GT3 PDK because the manuals are not coming back, ever!
Porsche announces the 991 GT3 RS PDK so our buyer upgrades to that car because it's the last N/A 911 GT3!
Porsche announces the 991 GT3 RS manual so our buyer upgrades to that car because it's the very last manual N/A GT3!
Porsche announces the 991.2 GT3 RS 4.2 which is now REALLY the last manual N/A 911, we promise!
Throw in a manual Cayman GT4 (the last manual N/A flat six cayman, don't you know?!) in there for good measure. Until the N/A manual 981.2 GT4 is out, followed by a GT4 RS "sendoff special", etc...
And everybody is running around, arms flailing, saying that Porsche doesn't know what they are doing. Not at all...
Admittedly it took courage to release the GT3 as PDK-only because it could have flopped and ruined everything. It didn't and now it's easy sailing.
manual 997 GT3 RS owner sells his car in anticipation for the 991 GT3
manual 991 is not available so he uses his LOI to buy a 991 GT3 PDK because the manuals are not coming back, ever!
Porsche announces the 991 GT3 RS PDK so our buyer upgrades to that car because it's the last N/A 911 GT3!
Porsche announces the 991 GT3 RS manual so our buyer upgrades to that car because it's the very last manual N/A GT3!
Porsche announces the 991.2 GT3 RS 4.2 which is now REALLY the last manual N/A 911, we promise!
Throw in a manual Cayman GT4 (the last manual N/A flat six cayman, don't you know?!) in there for good measure. Until the N/A manual 981.2 GT4 is out, followed by a GT4 RS "sendoff special", etc...
And everybody is running around, arms flailing, saying that Porsche doesn't know what they are doing. Not at all...
Admittedly it took courage to release the GT3 as PDK-only because it could have flopped and ruined everything. It didn't and now it's easy sailing.
V8KSN said:
Very good point about the Mezger Mr Rance!
The problems with the 991 GT3 engine may be resolved and the engine (I hope) will never have an issue again but I do remember there were many questions raised over its engineering integrity and lets not forget, the reason Porsche got shot of the Mezger is because it cost too much to make.
Couple those concerns with the fact that Porsche themselves continue to use the Mezger in their Cup cars and its easy to understand why people want to stick with the stick!
Is the new engine not direct injected? I think I can hear people already taking about lack of power due to coking issues. The problems with the 991 GT3 engine may be resolved and the engine (I hope) will never have an issue again but I do remember there were many questions raised over its engineering integrity and lets not forget, the reason Porsche got shot of the Mezger is because it cost too much to make.
Couple those concerns with the fact that Porsche themselves continue to use the Mezger in their Cup cars and its easy to understand why people want to stick with the stick!
swimd said:
This whole transmission roulette seems like a perfectly orchestrated marketing strategy for me.
manual 997 GT3 RS owner sells his car in anticipation for the 991 GT3
manual 991 is not available so he uses his LOI to buy a 991 GT3 PDK because the manuals are not coming back, ever!
Porsche announces the 991 GT3 RS PDK so our buyer upgrades to that car because it's the last N/A 911 GT3!
Porsche announces the 991 GT3 RS manual so our buyer upgrades to that car because it's the very last manual N/A GT3!
Porsche announces the 991.2 GT3 RS 4.2 which is now REALLY the last manual N/A 911, we promise!
Throw in a manual Cayman GT4 (the last manual N/A flat six cayman, don't you know?!) in there for good measure. Until the N/A manual 981.2 GT4 is out, followed by a GT4 RS "sendoff special", etc...
And everybody is running around, arms flailing, saying that Porsche doesn't know what they are doing. Not at all...
Admittedly it took courage to release the GT3 as PDK-only because it could have flopped and ruined everything. It didn't and now it's easy sailing.
Porsche design, Porsche engineering, Porsche marketing. Top marks manual 997 GT3 RS owner sells his car in anticipation for the 991 GT3
manual 991 is not available so he uses his LOI to buy a 991 GT3 PDK because the manuals are not coming back, ever!
Porsche announces the 991 GT3 RS PDK so our buyer upgrades to that car because it's the last N/A 911 GT3!
Porsche announces the 991 GT3 RS manual so our buyer upgrades to that car because it's the very last manual N/A GT3!
Porsche announces the 991.2 GT3 RS 4.2 which is now REALLY the last manual N/A 911, we promise!
Throw in a manual Cayman GT4 (the last manual N/A flat six cayman, don't you know?!) in there for good measure. Until the N/A manual 981.2 GT4 is out, followed by a GT4 RS "sendoff special", etc...
And everybody is running around, arms flailing, saying that Porsche doesn't know what they are doing. Not at all...
Admittedly it took courage to release the GT3 as PDK-only because it could have flopped and ruined everything. It didn't and now it's easy sailing.
After reading the article, I can't help but feel it's basically Chris attempting to justify his mistake selling his GT3(s) when he did. He says he made a profit on the 4.0l and that's fine. Truth is, he is kicking himself for not taking in another 100k or whatever the gain would have been had he kept it till now. I would be, as would anyone else. Sour grapes I'm afraid.
Leaving out the obvious in the article: the 996 is the least loved in terms of looks, the headlights are an eye sore and the interior is bland, whilst this doesn't have any impact on the way it drives it does have an impact on its collectability and value to the market, at least for today. The Mezger engine being the last in the 997 also is a big deal, no mention at all in the article. Steering feel - quite an important factor to some, the fact that the 996 and 997 are less usable than the 991 GT3 also help the older cars maintain their status as hardcore enthusiast cars, something worth collecting, something more than a usable daily driver, something special. Not so apparent in the 991. Size of the cars is also important with the 991 feeling like a bigger car, puts a lot of 911 drivers off who prefer more compact dimensions.
Gearbox is part of the issue, but it is not THE issue. Offering a 991 with manual gearbox won't change much for me, and won't change the market for 996/997 GT3. Interest rates will have more of an impact, no mention of that either?
Poor article, get back to drifting cars and whooping about them on camera, what you do best. Leave the philosophy to others, or spend more than 5 minutes researching and writing an article!
Leaving out the obvious in the article: the 996 is the least loved in terms of looks, the headlights are an eye sore and the interior is bland, whilst this doesn't have any impact on the way it drives it does have an impact on its collectability and value to the market, at least for today. The Mezger engine being the last in the 997 also is a big deal, no mention at all in the article. Steering feel - quite an important factor to some, the fact that the 996 and 997 are less usable than the 991 GT3 also help the older cars maintain their status as hardcore enthusiast cars, something worth collecting, something more than a usable daily driver, something special. Not so apparent in the 991. Size of the cars is also important with the 991 feeling like a bigger car, puts a lot of 911 drivers off who prefer more compact dimensions.
Gearbox is part of the issue, but it is not THE issue. Offering a 991 with manual gearbox won't change much for me, and won't change the market for 996/997 GT3. Interest rates will have more of an impact, no mention of that either?
Poor article, get back to drifting cars and whooping about them on camera, what you do best. Leave the philosophy to others, or spend more than 5 minutes researching and writing an article!
Edited by S1MMA on Wednesday 28th January 00:35
S1MMA said:
After reading the article, I can't help but feel it's basically Chris attempting to justify his mistake selling his GT3(s) when he did. He says he made a profit on the 4.0l and that's fine. Truth is, he is kicking himself for not taking in another 100k or whatever the gain would have been had he kept it till now. I would be, as would anyone else. Sour grapes I'm afraid.
I'm not sure about that. After selling the 4.0 he bought the 512 TR, which has gone up quite a bit since he bought it. He also used to own one of the seven RHD 993 GT2 road cars, which he sold a few years ago for a tiny fraction of their current market value. If there's any car that hindsight says he should have kept it's that one.S1MMA said:
After reading the article, I can't help but feel it's basically Chris attempting to justify his mistake selling his GT3(s) when he did. He says he made a profit on the 4.0l and that's fine. Truth is, he is kicking himself for not taking in another 100k or whatever the gain would have been had he kept it till now. I would be, as would anyone else. Sour grapes I'm afraid.
Leaving out the obvious in the article: the 996 is the least loved in terms of looks, the headlights are an eye sore and the interior is bland, whilst this doesn't have any impact on the way it drives it does have an impact on its collectabity and value to the market, at least for today. The Mezger engine being the last in the 997 also is a big deal, no mention at all in the article. Steering feel - quite an important factor to some, the fact that the 996 and 997 are less usable than the 991 GT3 also help the older cars maintain their status as hardcore enthusiast cars, something worth collecting, something more than a usable daily driver, something special. Not so apparent in the 991. Size of the cars is also important with the 991 feeling like a bigger car, puts a lot of 911 drivers off who prefer more compact dimensions.
Gearbox is part of the issue, but it is not THE issue. Offering a 991 with manual gearbox won't change much for me, and won't change the market for 996/997 GT3. Interest rates will have more of an impact, no mention of that either?
Poor article, get back to drifting cars and whooping about them on camera, what you do best. Leave the philosophy to others, or spend more than 5 minutes researching and writing an article!
Pretty much what we've come to expect from Harris.Leaving out the obvious in the article: the 996 is the least loved in terms of looks, the headlights are an eye sore and the interior is bland, whilst this doesn't have any impact on the way it drives it does have an impact on its collectabity and value to the market, at least for today. The Mezger engine being the last in the 997 also is a big deal, no mention at all in the article. Steering feel - quite an important factor to some, the fact that the 996 and 997 are less usable than the 991 GT3 also help the older cars maintain their status as hardcore enthusiast cars, something worth collecting, something more than a usable daily driver, something special. Not so apparent in the 991. Size of the cars is also important with the 991 feeling like a bigger car, puts a lot of 911 drivers off who prefer more compact dimensions.
Gearbox is part of the issue, but it is not THE issue. Offering a 991 with manual gearbox won't change much for me, and won't change the market for 996/997 GT3. Interest rates will have more of an impact, no mention of that either?
Poor article, get back to drifting cars and whooping about them on camera, what you do best. Leave the philosophy to others, or spend more than 5 minutes researching and writing an article!
lemmingjames said:
Can imagine the 996.1 owners frothing and bubbling away after reading that 
Not really, Harris merely regurgitating his views and passing them off as fact. He has previous on the matter :http://www.pistonheads.com/features/default.asp?st...
It was noticeable that when it all got rather hot in the kitchen, he went mute ...... Funny that.
Back then he alluded to having "insider information" on the Mk1 996 GT3's foibles. Once again he alludes to it in this piece of sensationalist nonsense, yet strangely he's still not backed up his claims with any tangible proof. Here's hoping eh !
As usual, Harris comes across as a geeky enthusiast with barely a shred of any real mechanical knowledge. He would do well to read some of LJK Setrights stuff, he might learn a thing or two .......
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff