Where have all the 993 C2's gone
Discussion
Orangecurry said:
You could say that about any car, of any age.
Bananas.
Perhaps you need to concede that running a 20 year old Porsche sportscar is not something which is comparable to running a five year old 2.0 family car.Bananas.
The consensus on forums seems to be 993 engines are "bullet proof" Most specialists who work on these cars agree they 'all' leak some oil. Just a question of what degree.
Most cars, certainly younger ones DONT need:
Door strap replacement
Cam cover replacement
Rocker cover replacement
Clutch/flywheel replacement
Crankcase seal replacement (my personal favourite)
Rear wiper arm replacement ( due to inherent weak design)
New suspension/dampers/bushes/wishbones-joints
Some of these things are perhaps to be expected on older cars. I don't expect batteries, bulbs, relays and tyres to last in perpetuity. It does vex me when at nigh on every service, I'm informed of more work which 'needs' to be carried out.
I maintain, if you can or enjoy working on your car, this is all far easier and more tolerable than if you simply have to produce your debit card and pay up.
In my experience running a 993 is in no way comparable to running a conventional MODERN car. Both Boxsters I owned from new ,cost nothing more than regular servicing during my ownership.
They are lovely charismatic things to look at and listen to but those considering ownership should know what they are getting into and grasp their own limitations.
The fix for the rear wiper is cheap and easy.. Remove it. Replace with a bung and raineX your rear window to within an inch of its life. Sorted!
993's are old yes, but it's an old 911 and will always cost 911 money to look after. You can buy a Bentley CGT for sub £30k but it will still carry the service costs of a £100k car.
The only thing I've been told I 'need' to replace by my garage is a top mount, age related failure. And a rocker cover. I only needed one but I 'chose' to change them all and I chose to replace with the Ali ones and while the engine was out I chose to have an LSD, SMFW, RS Clutch fitted. Why? Because I know it's a keeper, I know how I want to drive it and because Porsche!
I'm now trying to do the man maths for a set of bbs lm's...
Surely this urge for owners to do all of this work to the highest standard is just evidence of our passion for the cars? I dont think about resale values or anything else.. I just want 'my perfect 993' and that might be different to everyone else's perfect 993 but that's the great thing about these. They are individual and still the same. It's like a grown up Beetle owners thing!
Oh.. And we're still miles better off than your average 1990's Ferrari owner. At least we can use our cars daily/weekly.
Don't lets get hung up on costs and getting back what you spent.. Life's too short and spring is nearly here. Get the oil changed and get out there!
993's are old yes, but it's an old 911 and will always cost 911 money to look after. You can buy a Bentley CGT for sub £30k but it will still carry the service costs of a £100k car.
The only thing I've been told I 'need' to replace by my garage is a top mount, age related failure. And a rocker cover. I only needed one but I 'chose' to change them all and I chose to replace with the Ali ones and while the engine was out I chose to have an LSD, SMFW, RS Clutch fitted. Why? Because I know it's a keeper, I know how I want to drive it and because Porsche!
I'm now trying to do the man maths for a set of bbs lm's...
Surely this urge for owners to do all of this work to the highest standard is just evidence of our passion for the cars? I dont think about resale values or anything else.. I just want 'my perfect 993' and that might be different to everyone else's perfect 993 but that's the great thing about these. They are individual and still the same. It's like a grown up Beetle owners thing!
Oh.. And we're still miles better off than your average 1990's Ferrari owner. At least we can use our cars daily/weekly.
Don't lets get hung up on costs and getting back what you spent.. Life's too short and spring is nearly here. Get the oil changed and get out there!
highway said:
Most cars, certainly younger ones DONT need:
Door strap replacement
Cam cover replacement
Rocker cover replacement
Clutch/flywheel replacement
Crankcase seal replacement (my personal favourite)
Rear wiper arm replacement ( due to inherent weak design)
New suspension/dampers/bushes/wishbones-joints
As I've said, about one million times, these are items (or very similar) that every car requires, and at (say) 60-80k intervals.Door strap replacement
Cam cover replacement
Rocker cover replacement
Clutch/flywheel replacement
Crankcase seal replacement (my personal favourite)
Rear wiper arm replacement ( due to inherent weak design)
New suspension/dampers/bushes/wishbones-joints
What I have yet to see is why a 993 is more expensive to maintain over any other car.
Sure if you keep a car 'perfect', any car, of any age, it will cost you more money.
So, for instance, if you get the front painted for stone-chips, that's your choice, but it would cost the same on a Vauxhall, and is not essential nor maintenance.
Nurburgsingh said:
Surely this urge for owners to do all of this work to the highest standard is just evidence of our passion for the cars? I dont think about resale values or anything else.. I just want 'my perfect 993' and that might be different to everyone else's perfect 993 but that's the great thing about these. They are individual and still the same. It's like a grown up Beetle owners thing!
Absolutely 100% - but it is NOT essential maintenance - it's a choice.Nurburgsingh said:
Don't lets get hung up on costs and getting back what you spent.. Life's too short and spring is nearly here. Get the oil changed and get out there!
Edited by Orangecurry on Friday 27th February 10:07
Surely one of the things that does grate is what many of us call 'the Porsche tax', top mounts being a good example apparently, £150 for a Porsche, a tenth of that for other cars. But then you need to walk into ownership with your eyes fully open! They're not the only ones doing it, a merc O ring for the distributor cap is £23 at a main dealer!
highway said:
A gen 2 911 can be had at 993 money. You are looking at routine maintenance only. This is my 993 conundrum. I very much doubt a gen 2, even at 60k, is costing the same to maintain as a similar mileage 993
Fixed that for you.If I may make so bold, the only reason you have not made the change above, is that car 'a' is appreciating and car 'b' is depreciating.
Why not go to a dealer, 'persuade' him to swop the cars, and detail your 997? maintenance costs over the next five years (or 60k more miles).
That'll show me.
Edited by Orangecurry on Friday 27th February 14:29
highway said:
A gen 2 911 can be had at 993 money. You are looking at routine maintenance only. This is the 993 conundrum. I very much doubt a gen 2, even at 60k, is costing the same to maintain as a similar mileage 993
If you find a 100k mile 997.2 I reckon the costs won't be far off... My cousin has a 997.2 - he's spent more on his over the last 2 years than I have on mine.
997 is more complex so he can't do anything himself, and 997 buyers are less forgiving of a specialist service stamp so he pays a lot more than I do for labour.
He's got bigger tyres - cost more. Insurance - cost more (same postcode/age/insurer as me)
The other thing I don't like about 996/7's is the LCD dash - it looks so dated now the funky 991/Cayman etc dash is out. The aircooled dash, whilst not the most ergonomic is at least timeless. It's functional because that's what it needs and nothing more.
Some 997's are still under warranty... No such worries with a 993. Simply fit the best of whatever component you need safe in the knowledge that you won't get bent over because your wiper rubber isn't N rated.
997 is also a LOT bigger than a 993 which means B roads aren't as much fun.
All imho of course.
Ofcourse you could all sell your 993,s and buy an 8 year old Discovery like my neighbour.Built like tanks they are,proper land rover quality! Then it wasn,t starting very well so it went into dealer. It just needs new glow plugs,not a big job. Only thing is that they were seized solid and 5 out of the 6 broke off while technician was trying to remove. So what do we do now? Yes we need to take the cylinder heads off to drill out the glow plugs. Ah that means we have to lift the bodyshell off the chassis to remove cylinder heads.
Over 50 hours labour at £90 an hour plus the machine shop bill to drill out the plugs! It makes running a 993 seem cheap as chips! I mean really!!!! Over £5000 to change bloody glow plugs!!!
Over 50 hours labour at £90 an hour plus the machine shop bill to drill out the plugs! It makes running a 993 seem cheap as chips! I mean really!!!! Over £5000 to change bloody glow plugs!!!
[quote=Orangecurry]
Fixed that for you.
If I may make so bold, the only reason you have not made the change above, is that car 'a' is appreciating and car 'b' is depreciating.
Why not go to a dealer, 'persuade' him to swop the cars, and detail your 997? maintenance costs over the next five years (or 60k more miles).
Fixed that for you.
If I may make so bold, the only reason you have not made the change above, is that car 'a' is appreciating and car 'b' is depreciating.
Why not go to a dealer, 'persuade' him to swop the cars, and detail your 997? maintenance costs over the next five years (or 60k more miles).
Edited by John Henry on Friday 27th February 18:48
Not expensive to run... I had mine 7 years, done everything that needs doing to it, wheel refurb, clutch, bit of paint here and there door straps, regular service etc etc and still costs same/less to run that other cars in the Mamba fleet (Range Rover, Smax) and actually thats not even taking into acct the appreciating vs depreciating debate.
I remain tempted by a gen 2. Buying one would mean letting go of my 993 which I'm not yet ready to do. I know I couldn't buy a replacement with similar miles, spec and condition for sub £40k. You won't convince me that a 993 is cheap to run. Stating running costs are comparable to other cars at similar mileage is IIMHO bananas.
highway said:
A gen 2 911 can be had at 993 money. You are looking at routine maintenance only. This is the 993 conundrum. I very much doubt a gen 2, even at 60k, is costing the same to maintain as a similar mileage 993
There is no conundrum. None.They are 2 entirely different cars! Whilst its fun to compare, its largely irrelavant!
highway said:
They are the same car made by the same marque. Seperated by 20 odd years of evolution. Available at the same money. Valid comparison.
I suppose that is a logical view, but I just dont see it that way. They are just so different.I see the 2 cars operating in 2 very different markets.
mollytherocker said:
highway said:
They are the same car made by the same marque. Seperated by 20 odd years of evolution. Available at the same money. Valid comparison.
I suppose that is a logical view, but I just dont see it that way. They are just so different.I see the 2 cars operating in 2 very different markets.
At least one major difference between the two models is that should you have a walk around the smarter areas of London and you'll see loads of 997's and not look twice at them-
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