Where have all the 993 C2's gone

[mollytherocker]

stichill99 said:

Are any of the above Aventura? I agree the last 3 look mighty fine!

The last one.

[g7jhp]

erics said:

My situation is not overly different to yours:

I have an ocean blue 83k miles 993 c2s manual where litteraly everything has been sorted: new clutch, brakes, suspension, varioram, exhaust, windscreen, bumper brackets, windscreen, windscreen surrounds treated, every single minor leaks, airco working (!). Cosmetically i have returned the sport seats to a correct factory matt finish. Wheels and paint have been detailed and flawless. I would not part with it for less than £60k but just like you i wonder if it cover all the things i have had done. The last jzm bill was £7k last month!

Sounds great erics, any pics (your cars are always in great condition)?

I think this is the same with most aircooled Porsche. People often see them as 'cheap' to run, but the amount you spend keeping them perfect, if you use it soon adds up to a big spend (often averaging £2-3k or more).

The appreciation in value is nice, but often doesn't cover outlay over a few years, although it makes running costs easier to justify.

Owners are often reluctant to part with them due to the effort that has been put in to keep them in top shape.

[ian_uk]

Regarding UK numbers

Carrera Pre-Varioram : 578 Manual, 199 Tiptronic

Carrera Varioram : 279 Manual, 73 Tiptronic

Ian.

[Orangecurry]

g7jhp said:

I think this is the same with most aircooled Porsche. People often see them as 'cheap' to run, but the amount you spend keeping them perfect, if you use it soon adds up to a big spend (often averaging £2-3k or more).

You could say that about any car, of any age.

Bananas.

[avaF1]

More info needed on 7k bills please

mollytherocker said:

stichill99 said:

Are any of the above Aventura? I agree the last 3 look mighty fine!

The last one.

Ah maybe that's what stichill99 was referring to as 'skitters'

[jackal]

stuttgartmetal said:

There aren't any for sale on e bay
Cept a sh t GT2 bolt up on a write off
LOL

Feel free to link.

All the best ones ave bin made into clubsports innit Geeeza

[acme]

ian_uk said:

Regarding UK numbers

Carrera Pre-Varioram : 578 Manual, 199 Tiptronic

Carrera Varioram : 279 Manual, 73 Tiptronic

Ian.

I seem to recall seeing figures of 212 manual coupe (NB?) in 1996. Perhaps as much as half lost through export/accident. Proves why with AC they're so hard to get hold of.

[g7jhp]

Orangecurry said:

You could say that about any car, of any age.

Bananas.

Fair point. My point is that owners know the true cost of running an aircooled Porsche (which is expensive).

Some owners are lucky to experience low ownership costs because they've bought a car which has been well cared for/had it done already and don't have to spend much over a couple of years (and may change car) but those keeping it for longer term tend to know the sums involved.

The investment is a myth unless you're fortunate to buy it at the right time when prices are low. They're certainly offer potentially lower long term running costs due to no depreciation/appreciation for an enthusiast.

[Orangecurry]

Disagree.

Porsche made the 993 very 'low maintenance' with various upgrades - hydraulic tappets for instance.

Sure these need replacing, but again they fall into the every-60k-miles bracket, not on time.

Suspension refresh, windscreen surrounds, chassis legs, cam-cover seals, evaporator are all 'once-only' or 'once-every ten years' items.

What else is it that makes these cars expensive to run?

Orangecurry on another thread said said:

It makes me incandescent with rage when people say they are eye-watering to 'maintain', and actually what they mean is that they want a perfect car with every part replaced on a yearly-basis by somebody else... and good luck to them and their support of the economy, but please don't call it essential maintenance, because it is neither of those things.

You are not allowed anything on this list:

slightly pitted-headlights
slightly pitted indicator lenses
lights that are not QUITE as shiny as when they left the factory in 1996
the rear lights, so they match the front lights, i.e. new
the side indicator repeaters, to match the other new lights
new rear reflector - see above
wheelarch inner-linings - that are pitted/marked
water-marked calipers
front PU (it's a bit scraped underneath)
sunroof pop-up wind-deflector (is that a wear-mark caused by the mechanism?)
HU several times, speakers wires and amplifiers, either to go back to original or get the latest retro design
hang on - the paintwork doesn't look so good next to to all the new lights - respray...
....engine?
Fan shroud doesn't look new
fan blades
A/C pipe joints looking a bit discoloured
whoa look at my saggy boot pocket - new carpet required
is that dust on my fusebox?

....and so on

Edited by Orangecurry on Thursday 26th February 11:28

[mollytherocker]

Orangecurry said:

You are not allowed anything on this list:

slightly pitted-headlights
slightly pitted indicator lenses
lights that are not QUITE as shiny as when they left the factory in 1996
the rear lights, so they match the front lights, i.e. new
the side indicator repeaters, to match the other new lights
new rear reflector - see above
wheelarch inner-linings - that are pitted/marked
water-marked calipers
front PU (it's a bit scraped underneath)
sunroof pop-up wind-deflector (is that a wear-mark caused by the mechanism?)
HU several times, speakers wires and amplifiers, either to go back to original or get the latest retro design
hang on - the paintwork doesn't look so good next to to all the new lights - respray...
....engine?
Fan shroud doesn't look new
fan blades
A/C pipe joints looking a bit discoloured
whoa look at my saggy boot pocket - new carpet required
is that dust on my fusebox?

....and so on

Edited by Orangecurry on Thursday 26th February 11:28

This is the crux of the issue of maintenance cost. Many air cooled owners spend thousands on the type of stuff you list there, which on the face of it is utter madness. Its almost a fetish!

This doesnt make them expensive to run, you could spend the same on a 4k Boxster if you wished.

These types of spend fall into different categories;

Essential Maintenence
Repairs
Improvements / upgrades
Renovation
Extreme renovation/ concours
Crazy stuff!

Lots of the spend is not entirely necessary!

[ian_uk]

acme said:

ian_uk said:

Regarding UK numbers

Carrera Pre-Varioram : 578 Manual, 199 Tiptronic

Carrera Varioram : 279 Manual, 73 Tiptronic

Ian.

I seem to recall seeing figures of 212 manual coupe (NB?) in 1996. Perhaps as much as half lost through export/accident. Proves why with AC they're so hard to get hold of.

Yes the Varioram numbers for the manual were 212 in 1996, 47 in 1997 and 20 in 1998.

Ian.

[acme]

ian_uk said:

acme said:

ian_uk said:

Regarding UK numbers

Carrera Pre-Varioram : 578 Manual, 199 Tiptronic

Carrera Varioram : 279 Manual, 73 Tiptronic

Ian.

I seem to recall seeing figures of 212 manual coupe (NB?) in 1996. Perhaps as much as half lost through export/accident. Proves why with AC they're so hard to get hold of.

Yes the Varioram numbers for the manual were 212 in 1996, 47 in 1997 and 20 in 1998.

Ian.

That's very sad I recall that off the top of my head! See what hanging around on 911uk does to you!

[LeoSayer]

Not sure of the exact numbers but air con was something like a £2,200 option and at a guess I'd say around 60% of cars have it fitted.

At something like £2,500 retrofitted it should be a deal breaker.

[ian_uk]

mollytherocker said:

This is the crux of the issue of maintenance cost. Many air cooled owners spend thousands on the type of stuff you list there, which on the face of it is utter madness. Its almost a fetish!

This doesnt make them expensive to run, you could spend the same on a 4k Boxster if you wished.

These types of spend fall into different categories;

Essential Maintenence
Repairs
Improvements / upgrades
Renovation
Extreme renovation/ concours
Crazy stuff!

Lots of the spend is not entirely necessary!

In ten years of ownership I have pretty much stuck to one and two on that list and the costs have been reasonable. Routine servicing, pads and disks as required, geo done as required at local indi, replaced a split rear spoiler wall, some dampers needed replacing, a sticking solenoid in the driver's door central locking. The only cosmetic was having the bonnet blown over due to stone chips and that was not 100% necessary.

In addition to the above I would expect at some time to need to replace some suspension arms due to worn bushes, a leaking steering rack, maybe a door strap, maybe some work around the front and rear windows and I am sure some odds and sods that don't immediately come to mind as 993 weak points. But they are a once in 80K miles or 15 year type of expense.

Costs on my 964 were much the same except the servicing was more expensive as I liked to have the tappets adjusted every 12K miles as per Porsche's recommendation.

Cars like these are not investments but neither need they be ruinously expensive. I work on somewhere between 1K - 2K per year to keep it running in good condition.

[blindspot]

LeoSayer said:

Not sure of the exact numbers but air con was something like a £2,200 option and at a guess I'd say around 60% of cars have it fitted.

At something like £2,500 retrofitted it should be a deal breaker.

Just curious if you know of someone who will retrofit at 2.5. SVP quote over 5. I'm currently collecting parts to retrofit my pre-VR C2 with A/C in order to get the wife to agree to a drive down through France, Italy, Austria and so on.

[AlvinSultana]

Think my 993 c2s will be up for sale soon.

Ones residence requires a new roof.

Although every time I think about actually doing it the bloody car seems to have appreciated again !

(I might have to double post this here http://www.pistonheads.com/GASSING/topic.asp?h=0&a... )

[Orangecurry]

blindspot said:

Just curious if you know of someone who will retrofit at 2.5. SVP quote over 5. I'm currently collecting parts to retrofit my pre-VR C2 with A/C in order to get the wife to agree to a drive down through France, Italy, Austria and so on.

Didn't Jackal strip his out?

[blindspot]

I did exchange my non-A/C CCU for his A/C one, but will want to fit a new Griffiths/Kuehl serpentine evaporator, new condensor, new pipework. Already have compressor - £30 off ebay. Happy to go 2/h for condensor bracket/fan, compressor bracket and other bits that don't need to be gas tight.

Awfully good egg that Jackal.

[LeoSayer]

blindspot said:

Just curious if you know of someone who will retrofit at 2.5. SVP quote over 5. I'm currently collecting parts to retrofit my pre-VR C2 with A/C in order to get the wife to agree to a drive down through France, Italy, Austria and so on.

Try Alpinair in Hanger Lane.

[jackal]

The thingy behiind the fuel tank and the pipes that run along the NS sill are still on my car i think.