How much is a 991GT3RS allocation worth?

[av185]

5517 said:

av185 said:

Nice try

errrr... it was you that was TRYING not me.

Its human nature and if I had a 2015 Im sure I'd sing the same song in the exact same key but in reality its worth no more than a 2014 car.
A bit like a 1974 2.7 RS is worth not a penny more than a 1973 2.7 RS.

Edited by 5517 on Wednesday 25th February 00:13

Apples and pears.......cannot compare a 41/42 year old car with a c1year old!

As a guide, and roughly at the same money, obtain a trade bid on say a 2013 458 Italia and a 2014 model. Big difference.......and as you know, their production numbers were far greater.......

[throt]

PorscheGT4 said:

AndrewD said:

You need to have some perspective. Lap times on track days are literally miles off what any of these cars are capable of, for many reasons.

So an average driver can get from 50% to 55% of what the car can do, isn't really defying the laws of physics. Sorry, Porsche have not confounded Newton etc just yet!

A st driver will always be st, I see many of them every day, they would prob crash a GT3 even an automatic one :-p

A driver of a high standard in a Automatic with a few aids will lap a lot faster than he would in a GT3RS 4.0

I am talking driving at 90% of what the car can do not 50%

take a ring lap time as an example, a Pro driver in the same car Automatic vs manual would be within a few seconds.
myself, I would be about 20 seconds faster in the Automatic on a ring lap.


or put it this way, get a Pro driver to set a time in both cars manual and automatic.

I would be closer to the pro's lap time in the automatic car.

Edited by PorscheGT4 on Wednesday 25th February 09:37

I think we all agree with you. The debate is,,, will the 991 GT3 retain good value like the 997 because of its electronic enhanced features. Imo,,,, I think it will. Joe Public will pay, its a GT3.

[AndrewD]

That's all very well. But somebody earlier said the gt3 makes a st driver go fast. It doesn't. It means a st driver will have a huge accident.

I'm not disputing modern cars are easier to extract more performance out of.

I think this "extract performance" discussion is a bit pointless though. I doubt I drive much faster or slower in my gt3 or cgt on public roads. It's about the mood and so many other things. Probably just me though.

[V8KSN]

APOLO1 said:

V8KSN said:

As a side note, I think its a little disingenuous to say the 997 4.0 RS is a 'parts bin' special as the Mezger engine alone is a masterpiece!

"Masterpiece", lol, just remind me how many have had new engines...?

The engine IS a masterpiece and I am not the only one who has said that. The Mezger engine is recognised as world class! In comparison the new engine for the 991 GT3 is still at Primary school, lets see how it does when they take it racing

The new engine was evidently built to a budget too judging by how many had to go back to the factory for a recall,....sorry, I meant re-design

[Richie200]

APOLO1 said:

Richie200 said:

This just about sums it up perfectly for me. The 991GTR is the better car when measured by conventional top-trumps type metrics. But on every other level the 997 is in a completely different league. I just cannot see how the synthesized later variant can even be compared with the greatness that is the 997. I do not need to drive the auto to know that it will not provide the tactility and complete engagement that the 997 delivers like no other.
I really appreciate and understand what the 991GT3 is all about and fully get why it has it's myriad followers. It is just not the platform from which my personal hoonage fix can be quenched.

Straying a little way off topic to get that off my chest now mind

The 991GT3 is attaining stratospheric values, £180K now I believe. Bearing this in mind, the base spec 991RS is expected to be around £45k list price more than the GT3. Generally RS variants of the past have progressively stretched away from the normal GT3 prices by some margin. I personally see the 991GT3RS retaining it's £45K margin above the GT3 as an absolute minimum, so as it currently stands, that would equate to around a £200-220K price at launch. Factor in the press coverage; that will no doubt hail this an apocalyptic game-changer, rendering all challengers at up to double this price point not worthy and I have no idea where this will take asking prices... Any here more informed than I like to hazard a guess???

Back to this LHD RHD price point for moment, I was chatting to an OPC is Eu today, about prices ect. I showed him the 180k car.........He thought it was for 2.......I kid you not..

Shocking; this discrepancy between LHD and RHD makes no sense. All CGT are LHD, 996RS is more expensive in LHD, then the reverse for 991GT3. There doesn't appear to be any logic which would explain the vast difference in LHD to RHD 991GT3 price; 10% deviation I could understand. My guess is in the future the gap will start to narrow as more LHD become available in the UK.

[isaldiri]

Richie200 said:

Shocking; this discrepancy between LHD and RHD makes no sense. All CGT are LHD, 996RS is more expensive in LHD, then the reverse for 991GT3. There doesn't appear to be any logic which would explain the vast difference in LHD to RHD 991GT3 price; 10% deviation I could understand. My guess is in the future the gap will start to narrow as more LHD become available in the UK.

It's a question of supply I guess. ~120 UK RHD 6RS out of the 650 ish cars? Compared to maybe ~130 UK 7.2RS out of 1600 cars and say ~180 UK 991 GT3s vs worldwide ~2k cars? The CSL is a good example as well, there were a lot of RHD cars (~500) out of a total of 1400 cars I think and the LHD CSL for some years have been a lot more expensive.

[Richie200]

isaldiri said:

It's a question of supply I guess. ~120 UK RHD 6RS out of the 650 ish cars? Compared to maybe ~130 UK 7.2RS out of 1600 cars and say ~180 UK 991 GT3s vs worldwide ~2k cars? The CSL is a good example as well, there were a lot of RHD cars (~500) out of a total of 1400 cars I think and the LHD CSL for some years have been a lot more expensive.

You are quite right and I understand the supply vs demand argument, I just don't think it answers the size of the discrepancy in this case.

[APOLO1]

The UK price thing can not be anything other than other than supply v demand., for what is a great car

Its 100% not market making as its all physical stock, It not over seas RHDs like the 4.0s, I have tired my 4.0 friends, they do not even return emails on the car....

[AndrewD]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Involving is a subjective term, and let's be honest the 997 is a modern car not some old unservoed beardy porsche.

Rws and pdk mean many things, yes you can go faster with relatively less or similar effort/skill but they also open up a different experience. The way the tacho zips up between 8-9000rpm, the manic noise, it is intoxicating stuff and matches the pdk perfectly imo. Same with the rws, the car feels ultra nimble. But it still sniffs out cambers and imperfections, the steering is full of life, the traction out of corners is incredible, you can still trailbrake and the car feels alive. All imo.

[wtdoom]

AndrewD said:

Involving is a subjective term, and let's be honest the 997 is a modern car not some old unservoed beardy porsche.

Rws and pdk mean many things, yes you can go faster with relatively less or similar effort/skill but they also open up a different experience. The way the tacho zips up between 8-9000rpm, the manic noise, it is intoxicating stuff and matches the pdk perfectly imo. Same with the rws, the car feels ultra nimble. But it still sniffs out cambers and imperfections, the steering is full of life, the traction out of corners is incredible, you can still trailbrake and the car feels alive. All imo.

Hang on a minute , I thought one couldn't feel the electronic intervention ?

[hufggfg]

Personally, I think the size of the discrepancy is entirely explained by supply/demand (after all, it has to be as long as we agree that the discrepancy is real and not just a fantasy).

I think the difference is WHERE the demand is coming from for the 991GT3. My guess is that it's made up much more of rich "car fans" that want to have the great car of the moment, and are paying up to make sure they can have it. For this type of driver they don't want to have an LHD model, precisely BECAUSE other people will know that they got it because it is cheaper. For a real enthusiast there is clearly still a RHD/LHD difference, but it's not £60k+.

My guess is that once the 991GT3 is no longer the "new-new thing", once there is a 991RS, and potentially a 991.2GT3 (or 991GT2) then the RHD 991GT3 prices are going to start to get hit (probably before that, but I think that'll be a line in the sand).

[wtdoom]

AndrewD said:

I suspect people are mistaking what the new gt3 is, because they are looking for it to be like the old one.

Newsflash, it isn't. With rws in particular, it is more like a mid engined car. And a very good one at that, imo. But it is still just a car, it isn't going to defy the laws of physics or make a st driver good.

PH has become a bloody mumsnet bhfest, honestly. Just appreciate different cars for what they are ffs

Why is it a b fest? The discussion is very friendly and measured ?
Regards
Confused of manflu

[APOLO1]

hufggfg said:

My guess is that once the 991GT3 is no longer the "new-new thing", once there is a 991RS, and potentially a 991.2GT3 (or 991GT2) then the RHD 991GT3 prices are going to start to get hit (probably before that, but I think that'll be a line in the sand).

H, just a polite question, do you own a 991GT3?

Taking into account that its a" known known" that there is no Gen 2 991Gen 2 GT3 or GT2 version, along with that fact very soon I expect to see a flood of depos being returned just like the GT4, I can only see demand for the GT3 going through the roof...Ie if I was up for an RS and did not get one, I would have no hesitation in grabbing the 1st GT3 to my spec that I could lay hands on...

[NIgt3]

APOLO1 said:

"Masterpiece", lol, just remind me how many have had new engines...? but I see your point, like I said above.

"parts bin" the parts bin is perfectly apt, I take it you are aware of just how much the 4.0 cost over the 3.8 Gen 2 in parts,? from the bin

Edited by APOLO1 on Tuesday 24th February 15:55

Masterpiece probably because its won so many races, over many years, against so many different forms of competetion, something that cannot be said about the newer 991 gt engine.

I wonder how well the newer engine is doing in racing this year? Oh sorry forgot their still using the old mezger

[Mermaid]

APOLO1 said:

hufggfg said:

My guess is that once the 991GT3 is no longer the "new-new thing", once there is a 991RS, and potentially a 991.2GT3 (or 991GT2) then the RHD 991GT3 prices are going to start to get hit (probably before that, but I think that'll be a line in the sand).

H, just a polite question, do you own a 991GT3?

Taking into account that its a" known known" that there is no Gen 2 991Gen 2 GT3 or GT2 version, along with that fact very soon I expect to see a flood of depos being returned just like the GT4, I can only see demand for the GT3 going through the roof...Ie if I was up for an RS and did not get one, I would have no hesitation in grabbing the 1st GT3 to my spec that I could lay hands on...

I assume you have a 991 GT3, and will probably never sell it.

Polite question - how is it a "known known"? Link please, and no nods and winks.

hufggfg makes a reasonable assessment.

[AndrewD]

wtdoom said:

AndrewD said:

I suspect people are mistaking what the new gt3 is, because they are looking for it to be like the old one.

Newsflash, it isn't. With rws in particular, it is more like a mid engined car. And a very good one at that, imo. But it is still just a car, it isn't going to defy the laws of physics or make a st driver good.

PH has become a bloody mumsnet bhfest, honestly. Just appreciate different cars for what they are ffs

Why is it a b fest? The discussion is very friendly and measured ?
Regards
Confused of manflu

There is a lot of bhing and moaning on here I feel. Across multiple threads but often involving GT3 for some reason

[AndrewD]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Manual box means you are more involved in changing gear, for sure

[MDahmen]

isaldiri said:

Richie200 said:

Shocking; this discrepancy between LHD and RHD makes no sense. All CGT are LHD, 996RS is more expensive in LHD, then the reverse for 991GT3. There doesn't appear to be any logic which would explain the vast difference in LHD to RHD 991GT3 price; 10% deviation I could understand. My guess is in the future the gap will start to narrow as more LHD become available in the UK.

It's a question of supply I guess. ~120 UK RHD 6RS out of the 650 ish cars? Compared to maybe ~130 UK 7.2RS out of 1600 cars and say ~180 UK 991 GT3s vs worldwide ~2k cars? The CSL is a good example as well, there were a lot of RHD cars (~500) out of a total of 1400 cars I think and the LHD CSL for some years have been a lot more expensive.

I think there are fewer 991 GT3s than 997.2 RS worldwide - from memory only a little more than 1000 or 1100 - supposedly 3rd rarest GT water GT model after 6RS and 4.0. which might make sense given that there was a production stop and it was never a limited by numbers but rather limited by build time model as far as I am aware.

[AndrewD]

wtdoom said:

AndrewD said:

Involving is a subjective term, and let's be honest the 997 is a modern car not some old unservoed beardy porsche.

Rws and pdk mean many things, yes you can go faster with relatively less or similar effort/skill but they also open up a different experience. The way the tacho zips up between 8-9000rpm, the manic noise, it is intoxicating stuff and matches the pdk perfectly imo. Same with the rws, the car feels ultra nimble. But it still sniffs out cambers and imperfections, the steering is full of life, the traction out of corners is incredible, you can still trailbrake and the car feels alive. All imo.

Hang on a minute , I thought one couldn't feel the electronic intervention ?

Well, I didn't say that, somebody else did

[APOLO1]

MDahmen said:

I think there are fewer 991 GT3s than 997.2 RS worldwide - from memory only a little more than 1000 or 1100 - supposedly 3rd rarest GT water GT model after 6RS and 4.0. which might make sense given that there was a production stop and it was never a limited by numbers but rather limited by build time model as far as I am aware.

how do you see 1000 for the 991 GT3 ? there were almost 800 last Feb, and the fix aside it has been a continues production car for the past 12 months.......