How much is a 991GT3RS allocation worth?
Discussion
In all likelihood the New RS is likely to come with a £140k price tag. Many here have stated the GT3 was under-priced. Being realistic, the majority with LOI and deposits paid to OPC for the 991RS are going to be sadly let down. With this in mind, what do you think is a price worth paying to guarantee a slot?
My thinking is that with the 4.0RS providing a possible comparable value trajectory for future 991RS values; having the chance to buy one of these cars will likely net a similar return. What is the PH consensus on what being invited to the 991RS party is actually worth?
My thinking is that with the 4.0RS providing a possible comparable value trajectory for future 991RS values; having the chance to buy one of these cars will likely net a similar return. What is the PH consensus on what being invited to the 991RS party is actually worth?
Richie200 said:
In all likelihood the New RS is likely to come with a £140k price tag. Many here have stated the GT3 was under-priced. Being realistic, the majority with LOI and deposits paid to OPC for the 991RS are going to be sadly let down. With this in mind, what do you think is a price worth paying to guarantee a slot?
My thinking is that with the 4.0RS providing a possible comparable value trajectory for future 991RS values; having the chance to buy one of these cars will likely net a similar return. What is the PH consensus on what being invited to the 991RS party is actually worth?
I think the car will cost £150k and be instantly sellable for £200k.My thinking is that with the 4.0RS providing a possible comparable value trajectory for future 991RS values; having the chance to buy one of these cars will likely net a similar return. What is the PH consensus on what being invited to the 991RS party is actually worth?
I hope that anyone who chooses to do that, at the expense of genuine enthusiasts, is never able to obtain a 'special' RS or similar car in the future...
sidicks said:
I think the car will cost £150k and be instantly sellable for £200k.
I hope that anyone who chooses to do that, at the expense of genuine enthusiasts, is never able to obtain a 'special' RS or similar car in the future...
In all likelihood, genuine enthusiasts don't stand a chance of getting a car in the first place. Porsche seem to be going down the Ferrari 'invited VIP only' road, rather than letting the likes of you and I getting involved in such a car.I hope that anyone who chooses to do that, at the expense of genuine enthusiasts, is never able to obtain a 'special' RS or similar car in the future...
for a RHD car probably a gazillion million euros given that 991 GT3s will soon be worth more than any other Porsche ever produced (for various reasons)
not helpful I know ...
As I do not have the money to buy one, I did not spend too much time talking to German OPCs about getting one - from what I heard at the 2 OPCs I asked at, they were quite heavily oversubscribed (about double the number of LOIs vs expected allocations), so I'd think there should be a healthy premium available from somebody. There is one listed at €250k on mobile.de (NOA Cars Luxembourg). I guess base price will be around the €190k mark in Germany?
not helpful I know ...
As I do not have the money to buy one, I did not spend too much time talking to German OPCs about getting one - from what I heard at the 2 OPCs I asked at, they were quite heavily oversubscribed (about double the number of LOIs vs expected allocations), so I'd think there should be a healthy premium available from somebody. There is one listed at €250k on mobile.de (NOA Cars Luxembourg). I guess base price will be around the €190k mark in Germany?
Richie200 said:
My thinking is that with the 4.0RS providing a possible comparable value trajectory for future 991RS values; having the chance to buy one of these cars will likely net a similar return.
I think that's probably wrong. I think the exact reason the RS4.0 has gone up so dramatically is that it's seen as the last (and best) of a great breed (manual, mezger, no EPAS etc).I'm sure it (the 991RS) will go very well bid, but I think the numbers talked about above are probably about correct, I'm guessing £140k list, realistically most leave at £160k and are quickly worth around the £200k mark.
The only thing that makes me think this might be under-valuing it is that the "standard" GT3 seems to be somewhere up at £160k now (which seems madness to me), and I'd expect the RS to trade at a pretty significant premium to the GT3 (much as the 997 does).
This is part of why I think the 991GT3 is a bit over valued at this point. It's clearly moved the game on hugely, but in 5-10 years time it will be replaced (a few times over) by something that's faster and better in every way, but no less involving (the only fly in the ointment here could be turbos). So I'd expect it to start coming down in value. Whereas with the 997 generation, there is never going to be anything like it made again unfortunately.
Imv, taking into account of tech material's ect, I would expect the RS to be around 175k plus with the right bits.
Due to the expected low nos and demand for RHDs, I see absolutely no reason as to why the 991RS will not track the 997,4.0rs from a price point....
Due to this I expect to see further upward movement on the 991GT3, 150k was a price point before xams, its gone through this now along with a few are taking profit, 180k is now the old 150k.
The likes of myself and a few others on here know the true valve of the GT3, what else is there under a 2nd hand spaz? me, I rate the 991GT3 above the Spaz.
Easy to see a good spec low miles 991GT3 CS, at 200k very soon...
Due to the expected low nos and demand for RHDs, I see absolutely no reason as to why the 991RS will not track the 997,4.0rs from a price point....
Due to this I expect to see further upward movement on the 991GT3, 150k was a price point before xams, its gone through this now along with a few are taking profit, 180k is now the old 150k.
The likes of myself and a few others on here know the true valve of the GT3, what else is there under a 2nd hand spaz? me, I rate the 991GT3 above the Spaz.
Easy to see a good spec low miles 991GT3 CS, at 200k very soon...
APOLO1 said:
Imv, taking into account of tech material's ect, I would expect the RS to be around 175k plus with the right bits.
Due to the expected low nos and demand for RHDs, I see absolutely no reason as to why the 991RS will not track the 997,4.0rs from a price point....
Due to this I expect to see further upward movement on the 991GT3, 150k was a price point before xams, its gone through this now along with a few are taking profit, 180k is now the old 150k.
The likes of myself and a few others on here know the true valve of the GT3, what else is there under a 2nd hand spaz? me, I rate the 991GT3 above the Spaz.
Easy to see a good spec low miles 991GT3 CS, at 200k very soon...
In terms of the RRP, I think you might well be right. Though all GT cars seem "cheap" when compared to other models, so I really wouldn't be surprised to see it at £140-150k.Due to the expected low nos and demand for RHDs, I see absolutely no reason as to why the 991RS will not track the 997,4.0rs from a price point....
Due to this I expect to see further upward movement on the 991GT3, 150k was a price point before xams, its gone through this now along with a few are taking profit, 180k is now the old 150k.
The likes of myself and a few others on here know the true valve of the GT3, what else is there under a 2nd hand spaz? me, I rate the 991GT3 above the Spaz.
Easy to see a good spec low miles 991GT3 CS, at 200k very soon...
While I see your points, I just think the 991 GT3 has gone a bit too far already. Yes, I'm sure it's an absolutely great car, I'm just not sure it's a 200k car quite yet. I personally think that someone buying one at £200k is going to get burned.
The "true" value of a car is whatever the market price is, you can think the market is mad and is going to move, but at any time that's the "true" value.
hufggfg said:
In terms of the RRP, I think you might well be right. Though all GT cars seem "cheap" when compared to other models, so I really wouldn't be surprised to see it at £140-150k.
While I see your points, I just think the 991 GT3 has gone a bit too far already. Yes, I'm sure it's an absolutely great car, I'm just not sure it's a 200k car quite yet. I personally think that someone buying one at £200k is going to get burned.
The "true" value of a car is whatever the market price is, you can think the market is mad and is going to move, but at any time that's the "true" value.
you say its gone to far, but take a view away from "binary mode" forget the list price, that's gone out of the window, look the car, look just how good it is, what else is there? Don't forget that there will very soon be a "tsunami" of upward pressure from demand, I can see 200k an easy call.....While I see your points, I just think the 991 GT3 has gone a bit too far already. Yes, I'm sure it's an absolutely great car, I'm just not sure it's a 200k car quite yet. I personally think that someone buying one at £200k is going to get burned.
The "true" value of a car is whatever the market price is, you can think the market is mad and is going to move, but at any time that's the "true" value.
APOLO1 said:
you say its gone to far, but take a view away from "binary mode" forget the list price, that's gone out of the window, look the car, look just how good it is, what else is there? Don't forget that there will very soon be the upward pressure from demand, I can see 200k an easy call.....
I know you love the 991 GT3 but can you tell me why you love it more than your 997 4.0 RS?Is it the speed?
Is it the usability?
Is it the comfort?
Is it the handling?
What is it about this car that is a game-changer?
V8KSN said:
I know you love the 991 GT3 but can you tell me why you love it more than your 997 4.0 RS?
Is it the speed?
Is it the usability?
Is it the comfort?
Is it the handling?
What is it about this car that is a game-changer?
The 991GT3 just moves the game on, the 9974.0 whilst a great car was just that," WAS" being the best of the parts bin, the 991GT3 is designed from DNA, to be better in every area. Difficult to pick out any of the above, I would say its all of the above...Is it the speed?
Is it the usability?
Is it the comfort?
Is it the handling?
What is it about this car that is a game-changer?
Even the steering is taken direct from the LMP2 race car, its that good constantly bobbing around giving feedback, the PDK-S is accepted as the best box in any GT car, end of.. the brakes , the turn, the engine, though if I had a choice I would like to see the 4.0RS engine in the 91GT3, the extra torque would be nice....
I have heard a lot of critique on here from some that say the car has to much tech, ie RWS, TV, etc, as such it has lost some of the interaction , I note that this is in "the round" from those that have never driven the car, or yet to see it past its 1st tank of fuel...
Nothing could be further from the truth, the best point about all the tech is that you cannot actually feel in working.......
But like have said, just my views....
APOLO1 said:
The 991GT3 just moves the game on, the 9974.0 whilst a great car was just that," WAS" being the best of the parts bin, the 991GT3 is designed from DNA, to be better in every area. Difficult to pick out any of the above, I would say its all of the above...
Even the steering is taken direct from the LMP2 race car, its that good constantly bobbing around giving feedback, the PDK-S is accepted as the best box in any GT car, end of.. the brakes , the turn, the engine, though if I had a choice I would like to see the 4.0RS engine in the 91GT3, the extra torque would be nice....
I have heard a lot of critique on here from some that say the car has to much tech, ie RWS, TV, etc, as such it has lost some of the interaction , I note that this is in "the round" from those that have never driven the car, or yet to see it past its 1st tank of fuel...
Nothing could be further from the truth, the best point about all the tech is that you cannot actually feel in working.......
But like have said, just my views....
That's fair enough, you love it and nobody can take that away. Having not driven one I cannot comment but its interesting to hear your views. Even the steering is taken direct from the LMP2 race car, its that good constantly bobbing around giving feedback, the PDK-S is accepted as the best box in any GT car, end of.. the brakes , the turn, the engine, though if I had a choice I would like to see the 4.0RS engine in the 91GT3, the extra torque would be nice....
I have heard a lot of critique on here from some that say the car has to much tech, ie RWS, TV, etc, as such it has lost some of the interaction , I note that this is in "the round" from those that have never driven the car, or yet to see it past its 1st tank of fuel...
Nothing could be further from the truth, the best point about all the tech is that you cannot actually feel in working.......
But like have said, just my views....
For me personally, I am not sure how much 'better' it could be from my car (997.1 GT3) as I don't think my car needs anything else..... apart from maybe some more compliant suspension! But that should be sorted with some new EXE-TC dampers.
As a side note, I think its a little disingenuous to say the 997 4.0 RS is a 'parts bin' special as the Mezger engine alone is a masterpiece!
APOLO1 said:
The 991GT3 just moves the game on, the 9974.0 whilst a great car was just that," WAS" being the best of the parts bin, the 991GT3 is designed from DNA, to be better in every area. Difficult to pick out any of the above, I would say its all of the above...
Even the steering is taken direct from the LMP2 race car, its that good constantly bobbing around giving feedback, the PDK-S is accepted as the best box in any GT car, end of.. the brakes , the turn, the engine, though if I had a choice I would like to see the 4.0RS engine in the 91GT3, the extra torque would be nice....
I have heard a lot of critique on here from some that say the car has to much tech, ie RWS, TV, etc, as such it has lost some of the interaction , I note that this is in "the round" from those that have never driven the car, or yet to see it past its 1st tank of fuel...
Nothing could be further from the truth, the best point about all the tech is that you cannot actually feel in working.......
But like have said, just my views....
Not just your views, but the views of most who have spent a decent amount of time on the car. The 991 GT3 feels like a much more stable and better tuned car than other GT3s that I have driven. That's not to say that there's anything 'wrong' with the 996 / 997 GT3, they're incredible cars and very special in their own right, but the 991 just feels more resolved as a whole package. That's development progress I guess.Even the steering is taken direct from the LMP2 race car, its that good constantly bobbing around giving feedback, the PDK-S is accepted as the best box in any GT car, end of.. the brakes , the turn, the engine, though if I had a choice I would like to see the 4.0RS engine in the 91GT3, the extra torque would be nice....
I have heard a lot of critique on here from some that say the car has to much tech, ie RWS, TV, etc, as such it has lost some of the interaction , I note that this is in "the round" from those that have never driven the car, or yet to see it past its 1st tank of fuel...
Nothing could be further from the truth, the best point about all the tech is that you cannot actually feel in working.......
But like have said, just my views....
I was adamant that I wouldn't ever have a PDK car. But the 991 GT3 was the first car that I actually enjoyed using paddles in (I drive it in manual mode 99% of the time). It's not just the box, but the implementation that makes it so much better than in other PDK equipped cars - the better software, the gearing, no horrid kick down on the throttle, the 2 paddle clutch engagement etc. It's PDK for people who don't like PDK. Before the car was run int I still yearned for a manual gear stick, but when you're on it and up at 8-9k rpm the car is so rewarding and brain so engaged that you completely forget you used to like 3 pedals and a stick.
Agreed. As the years roll by, the Mezger, steering and manual factors will be important. In fact, they are already important based on the £300k+ prices.
The 991RS will be a monster but not as historically/evolutionarily important. I think an order slot is worth £50k, at least.
Future value is ultimately dictated by what the next model is like. If it's a hybrid, then the 991 be another "last of the..." and be crazy money. I guess that hinges on the FIA as this is meant to be a homoglation car after all.
The 991RS will be a monster but not as historically/evolutionarily important. I think an order slot is worth £50k, at least.
Future value is ultimately dictated by what the next model is like. If it's a hybrid, then the 991 be another "last of the..." and be crazy money. I guess that hinges on the FIA as this is meant to be a homoglation car after all.
V8KSN said:
That's fair enough, you love it and nobody can take that away. Having not driven one I cannot comment but its interesting to hear your views.
For me personally, I am not sure how much 'better' it could be from my car (997.1 GT3) as I don't think my car needs anything else..... apart from maybe some more compliant suspension! But that should be sorted with some new EXE-TC dampers.
As a side note, I think its a little disingenuous to say the 997 4.0 RS is a 'parts bin' special as the Mezger engine alone is a masterpiece!
"Masterpiece", lol, just remind me how many have had new engines...? but I see your point, like I said above.For me personally, I am not sure how much 'better' it could be from my car (997.1 GT3) as I don't think my car needs anything else..... apart from maybe some more compliant suspension! But that should be sorted with some new EXE-TC dampers.
As a side note, I think its a little disingenuous to say the 997 4.0 RS is a 'parts bin' special as the Mezger engine alone is a masterpiece!
"parts bin" the parts bin is perfectly apt, I take it you are aware of just how much the 4.0 cost over the 3.8 Gen 2 in parts,? from the bin
Edited by APOLO1 on Tuesday 24th February 15:55
APOLO1 said:
gregf40 said:
Out of interest Apolo...have you driven the GTR Nismo?
no, would like to try the Nismo at some point, my friends in HK rate themGassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff