GT3 RS Order Cancelled
Discussion
GT3SG said:
Can't listen to this rubbish any longer!
I have dealt with Cardiff (Wales) OPC for many many years and they have always acted in a most decent and honest manner. I know who is on the list for the RS cars, and whilst it is a list of usual candidates (me included) they are there because they have supported the dealership and bought many GT, RS and other products over the years. They also would have had their names on the list for many years, never mind 18 months!
So why take more deposits if they already have all the buyers they needI have dealt with Cardiff (Wales) OPC for many many years and they have always acted in a most decent and honest manner. I know who is on the list for the RS cars, and whilst it is a list of usual candidates (me included) they are there because they have supported the dealership and bought many GT, RS and other products over the years. They also would have had their names on the list for many years, never mind 18 months!
awg454 said:
GT3SG said:
Can't listen to this rubbish any longer!
I have dealt with Cardiff (Wales) OPC for many many years and they have always acted in a most decent and honest manner. I know who is on the list for the RS cars, and whilst it is a list of usual candidates (me included) they are there because they have supported the dealership and bought many GT, RS and other products over the years. They also would have had their names on the list for many years, never mind 18 months!
So why take more deposits if they already have all the buyers they needI have dealt with Cardiff (Wales) OPC for many many years and they have always acted in a most decent and honest manner. I know who is on the list for the RS cars, and whilst it is a list of usual candidates (me included) they are there because they have supported the dealership and bought many GT, RS and other products over the years. They also would have had their names on the list for many years, never mind 18 months!
I think this tread needs to be directed at the brand not OPC Cardiff. The problem lies with the lack of RHD units made available by Porsche itself.
I for one would not want to be the poor DP having to make the choice of who has a car or not!
The fact of the matter is that if Porsche built these cars to order we would not have this problem, you would also resolve the problem of speculators flipping them in 6 months for a quick buck...
I for one would not want to be the poor DP having to make the choice of who has a car or not!
The fact of the matter is that if Porsche built these cars to order we would not have this problem, you would also resolve the problem of speculators flipping them in 6 months for a quick buck...
BMCG said:
LordOfTheManor said:
Despite handing over my deposit in October 2013 at the OPC Wales and being told regularly that I was number one, I have today been informed that I am fifth on the list and will therefore not be receiving my promised car.
Cant help but feel a little cheated to say the least.
Looking now to purchase a build slot from anyone looking to sell at a premium.
+1 Cant help but feel a little cheated to say the least.
Looking now to purchase a build slot from anyone looking to sell at a premium.
Deposit placed in August 2013...and now the "we're sorry sir, but we've assigned the RS cars.." and you are SOL..
ro51ter said:
I think this tread needs to be directed at the brand not OPC Cardiff. The problem lies with the lack of RHD units made available by Porsche itself.
I for one would not want to be the poor DP having to make the choice of who has a car or not!
The fact of the matter is that if Porsche built these cars to order we would not have this problem, you would also resolve the problem of speculators flipping them in 6 months for a quick buck...
There are two distinct issues here:I for one would not want to be the poor DP having to make the choice of who has a car or not!
The fact of the matter is that if Porsche built these cars to order we would not have this problem, you would also resolve the problem of speculators flipping them in 6 months for a quick buck...
1. Stuttgart not providing enough RHD cars.
2. OPCs misleading and mistreating their customers, regardless of their loyalty or how much money they have spent with them.
The first point had always been an issue - look at the history of RHD vs LHD numbers. The second however is getting worse over time and OPC sales people's behaviour needs to be disciplined or controlled so that they treat all customers with respect and honesty.
Some say things at Porsche have got worse since VAG group took over. Either way it's the customer who loses.
GT3SG said:
Can't listen to this rubbish any longer!
I have dealt with Cardiff (Wales) OPC for many many years and they have always acted in a most decent and honest manner. I know who is on the list for the RS cars, and whilst it is a list of usual candidates (me included) they are there because they have supported the dealership and bought many GT, RS and other products over the years. They also would have had their names on the list for many years, never mind 18 months!
Seconded, Cardiff OPC have always been superb with me, but then I've bought from them historically, and they look after my older car very well. I have dealt with Cardiff (Wales) OPC for many many years and they have always acted in a most decent and honest manner. I know who is on the list for the RS cars, and whilst it is a list of usual candidates (me included) they are there because they have supported the dealership and bought many GT, RS and other products over the years. They also would have had their names on the list for many years, never mind 18 months!
Secondly, I don't flip, spend a lot of time there drinking coffee, complain continually about incidentals and need a red carpet when collecting a car. Swings both ways.
They have been very honest, transparent and genuine. A lot to be said for treating the OPC failrly and with respect, I strongly believe you reap what you sow in this market, though feel for those have have possibly genuine issues with some other perhaps OPC's if that is really the case.
throt said:
awg454 said:
GT3SG said:
Can't listen to this rubbish any longer!
I have dealt with Cardiff (Wales) OPC for many many years and they have always acted in a most decent and honest manner. I know who is on the list for the RS cars, and whilst it is a list of usual candidates (me included) they are there because they have supported the dealership and bought many GT, RS and other products over the years. They also would have had their names on the list for many years, never mind 18 months!
So why take more deposits if they already have all the buyers they needI have dealt with Cardiff (Wales) OPC for many many years and they have always acted in a most decent and honest manner. I know who is on the list for the RS cars, and whilst it is a list of usual candidates (me included) they are there because they have supported the dealership and bought many GT, RS and other products over the years. They also would have had their names on the list for many years, never mind 18 months!
All this though at the expense of Mr Ever Hopeful.
BMCG said:
What is your evidence that "Porsche have done a great job?"....has PAG or even PCGB actually done the allocations? Rather it seems left up to the individual OPCs...no?
If Porsche stated - and honestly it should come from loyalty to PAG product...not a franchised OPC, and somewhat akin to Ferrari with the limited edition vehicles - that obtaining the GT products was contingent on multiple prior purchases...then cool...one knows the rules of the game.
At the moment the rules are left up to the OPCs...and yet is the Porsche brand that takes damage...
Will I wander to the F car or M car stable...doubtful....do I feel unfairly treated after 5 911s...in two countries over 10 yrs (two of them GT3s)...somewhat...
I've a 991 Turbo S and 7.2 RS to ease the pain...but I will still express my frustration and suggest a better path to PAG.
I don't expect to find an RS in my stocking...
but at the very least my observations might..just might prompt some better thinking by PAG on how to constructively handle limited products...without antagonizing loyal brand supporters
It's just from what I have observed on the other forum . If Porsche stated - and honestly it should come from loyalty to PAG product...not a franchised OPC, and somewhat akin to Ferrari with the limited edition vehicles - that obtaining the GT products was contingent on multiple prior purchases...then cool...one knows the rules of the game.
At the moment the rules are left up to the OPCs...and yet is the Porsche brand that takes damage...
Will I wander to the F car or M car stable...doubtful....do I feel unfairly treated after 5 911s...in two countries over 10 yrs (two of them GT3s)...somewhat...
I've a 991 Turbo S and 7.2 RS to ease the pain...but I will still express my frustration and suggest a better path to PAG.
I don't expect to find an RS in my stocking...
but at the very least my observations might..just might prompt some better thinking by PAG on how to constructively handle limited products...without antagonizing loyal brand supporters
You have to remember the gt3 rs is more limited than Porsche wanted . Tooling stops on the 991 .1 very soon .
Porsche have a limited time to knock these out because of the gt3 engine debacle . It's unfortunate some didn't get cars but these things happen . I couldn't get a 4.0 , I didn't take them to court even though I knew the 4.0 was coming before Porsche uk did . These things happen .
Porsche give guidelines on who gets the cars ( for example all 918 buyers had to get first dibs ) then the decision comes down to the heads of each opc FYI . I think they were advised to use buying history as one of the main points
Carl_Docklands said:
Sorry Doom mate, that by itself is a very expansive criteria. I have never owned any car other than Porsche, hows that for loyal ?
I have never a flipped a car either, apart from back to OPC for a heavy loss.
Can I get a GT based on that Criteria? No.
So, back to the point made earlier in the thread, I would define an 'old boys network' in this instance as being very much what Porsche GB are risking here, they have left it up to the murky world of private car dealing, playing up to the old stereotypical back-hander image of the car dealer. It is unfair on the dealers, however its the parent companies fault in this instance, Porsche are artificially creating a GT bubble in the RHD UK market, we need more cars.
It is but I genuinely wanted to know what "old boys network " meant . I think it's unfair , they have done better than ferrari ever do . Remember they are making less than they want to , that's not an excuse . You are an example of someone that should have got one , just like I should have been allocated a 4.0 997 rs . The difference is we take it on the chin not take them to court ! It's the court business that I find bloody ridiculous , I completely understand people being disappointed , completely .I have never a flipped a car either, apart from back to OPC for a heavy loss.
Can I get a GT based on that Criteria? No.
So, back to the point made earlier in the thread, I would define an 'old boys network' in this instance as being very much what Porsche GB are risking here, they have left it up to the murky world of private car dealing, playing up to the old stereotypical back-hander image of the car dealer. It is unfair on the dealers, however its the parent companies fault in this instance, Porsche are artificially creating a GT bubble in the RHD UK market, we need more cars.
Edited by wtdoom on Thursday 5th March 20:32
Derek007 said:
Very simple...if an order is placed and deposit accepted a contract is agreed. If the seller cannot provide the goods ordered the buyer has the right to purchase the product elsewhere and claim the difference back from the seller. This is UK law.
I'm sure Porsche / Dick lovetts solicitors will have this one covered ! wtdoom said:
BMCG said:
What is your evidence that "Porsche have done a great job?"....has PAG or even PCGB actually done the allocations? Rather it seems left up to the individual OPCs...no?
If Porsche stated - and honestly it should come from loyalty to PAG product...not a franchised OPC, and somewhat akin to Ferrari with the limited edition vehicles - that obtaining the GT products was contingent on multiple prior purchases...then cool...one knows the rules of the game.
At the moment the rules are left up to the OPCs...and yet is the Porsche brand that takes damage...
Will I wander to the F car or M car stable...doubtful....do I feel unfairly treated after 5 911s...in two countries over 10 yrs (two of them GT3s)...somewhat...
I've a 991 Turbo S and 7.2 RS to ease the pain...but I will still express my frustration and suggest a better path to PAG.
I don't expect to find an RS in my stocking...
but at the very least my observations might..just might prompt some better thinking by PAG on how to constructively handle limited products...without antagonizing loyal brand supporters
It's just from what I have observed on the other forum . If Porsche stated - and honestly it should come from loyalty to PAG product...not a franchised OPC, and somewhat akin to Ferrari with the limited edition vehicles - that obtaining the GT products was contingent on multiple prior purchases...then cool...one knows the rules of the game.
At the moment the rules are left up to the OPCs...and yet is the Porsche brand that takes damage...
Will I wander to the F car or M car stable...doubtful....do I feel unfairly treated after 5 911s...in two countries over 10 yrs (two of them GT3s)...somewhat...
I've a 991 Turbo S and 7.2 RS to ease the pain...but I will still express my frustration and suggest a better path to PAG.
I don't expect to find an RS in my stocking...
but at the very least my observations might..just might prompt some better thinking by PAG on how to constructively handle limited products...without antagonizing loyal brand supporters
You have to remember the gt3 rs is more limited than Porsche wanted . Tooling stops on the 991 .1 very soon .
Porsche have a limited time to knock these out because of the gt3 engine debacle . It's unfortunate some didn't get cars but these things happen . I couldn't get a 4.0 , I didn't take them to court even though I knew the 4.0 was coming before Porsche uk did . These things happen .
Porsche give guidelines on who gets the cars ( for example all 918 buyers had to get first dibs ) then the decision comes down to the heads of each opc FYI . I think they were advised to use buying history as one of the main points
Carl_Docklands said:
Sorry Doom mate, that by itself is a very expansive criteria. I have never owned any car other than Porsche, hows that for loyal ?
I have never a flipped a car either, apart from back to OPC for a heavy loss.
Can I get a GT based on that Criteria? No.
So, back to the point made earlier in the thread, I would define an 'old boys network' in this instance as being very much what Porsche GB are risking here, they have left it up to the murky world of private car dealing, playing up to the old stereotypical back-hander image of the car dealer. It is unfair on the dealers, however its the parent companies fault in this instance, Porsche are artificially creating a GT bubble in the RHD UK market, we need more cars.
It is but I genuinely wanted to know what "old boys network " meant . I think it's unfair , they have done better than ferrari ever do . Remember they are making less than they want to , that's not an excuse . You are an example of someone that should have got one , just like I should have been allocated a 4.0 997 rs . The difference is we take it on the chin not take them to court ! It's the court business that I find bloody ridiculous , I completely understand people being disappointed , completely .I have never a flipped a car either, apart from back to OPC for a heavy loss.
Can I get a GT based on that Criteria? No.
So, back to the point made earlier in the thread, I would define an 'old boys network' in this instance as being very much what Porsche GB are risking here, they have left it up to the murky world of private car dealing, playing up to the old stereotypical back-hander image of the car dealer. It is unfair on the dealers, however its the parent companies fault in this instance, Porsche are artificially creating a GT bubble in the RHD UK market, we need more cars.
Edited by wtdoom on Thursday 5th March 20:32
agree completely. I never thought that having an LOI/paid deposit/speccing a car up means you are definitely getting one. It just meant that you have a better chance of getting one than someone who didn't even go through the effort. Having a history of purchases from OPCs also matter as actions speak louder than words or future promises.
And lastly, why shouldn't a dealer get more LOIs or deposits? they want to sell more cars too. This way they can let Porsche know the exact demand that is out there for this product in the hope that they will get more cars to sell in the future. Don't be sour, you just didn't support your OPC enough financially so why should you get a free handout? In the end, for those that spent money, I don't think profit was the main driver of getting a GT car but rather loving the brand. So, if you have the means and the patience, you will eventually get your dream GT car, it just may not be the route you had hoped or intended but it does ferret out the real and able supporters.
Robbo66 said:
GT3SG said:
Can't listen to this rubbish any longer!
I have dealt with Cardiff (Wales) OPC for many many years and they have always acted in a most decent and honest manner. I know who is on the list for the RS cars, and whilst it is a list of usual candidates (me included) they are there because they have supported the dealership and bought many GT, RS and other products over the years. They also would have had their names on the list for many years, never mind 18 months!
Seconded, Cardiff OPC have always been superb with me, but then I've bought from them historically, and they look after my older car very well. I have dealt with Cardiff (Wales) OPC for many many years and they have always acted in a most decent and honest manner. I know who is on the list for the RS cars, and whilst it is a list of usual candidates (me included) they are there because they have supported the dealership and bought many GT, RS and other products over the years. They also would have had their names on the list for many years, never mind 18 months!
Secondly, I don't flip, spend a lot of time there drinking coffee, complain continually about incidentals and need a red carpet when collecting a car. Swings both ways.
They have been very honest, transparent and genuine. A lot to be said for treating the OPC failrly and with respect, I strongly believe you reap what you sow in this market, though feel for those have have possibly genuine issues with some other perhaps OPC's if that is really the case.
Wtdoom: The definition in this instance is not having a set and known criteria for getting a car, if a set criteria is not created and published then unfortunately, companies open themselves up to these kinds of allegations, unfounded or founded. I am not making any sort of allegations however, from what we have seen posted on the forums, it is not good PR.
Personally, it is to my own benefit that there is no set criteria because, if there were, I would never make the list! I have no problem with 918 owners getting an auto-berth however, I think what should have happened is that Porsche should have increased the allocations to fit around that instead, what we have is a squeeze on the rest.
I am just happy that both of the launch colours suit my taste as I have high hopes for picking up a used one that I will like.
Personally, it is to my own benefit that there is no set criteria because, if there were, I would never make the list! I have no problem with 918 owners getting an auto-berth however, I think what should have happened is that Porsche should have increased the allocations to fit around that instead, what we have is a squeeze on the rest.
I am just happy that both of the launch colours suit my taste as I have high hopes for picking up a used one that I will like.
Edited by Carl_Docklands on Friday 6th March 13:28
Derek007 said:
Very simple...if an order is placed and deposit accepted a contract is agreed. If the seller cannot provide the goods ordered the buyer has the right to purchase the product elsewhere and claim the difference back from the seller. This is UK law.
Subject to the terms of the contract entered into with the dealer entity, which will likely provide that the dealer entity only has to provide a car if (i) they get one to sell, (ii) the customer has complied with their obligations, and (iii) time will not be of the essence for any of the dealer entity's obligations, meaning delivery dates (if the contract has not been terminated) are variable as the dealer elects and the purchaser cannot terminate for late delivery, providing the dealer still intends to proceed with the contract. None of us has seen the terms of the OP's purchase contract, so any commentary is speculation, but the terms of the standard form dealer sale contract will be in the dealer's favour. All subject to UCTA of course. Any contractual issues are between dealer entity and purchaser, PCGB and PAG are not relevant. They should not be telling dealers how or to whom the sell cars, lest they be accused of attempting to introduce retail price maintenance, or other anti competitive practices.
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