How to buy a new GT car from Porsche? Impossible?
Discussion
Is it just me being a bit of a dinosaur here but would it not be in Porsche's best interest NOT to piss clients off ?
If I order/pay for something etc i expect a definite answer, whether that be a yes, no or a maybe.
If i am then messed about they have 1 to 2 chances to put it right if not I'm off to spend my hard earned elsewhere.
Ethics should IMO be correct, not F-you, we can change our mind who gets what etc!
If I order/pay for something etc i expect a definite answer, whether that be a yes, no or a maybe.
If i am then messed about they have 1 to 2 chances to put it right if not I'm off to spend my hard earned elsewhere.
Ethics should IMO be correct, not F-you, we can change our mind who gets what etc!
Whilst I appreciate that we live in a RHD country an RHD car would be ideal, why not simply buy LHD?
I have LHD cars and I am very happy to drive them here. It's not for everyone, I appreciate that, but it is the same car, and you could even argue that LHD is the way God intended for a Porsche!
The prices in Europe are truly compelling and for me it has become a no-brainer. The costs saving massively outweighs any inconvenience at the parking machines...
I have LHD cars and I am very happy to drive them here. It's not for everyone, I appreciate that, but it is the same car, and you could even argue that LHD is the way God intended for a Porsche!
The prices in Europe are truly compelling and for me it has become a no-brainer. The costs saving massively outweighs any inconvenience at the parking machines...
Mark A S said:
Is it just me being a bit of a dinosaur here but would it not be in Porsche's best interest NOT to piss clients off ?
If I order/pay for something etc i expect a definite answer, whether that be a yes, no or a maybe.
If i am then messed about they have 1 to 2 chances to put it right if not I'm off to spend my hard earned elsewhere.
Ethics should IMO be correct, not F-you, we can change our mind who gets what etc!
As I understand it, the order book has not been open to this point, only customer/dealer interactions, not customer/Porsche GB contracts. So, no broken contracts, just salesman promises.If I order/pay for something etc i expect a definite answer, whether that be a yes, no or a maybe.
If i am then messed about they have 1 to 2 chances to put it right if not I'm off to spend my hard earned elsewhere.
Ethics should IMO be correct, not F-you, we can change our mind who gets what etc!
Also, who would you rather p*ss off? Folks looking to land a free halo model for six months, then roll it onwards for a profit, or proven high margin product buyers who would be less than impressed to find their halo model suddenly becoming the norm, thus losing a)the cachet of the car and b) the residuals?
AdvocatusD said:
Whilst I appreciate that we live in a RHD country an RHD car would be ideal, why not simply buy LHD?
I have LHD cars and I am very happy to drive them here. It's not for everyone, I appreciate that, but it is the same car, and you could even argue that LHD is the way God intended for a Porsche!
The prices in Europe are truly compelling and for me it has become a no-brainer. The costs saving massively outweighs any inconvenience at the parking machines...
Indeed! And with LHD you then even have a proper driving position with enough legroom--can be a problem in RHD and not just with Porsche.I have LHD cars and I am very happy to drive them here. It's not for everyone, I appreciate that, but it is the same car, and you could even argue that LHD is the way God intended for a Porsche!
The prices in Europe are truly compelling and for me it has become a no-brainer. The costs saving massively outweighs any inconvenience at the parking machines...
The way I see it is that Porsche do not make the GT cars for first time buyers and are certainly not looking for the man/woman on the street to walk in and buy one just because they've seen one in the showroom window. The only first time buyers they're interested in are those that want to buy the normal carreras, boxsters, cayennes, etc.
They make GT and RS cars as a marketing and development exercise and simply because they can. They know that they have a loyal base of customers that will buy them all up if they are given the option. So it's a win win for Porsche. In order to be one of these customers you need to climb up the ladder that leads to new GT/RS owner status. That probably means starting at the bottom of buying your first cooking model from an OPC, upgrading on a regular basis, adding a cayenne/panamera runabout and buying the latest model each time it's launched (e.g. not waiting to see how the latest 911 generation is received before ordering one).
Getting on and climbing the ladder is probably a long and expensive process before you get to the stage where you're invited to buy a new GT car. I guess you could jump to the top of the ladder if you're one of those people who had never bought a new Porsche before but could afford their first one to be a Carrera GT or a 918.
Those of us that cannot afford to get on and climb the ladder (I say this as one of these) just have to accept that we have to wait for the GT/RS cars to become available on the used market and even if we get a used one, we still won't be on the ladder for a new one. Unfortunately, it now looks like the used ones are not going to depreciate like they used to because there is now so much 'want' for the GT/RS cars.
Every now and again Porsche throw out a 'clubsport' type of model like the 968CS, boxster spyder and cayman R which they seem to be quite happy to sell on a first come first served basis. So there's still some hope that your first Porsche could be a little bit more special than a standard model.
They make GT and RS cars as a marketing and development exercise and simply because they can. They know that they have a loyal base of customers that will buy them all up if they are given the option. So it's a win win for Porsche. In order to be one of these customers you need to climb up the ladder that leads to new GT/RS owner status. That probably means starting at the bottom of buying your first cooking model from an OPC, upgrading on a regular basis, adding a cayenne/panamera runabout and buying the latest model each time it's launched (e.g. not waiting to see how the latest 911 generation is received before ordering one).
Getting on and climbing the ladder is probably a long and expensive process before you get to the stage where you're invited to buy a new GT car. I guess you could jump to the top of the ladder if you're one of those people who had never bought a new Porsche before but could afford their first one to be a Carrera GT or a 918.
Those of us that cannot afford to get on and climb the ladder (I say this as one of these) just have to accept that we have to wait for the GT/RS cars to become available on the used market and even if we get a used one, we still won't be on the ladder for a new one. Unfortunately, it now looks like the used ones are not going to depreciate like they used to because there is now so much 'want' for the GT/RS cars.
Every now and again Porsche throw out a 'clubsport' type of model like the 968CS, boxster spyder and cayman R which they seem to be quite happy to sell on a first come first served basis. So there's still some hope that your first Porsche could be a little bit more special than a standard model.
I'm so bored with this crap. Porsche make limited run cars and always have. The same as other manufacturers. The fact that more people want them now as they are everyday useable and amazing value means there is more demand for a limited product.
If you went to an OPC and thought you were getting a car but now aren't that is down to the OPC, NOT Porsche. Complain about YOUR OPC, not Porsche. My salesman asked me last year if I would want a GT4, I said yes, So I'm first on the list. I've owned 7 GT cars to date and 11 Porsches in total. They sell to people who they have the best relationships with and/or buy the most stock. They are a business. If you have bought lots of pork but still didn't get one then somebody buys more than you. Get over it.
If you went to an OPC and thought you were getting a car but now aren't that is down to the OPC, NOT Porsche. Complain about YOUR OPC, not Porsche. My salesman asked me last year if I would want a GT4, I said yes, So I'm first on the list. I've owned 7 GT cars to date and 11 Porsches in total. They sell to people who they have the best relationships with and/or buy the most stock. They are a business. If you have bought lots of pork but still didn't get one then somebody buys more than you. Get over it.
DMC2 said:
Complain about YOUR OPC, not Porsche
Hmm - if Porsche made an adequate supply of UK specification cars available, nobody would be complaining about anything would they. Porsche themselves are very much the root of the problem - more so with the GT4 (where there is availability in overseas markets for delivery this summer) than the 991RS (which if it hasn't sold out globally by today, will have by next week). Even where production capacity is constrained, it is Porsche who allocate volumes by territory, so it is either Porsche GB not making an adequate case for a larger allocation or Porsche AG for denying it anyway. If they had cars to sell you, the OPCs would all be very happy to do so.
All that said - I am looking forward to when the dust settles and we find out how much of the production actually came here. Will it be more like the 15%+ of the 996RS and 991GT3 or closer to the 4.5% of 4 litre 997 RSs...? That knowledge would give some context to how justified all of the burning torches and pitchforks really are.
DiscoColin said:
Hmm - if Porsche made an adequate supply of UK specification cars available, nobody would be complaining about anything would they. Porsche themselves are very much the root of the problem - more so with the GT4 (where there is availability in overseas markets for delivery this summer) than the 991RS (which if it hasn't sold out globally by today, will have by next week). Even where production capacity is constrained, it is Porsche who allocate volumes by territory, so it is either Porsche GB not making an adequate case for a larger allocation or Porsche AG for denying it anyway.
If they had cars to sell you, the OPCs would all be very happy to do so.
All that said - I am looking forward to when the dust settles and we find out how much of the production actually came here. Will it be more like the 15%+ of the 996RS and 991GT3 or closer to the 4.5% of 4 litre 997 RSs...? That knowledge would give some context to how justified all of the burning torches and pitchforks really are.
But it is a LIMITED model. Not limited by numbers, limited by their ability to manufacture anymore cars.If they had cars to sell you, the OPCs would all be very happy to do so.
All that said - I am looking forward to when the dust settles and we find out how much of the production actually came here. Will it be more like the 15%+ of the 996RS and 991GT3 or closer to the 4.5% of 4 litre 997 RSs...? That knowledge would give some context to how justified all of the burning torches and pitchforks really are.
AdvocatusD said:
Whilst I appreciate that we live in a RHD country an RHD car would be ideal, why not simply buy LHD?
I have LHD cars and I am very happy to drive them here. It's not for everyone, I appreciate that, but it is the same car, and you could even argue that LHD is the way God intended for a Porsche!
The prices in Europe are truly compelling and for me it has become a no-brainer. The costs saving massively outweighs any inconvenience at the parking machines...
Yep, I think you are onto something there. And looking at the EUR/GBP exchange rate, its only going one way at the moment.I have LHD cars and I am very happy to drive them here. It's not for everyone, I appreciate that, but it is the same car, and you could even argue that LHD is the way God intended for a Porsche!
The prices in Europe are truly compelling and for me it has become a no-brainer. The costs saving massively outweighs any inconvenience at the parking machines...
Carl_Docklands said:
AdvocatusD said:
Whilst I appreciate that we live in a RHD country an RHD car would be ideal, why not simply buy LHD?
I have LHD cars and I am very happy to drive them here. It's not for everyone, I appreciate that, but it is the same car, and you could even argue that LHD is the way God intended for a Porsche!
The prices in Europe are truly compelling and for me it has become a no-brainer. The costs saving massively outweighs any inconvenience at the parking machines...
Yep, I think you are onto something there. And looking at the EUR/GBP exchange rate, its only going one way at the moment.I have LHD cars and I am very happy to drive them here. It's not for everyone, I appreciate that, but it is the same car, and you could even argue that LHD is the way God intended for a Porsche!
The prices in Europe are truly compelling and for me it has become a no-brainer. The costs saving massively outweighs any inconvenience at the parking machines...
DMC2 said:
I'm so bored with this crap. Porsche make limited run cars and always have. The same as other manufacturers. The fact that more people want them now as they are everyday useable and amazing value means there is more demand for a limited product.
If you went to an OPC and thought you were getting a car but now aren't that is down to the OPC, NOT Porsche. Complain about YOUR OPC, not Porsche. My salesman asked me last year if I would want a GT4, I said yes, So I'm first on the list. I've owned 7 GT cars to date and 11 Porsches in total. They sell to people who they have the best relationships with and/or buy the most stock. They are a business. If you have bought lots of pork but still didn't get one then somebody buys more than you. Get over it.
My first ever Porsche is a new 991GT3...Was I lucky then??..Obviously, mega lucky..If you went to an OPC and thought you were getting a car but now aren't that is down to the OPC, NOT Porsche. Complain about YOUR OPC, not Porsche. My salesman asked me last year if I would want a GT4, I said yes, So I'm first on the list. I've owned 7 GT cars to date and 11 Porsches in total. They sell to people who they have the best relationships with and/or buy the most stock. They are a business. If you have bought lots of pork but still didn't get one then somebody buys more than you. Get over it.
DMC2 said:
DiscoColin said:
Hmm - if Porsche made an adequate supply of UK specification cars available, nobody would be complaining about anything would they. Porsche themselves are very much the root of the problem - more so with the GT4 (where there is availability in overseas markets for delivery this summer) than the 991RS (which if it hasn't sold out globally by today, will have by next week). Even where production capacity is constrained, it is Porsche who allocate volumes by territory, so it is either Porsche GB not making an adequate case for a larger allocation or Porsche AG for denying it anyway.
If they had cars to sell you, the OPCs would all be very happy to do so.
All that said - I am looking forward to when the dust settles and we find out how much of the production actually came here. Will it be more like the 15%+ of the 996RS and 991GT3 or closer to the 4.5% of 4 litre 997 RSs...? That knowledge would give some context to how justified all of the burning torches and pitchforks really are.
But it is a LIMITED model. Not limited by numbers, limited by their ability to manufacture anymore cars.If they had cars to sell you, the OPCs would all be very happy to do so.
All that said - I am looking forward to when the dust settles and we find out how much of the production actually came here. Will it be more like the 15%+ of the 996RS and 991GT3 or closer to the 4.5% of 4 litre 997 RSs...? That knowledge would give some context to how justified all of the burning torches and pitchforks really are.
It is not a function of production capacity whether a car rolling down the line is a C00, C98, C16 or whatever. It is a function of Porsche that they dictate that C16 orders can only be placed with UK OPCs and each only gets a limited number to sell. So UK OPCs can only sell so many cars and non-UK OPCS cannot sell UK spec cars from their domestic allocation either. That has nothing to do with how L I M I T E D the model is and only serves to inflate residuals for the benefit of those are getting cars for short term ownership. There is probably some kind of restriction of trade going on here (though not anything that is likely to be tested in court).
The only people served by this situation are people getting cars in constrained markets on an expectation of short term value appreciation who aren't really buying them for medium-long term use. Given how many cars you buy, that is possibly to some extent you? Would you be buying yours if it was likely to depreciate by a hefty 5 figure number as you drove it off the forecourt? Maybe you would, but I would hypothesise that there are plenty of buyers (and indeed potential buyers frothing at the mouth over not being able to get cars) for these things that wouldn't. It is a self perpetuating cycle - demand is fuelled by lack of supply which results in a buck to be made which fuels demand which further chokes supply... Where it ultimately ends is that all of the first owners of limited cars are investors and hardly anyone ever ends up driving them.
Lets take a look at history. When the 997.1RS was launched there was active marketing. Possible customers got sent the information and glossy pictures and any who were tempted could contact their dealer and order a car. What you would be buying was the slowest depreciating Porsche that they made, but it was still going to cost you to own it and speculation was negligible. Then came the 997.2 GT3. Same. Then there was the 997.2RS with far fewer cars available to the UK market such that some previous owners (as well as new and prospective ones) were frozen out of the new model. Then the speculation began, although even those cars did depreciate a little for a time. Then there was the 4 litre and it went into meltdown. The 991 GT3 was much closer to a return to civilisation as anybody who ordered one when it was announced ended up with a car (albeit many of them had to wait 18 months from ordering before actually driving it) with those late to the party being the bulk of the disaffected.
Where it gets interesting though is that with the Cayman GT4 the market is untested. Will people pay over list for a second hand Cayman when they can get a second hand LHD 997.2 GT3 for less? It it is good enough, maybe. Only Maybe. That will be the interesting part, though it does champion the agenda of people speccing their new car for the person that they hope to eventually sell it to... We shall see.
DMC2 said:
I'm so bored with this crap. Porsche make limited run cars and always have. The same as other manufacturers. The fact that more people want them now as they are everyday useable and amazing value means there is more demand for a limited product.
If you went to an OPC and thought you were getting a car but now aren't that is down to the OPC, NOT Porsche. Complain about YOUR OPC, not Porsche. My salesman asked me last year if I would want a GT4, I said yes, So I'm first on the list. I've owned 7 GT cars to date and 11 Porsches in total. They sell to people who they have the best relationships with and/or buy the most stock. They are a business. If you have bought lots of pork but still didn't get one then somebody buys more than you. Get over it.
Why so tired, you're getting Noddy's car anyway aren't you? If you went to an OPC and thought you were getting a car but now aren't that is down to the OPC, NOT Porsche. Complain about YOUR OPC, not Porsche. My salesman asked me last year if I would want a GT4, I said yes, So I'm first on the list. I've owned 7 GT cars to date and 11 Porsches in total. They sell to people who they have the best relationships with and/or buy the most stock. They are a business. If you have bought lots of pork but still didn't get one then somebody buys more than you. Get over it.
I do think most of the vitriol is down to the fact that currently we are in a price bubble and those that can't get a car are extra pissed because of the missed opportunity to make a few quid. It is also a phenomenon that's uk biased and why PGB couldn't put a few more in the mix we don't know. Maybe they are asking but the factory is saying we need that production capacity for other, more profitable, stuff.
I seem to remember an anecdote from Ferrari that said something along the lines of always sell one less than the market desires... In this case, for the UK, it seems porsche may be taking that to the extreme....
I seem to remember an anecdote from Ferrari that said something along the lines of always sell one less than the market desires... In this case, for the UK, it seems porsche may be taking that to the extreme....
Never had a Porsche before let lone a new one. Opted for an Evora over C4S last time out.
My OPC was honest, wrote to me and said 100% won't get a GT4 this year but will early next so I must be the exception to the rule? Either that or I have such a cute ass that I will be getting a sit in the DPs need just before I submit final spec?
If your OPC isn't playing ball other option is to master the art of anal milking and pay the DP a visit - you'd have a friend for life then ;-)
My OPC was honest, wrote to me and said 100% won't get a GT4 this year but will early next so I must be the exception to the rule? Either that or I have such a cute ass that I will be getting a sit in the DPs need just before I submit final spec?
If your OPC isn't playing ball other option is to master the art of anal milking and pay the DP a visit - you'd have a friend for life then ;-)
Just come back from Geneva, worst fears came true, the GT4 looked the nuts sat there on the stand, I was shocked that even the GT3 RS sat next to it did not overshadow it. I would say there was equal interest in each car.
Shame I couldn't buy either car, they looked simply stunning.
488 looks identical to the 458, back end slightly different but from the front you would struggle to tell.
R8 was underwhelming, Im sure it goes well though.
New McLaren looked like the others, but again Im sure It goes very well. Same trick as the 488, same car from all angles as the 650 apart from the backside.
NSX was very pretty, should have enough to worry the big boys again.
Car of the show for me, Ford GT40, WOW what a machine. Hats off Ford, that is an amazing looking machine, never seen anything like it. All my mates with today all voted the same way too. Hmmmmmm, how much are they again??
Shame I couldn't buy either car, they looked simply stunning.
488 looks identical to the 458, back end slightly different but from the front you would struggle to tell.
R8 was underwhelming, Im sure it goes well though.
New McLaren looked like the others, but again Im sure It goes very well. Same trick as the 488, same car from all angles as the 650 apart from the backside.
NSX was very pretty, should have enough to worry the big boys again.
Car of the show for me, Ford GT40, WOW what a machine. Hats off Ford, that is an amazing looking machine, never seen anything like it. All my mates with today all voted the same way too. Hmmmmmm, how much are they again??
CarNutJob said:
Just come back from Geneva, worst fears came true, the GT4 looked the nuts sat there on the stand, I was shocked that even the GT3 RS sat next to it did not overshadow it. I would say there was equal interest in each car.
Shame I couldn't buy either car, they looked simply stunning.
488 looks identical to the 458, back end slightly different but from the front you would struggle to tell.
R8 was underwhelming, Im sure it goes well though.
New McLaren looked like the others, but again Im sure It goes very well. Same trick as the 488, same car from all angles as the 650 apart from the backside.
NSX was very pretty, should have enough to worry the big boys again.
Car of the show for me, Ford GT40, WOW what a machine. Hats off Ford, that is an amazing looking machine, never seen anything like it. All my mates with today all voted the same way too. Hmmmmmm, how much are they again??
Thanks for the review, but thats just looks yes?Shame I couldn't buy either car, they looked simply stunning.
488 looks identical to the 458, back end slightly different but from the front you would struggle to tell.
R8 was underwhelming, Im sure it goes well though.
New McLaren looked like the others, but again Im sure It goes very well. Same trick as the 488, same car from all angles as the 650 apart from the backside.
NSX was very pretty, should have enough to worry the big boys again.
Car of the show for me, Ford GT40, WOW what a machine. Hats off Ford, that is an amazing looking machine, never seen anything like it. All my mates with today all voted the same way too. Hmmmmmm, how much are they again??
mollytherocker said:
CarNutJob said:
Just come back from Geneva, worst fears came true, the GT4 looked the nuts sat there on the stand, I was shocked that even the GT3 RS sat next to it did not overshadow it. I would say there was equal interest in each car.
Shame I couldn't buy either car, they looked simply stunning.
488 looks identical to the 458, back end slightly different but from the front you would struggle to tell.
R8 was underwhelming, Im sure it goes well though.
New McLaren looked like the others, but again Im sure It goes very well. Same trick as the 488, same car from all angles as the 650 apart from the backside.
NSX was very pretty, should have enough to worry the big boys again.
Car of the show for me, Ford GT40, WOW what a machine. Hats off Ford, that is an amazing looking machine, never seen anything like it. All my mates with today all voted the same way too. Hmmmmmm, how much are they again??
Thanks for the review, but thats just looks yes?Shame I couldn't buy either car, they looked simply stunning.
488 looks identical to the 458, back end slightly different but from the front you would struggle to tell.
R8 was underwhelming, Im sure it goes well though.
New McLaren looked like the others, but again Im sure It goes very well. Same trick as the 488, same car from all angles as the 650 apart from the backside.
NSX was very pretty, should have enough to worry the big boys again.
Car of the show for me, Ford GT40, WOW what a machine. Hats off Ford, that is an amazing looking machine, never seen anything like it. All my mates with today all voted the same way too. Hmmmmmm, how much are they again??
mollytherocker said:
CarNutJob said:
Yes, they don't let you drive them at the show!
I know. I am just making the point that looks are only a component part of a car.
d, it probably goes like one too, and the GT40 looked like a psychotic axe murderer. Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff