991 GT3 Hype

[Tom911]

nsm3 said:

Frank (the Ronin) is American and their idea of a 'properly tuned Exige', may make you rethink that?

eg this?

[PPPPPP]

APOLO1 said:

991 GT3 and 991 Turbo S, are 2 completely different cars........

Money aside, the Turbo S gets my vote - and that includes occasional track days. If track days days a priority, the GT3 is preferred but even more so - the upcoming GT4, at half the cost & manual.

Today's GT3 has a broader scope - sort of falling between two stools imho.

[sidicks]

PPPPPP said:

Money aside, the Turbo S gets my vote - and that includes occasional track days. If track days days a priority, the GT3 is preferred but even more so - the upcoming GT4, at half the cost & manual.

Today's GT3 has a broader scope - sort of falling between two stools imho.

As a reminder, you've not driven any of these cars, have you?

[DT398]

I

NAS90 said:

991 Turbo S and GT3 are certainly capable cars, I have driven both extensively on various tracks, including Leipzig, Istanbul Park, YAS Marina, amongst others and both can produce quite similar lap times on those circuits but are very different in the way they need to be driven in order to achieve the best times.

As to the comment that there's no real skill in driving a 991 GT3 really really fast...... seriously? I think you need to refer back to Andrew D's comment about planet Zogg!

Yes the 991 GT3 is hugely capable car and isn't especially hard to drive at a reasonable pace on a good circuit, but to drive it at its considerable limits takes a great deal of skill, precision and no small about of balls; on one of the above mentioned tracks you are turning in at over 210kph to a 90 degree right in the GT3 and if you get that wrong by 30cms you will be in for one of the biggest track accidents you will ever walk away from, so I am sorry but....... to say there is no skill is utter nonsense!

The more capable a car is, the faster it can be driven on any given surface and to control it on the limit takes greater skill sets and faster reactions, if you don't know that I hope I am never on a track anywhere near you when you are driving 'really really fast'

As for the original poster, who reckons he learnt enough in 24 hours to condemn the GT3, you must be a rare talent behind the wheel my friend as it took me a good deal longer than that to explore the road & track limits of the 991 GT3 and I do it for a living!

That all sounds fair enough, but I don't think you are representative of the typical capability of the drivers of these cars. Most of us are average drivers (by definition) and I supsect you are probably not. A lot of us will not spend very much time at all in our cars anywhere near the limit. I also agree that we should not spend too much time occupying the same space on the track as our differences in speed would be considerable, I think . Maybe I should have said "not especially hard to drive at a reasonable pace" and that would have been more realistic. I'll get my coat now.....

[the ronin]

I'm just an old geezer that has learned enough after 40 yrs of driving the canyons at speed to know what really works and what is marketing hype...
My old supercharged Exige beats a GT3 around Willow Springs Raceway by over a second on worn street tires with only 290 whp and Willow is a high speed track..I also know there is no GT3 that can even come close in the canyons where midrange torque is needed on corner exit. The GT3 has none.
The Turbo S does...

Building and driving a 680whp 1,700 canyon rocket sled that corners as if it is on rails tells me what works and what is hype....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3lmeFi5J6Y

I bought into the hype and wanted to believe really I did but I was lucky enough to swap back the hype for something that really works.
I know guys that pay big bucks for crap will never admit they are wrong and so they smile on the outside all the while frowning on the inside...
Keep telling everyone how good it is and keeping the mileage low for that resale is key to GT3 ownership....

I just got back from another 180mi. canyon run in the best dam Porsche ever made... 991 Turbo S

[sidicks]

the ronin said:

I'm just an old geezer that has learned enough after 40 yrs of driving the canyons at speed to know what really works and what is marketing hype...
My old supercharged Exige beats a GT3 around Willow Springs Raceway by over a second on worn street tires with only 290 whp and Willow is a high speed track..I also know there is no GT3 that can even come close in the canyons where midrange torque is needed on corner exit. The GT3 has none.
The Turbo S does...

Sounds like you were in the wrong gear....

the ronin said:

Building and driving a 680whp 1,700 canyon rocket sled that corners as if it is on rails tells me what works and what is hype....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3lmeFi5J6Y

'corners on rails' - no cliches here...

the ronin said:

I bought into the hype and wanted to believe really I did but I was lucky enough to swap back the hype for something that really works.
I know guys that pay big bucks for crap will never admit they are wrong and so they smile on the outside all the while frowning on the inside...
Keep telling everyone how good it is and keeping the mileage low for that resale is key to GT3 ownership....

I just got back from another 180mi. canyon run in the best dam Porsche ever made... 991 Turbo S

I can assure you that most of us owners are very much enjoying the GT3 (and find the Turbo S extremely fast but bland). Resale advantages are an additional bonus.

Enjoy the Lotus forum...

Edited by sidicks on Saturday 28th March 21:19

[the ronin]

Tom911 said:

nsm3 said:

Frank (the Ronin) is American and their idea of a 'properly tuned Exige', may make you rethink that?

eg this?

Not that crap....
This is a properly tuned Elise/Exige/Ronin RS211

[the ronin]

sidicks said:

the ronin said:

I'm just an old geezer that has learned enough after 40 yrs of driving the canyons at speed to know what really works and what is marketing hype...
My old supercharged Exige beats a GT3 around Willow Springs Raceway by over a second on worn street tires with only 290 whp and Willow is a high speed track..I also know there is no GT3 that can even come close in the canyons where midrange torque is needed on corner exit. The GT3 has none.
The Turbo S does... 553 ft tq...vs...325 ft tq

Building and driving a 680whp 1,700 canyon rocket sled that corners as if it is on rails tells me what works and what is hype....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3lmeFi5J6Y

I bought into the hype and wanted to believe really I did but I was lucky enough to swap back the hype for something that really works.
I know guys that pay big bucks for crap will never admit they are wrong and so they smile on the outside all the while frowning on the inside...
Keep telling everyone how good it is and keeping the mileage low for that resale is key to GT3 ownership....

I just got back from another 180mi. canyon run in the best dam Porsche ever made... 991 Turbo S

Enjoy the Lotus forum...

I do... and I really like my 991 Turbo S with it's 553 ft tq at 2,100rpm...vs...325 ft tq at 6,250rpm of the GT3

Edited by the ronin on Saturday 28th March 21:26

[mollytherocker]

This thread illustrates exactly why Porsche make the GT3 and Turbo. Two completely different markets.

The are very different cars, always have been. Real drivers know which is the proper car.

[the ronin]

mollytherocker said:

This thread illustrates exactly why Porsche make the GT3 and Turbo. Two completely different markets.

The are very different cars, always have been. Real drivers know which is the proper car.

Thank you...

[sidicks]

the ronin said:

Thank you...

[the ronin]

sidicks said:

the ronin said:

Thank you...

Just like this.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mO6UFGQ-MQ

Edited by the ronin on Saturday 28th March 21:38

[RDMcG]

I have never felt very prescriptive about what other people should buy. Want a Turbo?..good. GT3? fine. Prefer manual to PDK?...why not. In the end of the day the variety of what motivates cars buyers is endless. The "real driver" argument to me seems like a lot of willy-waving.

Personally, I rate myself as track-competent, not competitive, but i enjoy the experience of a few track days a year. Logically I do not need a GT3RS, but i like them and enjoy the experience of driving them. There is a very strong argument that the premium in price is not matched by a premium in performance, which is true. In the end though, it just feels a bit more special and I am picking up my third one in Zuffenhausen in September, will run it in and do my usual trip to Spa and the NS.

If people prefer an Elise, Corvette, Ferrari or anything else, they'll get no criticism from me. Its their money. If an excellent driver in an objectively slower car passes me, it does not crush my ego. Its just about having some fun on the track, not being a gladiator.

Edited by RDMcG on Saturday 28th March 21:47

[cheddar]

I agree with Ronin, every single journalist is wrong about the GT3, every glowing article is farcical nonsense and hyperbole, it's a rubbish car which explains the proliferation of after market tuners fitting 4wd and twin turbo's in an attempt to offset the embarrassment of owning a standard example with its paltry torque, diabolical road manners and hideous depreciation.

No need to thank me Ronin.

[sidicks]

cheddar said:

I agree with Ronin, every single journalist is wrong about the GT3, every glowing article is farcical nonsense and hyperbole, it's a rubbish car which explains the proliferation of after market tuners fitting 4wd and twin turbo's in an attempt to offset the embarrassment of owning a standard example with its paltry torque, diabolical road manners and hideous depreciation.

No need to thank me Ronin.

[the ronin]

And now except for a rare few are the very typical Porsche owners response mechanism at work...

I said the 991 GT3 sucks in the canyons and in general as a road car.... and all those journalists are wrong in my opinion since I doubt any bought a new 991 GT3 as a daily driver..

I killed a few bugs this morning how about you GT3 guys ?



But thanks for the warm welcome on the General Porsche forum....
Everything said about 99.999% of Porsche owners is true..

Cheers

[sidicks]

the ronin said:

And now except for a rare few are the very typical Porsche owners response mechanism at work...

I said the 991 GT3 sucks in the canyons and in general as a road car.... and all those journalists are wrong in my opinion since I doubt any bought a new 991 GT3 as a daily driver..

IMO the 991 GT3 can be used as a daily driver but that is not its forte. I agree that the Turbo might make a better daily driver. Most of us 991 GT3 owners did not buy the GT3 to be used as a daily driver - it's far more special than that.

However it is an extremely accomplished road car, and driven properly, can provide a huge amount of entertainment. In the right gear performance is on a par with the Turbo - the key difference is how you drive it and your comment about a 'lack of torque' suggests you tried to drive it in the same way as the Turbo S, which would explain a lot.

Of course the Turbo with 4WD has greater grip - again the key with the GT3 is to manage the grip appropriately,

the ronin said:

But thanks for the warm welcome on the General Porsche forum....
Everything said about 99.999% of Porsche owners is true..

Cheers

[AndrewD]

nsm3 said:

Frank (the Ronin) is American and their idea of a 'properly tuned Exige', may make you rethink that?

Not really. Cgaf. The world is full of bitsas.

[fioran0]

Here is Frank (the Ronin) and his car (not the GT3 or the Turbo S) on Jay Leno's Garage. It's quite an interesting car that he built so worth a watch.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2dbd0z_ronin-rs-...

[sidicks]

fioran0 said:

Here is Frank (the Ronin) and his car (not the GT3 or the Turbo S) on Jay Leno's Garage. It's quite an interesting car that he built so worth a watch.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2dbd0z_ronin-rs-...

Interesting, thanks!