the 918 vs P1 vid is now live today, (the motortrend one)
Discussion
IMIA said:
very wise move those that bought the porker - i was underwhelmed by the p1 in the flesh at vmax
think every one was.. looks tired now imv, did you see all the big gaps around the rear defuser , look like they forgot to put one on, imv.very fast car though, but not fast enough so it seems,
braddo said:
The thread about this in general gassing mentions that the 918's pace was akin to "qualifying pace" (single fast lap only, followed by a gentler lap for recharging), whereas the P1 could maintain that single lap pace over multiple laps.
I haven't watched this vid or read the article but have there been any tests that look at the cars' pace over, say, 5 laps of a typical circuit?
I ran on sat form 9.30 to 1.30 all in HL mode, for this very purpose, e- juice lasted 3.5hrs before requiring a r-gen, trip to 1st garage away form track and they were 100% re charged.I haven't watched this vid or read the article but have there been any tests that look at the cars' pace over, say, 5 laps of a typical circuit?
Not only was I going 9.5/10s on the runway, but I was also doing LCs on the side roads, on the way back to the start point, see vid, so virtually zero re-gen for time at the track
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1015308441495...
Edited by APOLO1 on Thursday 2nd April 08:18
APOLO1 said:
IMIA said:
very wise move those that bought the porker - i was underwhelmed by the p1 in the flesh at vmax
think every one was.. looks tired now imv, did you see all the big gaps around the rear defuser , look like they forgot to put one on, imv.very fast car though, but not fast enough so it seems,
Didn't even like the La F (which in pics looks stunning but in the flesh looked a bit narrow and gauky (perhaps the Enzo there was taking the shine away from the La F but I'd be mildly over the moon if Ferrari forgot to give me an invitation to buy one) although the rear end is nice nod to the older racing cars - 330 P)
Using common sense we should all have know as Porsche engineering has always been second to none and as part of VAG group they have access to virtually unlimited resources especially hybrid/battery tech which is probably best in the world. Whats more important is how they go in real life and the 918 looked like it was super glued to the road in terrible conditions with rocket boosters for power lol
IMIA said:
I was mauled by the Maccalytes on PH for suggesting a P1 is a 12C in drag. IMO having seen it and taken a good look around it thats exactly what it is for £1m a pop.......
Didn't even like the La F (which in pics looks stunning but in the flesh looked a bit narrow and gauky (perhaps the Enzo there was taking the shine away from the La F but I'd be mildly over the moon if Ferrari forgot to give me an invitation to buy one) although the rear end is nice nod to the older racing cars - 330 P)
Using common sense we should all have know as Porsche engineering has always been second to none and as part of VAG group they have access to virtually unlimited resources especially hybrid/battery tech which is probably best in the world. Whats more important is how they go in real life and the 918 looked like it was super glued to the road in terrible conditions with rocket boosters for power lol
I could have had a very early P1, but within 2 mins of looking round the car, it struck me having had 2 x 12cs at the time, that this was not about the car from a price thing, all about repaying loans.....imvDidn't even like the La F (which in pics looks stunning but in the flesh looked a bit narrow and gauky (perhaps the Enzo there was taking the shine away from the La F but I'd be mildly over the moon if Ferrari forgot to give me an invitation to buy one) although the rear end is nice nod to the older racing cars - 330 P)
Using common sense we should all have know as Porsche engineering has always been second to none and as part of VAG group they have access to virtually unlimited resources especially hybrid/battery tech which is probably best in the world. Whats more important is how they go in real life and the 918 looked like it was super glued to the road in terrible conditions with rocket boosters for power lol
APOLO1 said:
IMIA said:
I was mauled by the Maccalytes on PH for suggesting a P1 is a 12C in drag. IMO having seen it and taken a good look around it thats exactly what it is for £1m a pop.......
Didn't even like the La F (which in pics looks stunning but in the flesh looked a bit narrow and gauky (perhaps the Enzo there was taking the shine away from the La F but I'd be mildly over the moon if Ferrari forgot to give me an invitation to buy one) although the rear end is nice nod to the older racing cars - 330 P)
Using common sense we should all have know as Porsche engineering has always been second to none and as part of VAG group they have access to virtually unlimited resources especially hybrid/battery tech which is probably best in the world. Whats more important is how they go in real life and the 918 looked like it was super glued to the road in terrible conditions with rocket boosters for power lol
I could have had a very early P1, but within 2 mins of looking round the car, it struck me having had 2 x 12cs at the time, that this was not about the car from a price thing, all about repaying loans.....imvDidn't even like the La F (which in pics looks stunning but in the flesh looked a bit narrow and gauky (perhaps the Enzo there was taking the shine away from the La F but I'd be mildly over the moon if Ferrari forgot to give me an invitation to buy one) although the rear end is nice nod to the older racing cars - 330 P)
Using common sense we should all have know as Porsche engineering has always been second to none and as part of VAG group they have access to virtually unlimited resources especially hybrid/battery tech which is probably best in the world. Whats more important is how they go in real life and the 918 looked like it was super glued to the road in terrible conditions with rocket boosters for power lol
IMIA said:
Yes I've heard Ron currently looking for money for sports car operation - amazing that their brand and reputation for excellence is strong enough to sell those for £1m considering the car itself isn't the finest moment.
Respectfully, I don't think the brand is strong at all on the car side, ie, the need to discount......very poor residuals, etcAs for the P1, a lot imv brought into the hype that it was the next F1...lol
As for looking for funds.....
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/mc...
Imo
My comments copied over from the Official YT thread on the video.
"Good to watch - the 918 keeps proving itself although I'm sure on a less 'point & Squirt' track the P1 would probably take it.
It was also interesting how much the tyres on the P1 squish about. Check it out around the 13:50 mark.
Ferrari being all flouncy gussetmongers again. Do they understand it makes them look a tad pathetic?
I'm also warming more and more as to how the Porsche looks. I think playing things a little understated will do them favours in the long term. Both the Ferrari and McLaren look very 'now' but could date them in the long run."
"Good to watch - the 918 keeps proving itself although I'm sure on a less 'point & Squirt' track the P1 would probably take it.
It was also interesting how much the tyres on the P1 squish about. Check it out around the 13:50 mark.
Ferrari being all flouncy gussetmongers again. Do they understand it makes them look a tad pathetic?
I'm also warming more and more as to how the Porsche looks. I think playing things a little understated will do them favours in the long term. Both the Ferrari and McLaren look very 'now' but could date them in the long run."
Asterix said:
My comments copied over from the Official YT thread on the video.
"Good to watch - the 918 keeps proving itself although I'm sure on a less 'point & Squirt' track the P1 would probably take it.
It was also interesting how much the tyres on the P1 squish about. Check it out around the 13:50 mark.
Ferrari being all flouncy gussetmongers again. Do they understand it makes them look a tad pathetic?
I'm also warming more and more as to how the Porsche looks. I think playing things a little understated will do them favours in the long term. Both the Ferrari and McLaren look very 'now' but could date them in the long run."
do not underestimate, mechanical grip, and the likes of a proper LSD, RWS, Torque V....also as those that were there sat will see that the 918 has proper aero...."Good to watch - the 918 keeps proving itself although I'm sure on a less 'point & Squirt' track the P1 would probably take it.
It was also interesting how much the tyres on the P1 squish about. Check it out around the 13:50 mark.
Ferrari being all flouncy gussetmongers again. Do they understand it makes them look a tad pathetic?
I'm also warming more and more as to how the Porsche looks. I think playing things a little understated will do them favours in the long term. Both the Ferrari and McLaren look very 'now' but could date them in the long run."
Just a few months ago everybody pointed at Porsche who had trouble shifting their 918 and had to come up with all sorts of incentives to sell the cars. Weakest car, heaviest car, high build numbers, etc.
I remember that US buyers were offered a direct phone line to one of the Le Mans drivers for "driving tips" and stuff like that. In the last weeks I've read of more than one P1 owner who is looking to sell their McLaren for a 918. Funny how tables turned...
I remember that US buyers were offered a direct phone line to one of the Le Mans drivers for "driving tips" and stuff like that. In the last weeks I've read of more than one P1 owner who is looking to sell their McLaren for a 918. Funny how tables turned...
Edited by EricE on Thursday 2nd April 10:07
EricE said:
Just a few months ago everybody pointed at Porsche who had trouble shifting their 918 and had to come up with all sorts of incentives to sell the cars. Weakest car, heaviest car, high build numbers, etc.
I remember that US buyers were offered a direct like to one of the Le Mans drivers for "driving tips" and stuff like that. In the last weeks I've read of more than one P1 owner who is looking to sell their McLaren for a 918. Funny how tables turned...
can not comment about the US, but in Eu and UK, the sales have been in a orderly manner from day one, ie more take up after test drives, the ring time etc...I remember that US buyers were offered a direct like to one of the Le Mans drivers for "driving tips" and stuff like that. In the last weeks I've read of more than one P1 owner who is looking to sell their McLaren for a 918. Funny how tables turned...
Not surprised about the above, know a few that brought the P1, because they thought it was just that P1.....
Any one think the recent vid on the P1 is coincidence timing wise, taking into account the vid in the OP.......lol....
imo
Edited by APOLO1 on Thursday 2nd April 10:02
...it seems that Mclaren not responding to the 918's 6:57 lap was indicative of a performance shot-coming which may have caught them by surprise.
I think the journalists' focus on power-to-weight ratios saw them consign the 918 to the "nerdy, bespecled, overweight school boy" role of the three "contenders".
It seems that the "nerd" has done his homework & cleaned-up in the Exams!
Increasingly the 918 looks to be significantly more progressive & future-focussed than the Mac & the LF - and that it's quicker into the bargain - both on road & track - together with it's relatively understated looks has moved it up from underdog to top dog.
I think the journalists' focus on power-to-weight ratios saw them consign the 918 to the "nerdy, bespecled, overweight school boy" role of the three "contenders".
It seems that the "nerd" has done his homework & cleaned-up in the Exams!
Increasingly the 918 looks to be significantly more progressive & future-focussed than the Mac & the LF - and that it's quicker into the bargain - both on road & track - together with it's relatively understated looks has moved it up from underdog to top dog.
This is exactly the reason I’ve loved Porsche above any other manufacturer as far back as I can remember.
They don’t build theme parks. They don’t have merchandise shops in shopping malls. They don’t over hype their cars before they launch them. They don’t refuse to let their cars be tested against competitors. And they don't send transporters with specially prepared cars and support crews when their cars are tested.
They just build cars that deliver.
They don’t build theme parks. They don’t have merchandise shops in shopping malls. They don’t over hype their cars before they launch them. They don’t refuse to let their cars be tested against competitors. And they don't send transporters with specially prepared cars and support crews when their cars are tested.
They just build cars that deliver.
When I walked round and sniffed about inside the 918 at Geneva I was flabbergasted by the attention to detail on such a bespoke limited car. Absolutely beautiful and timeless design. Whereas when I saw a local P1 from a distance I did a treble take before I realised it wasn't a 650s. Tacky design and off the shelf components made me laugh at the £1m price tag. I dislike Ferrari intensely so I would never even give the LaF a second glance. 918 is the car of dreams, but I just wonder how the hybrid tech will age in 5 years...
Not sure about Porache needing incentives to sell. I tried to order one last summer, but said it was on condition of 2014 delivery. I was flatly turned down and told that they were on track with orders and didn't need to make concessions. A lot of the incentives came from America where PCNA VIP programme was outside of Porsche Central and gives more priority etc than GB for example.
Got to remember that Porsche sold 918, McL had to reduce to 375. Only 450 Veyrons have ever been sold. No wonder Porsche took a bit longer.
Got to remember that Porsche sold 918, McL had to reduce to 375. Only 450 Veyrons have ever been sold. No wonder Porsche took a bit longer.
Edited by footsoldier on Thursday 2nd April 14:51
It does feel like something doesn't quite add up. If the P1 is a bit more powerful, 200kg lighter, has significantly(?) more downforce and the tyres are equivalent to the 918's, what gives?! 
Is it all about getting the power down on exit of slower corners?
Has Porsche made (quite incredible) inroads to improving the car since its initial launch?
What seems certain is that Porsche's ability to deliver on performance is the best in the world.
Is it all about getting the power down on exit of slower corners?
Has Porsche made (quite incredible) inroads to improving the car since its initial launch?
What seems certain is that Porsche's ability to deliver on performance is the best in the world.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Astonishing result from the calibration team considering all the factors involved. Two electric motors, one combustion engine, battery management and brake recuperation to top it all off.The 918 is the only one of the hypercars with brake energy recuperation and I remember a video where the head developer explained what an immense engineering exercise it is to make the brake pedal feel "natural" and linear at any of the possible operating conditions. Cold brake, hot brake, fresh pads, worn pads, etc.
roadandcar said:
(...)The servo is unique in the hybrid world, with the goal being to maintain an unbroken mechanical
link between your foot and the car's hydraulic system.
There's also something the engineers could only call a "fluid capacitor" mounted in the car's nose. (Translation difficulties abounded during the launch; a
lot of the technology on the 918 was dreamed up for the car by German engineers and thus has no direct correlation in English.) Below 0.5 g of braking
force, the car uses its electric motors in regen capacity to recharge the battery pack. Above 0.5 g, it doesn't. The so-called capacitor, as its name
implies, serves as a fluid reservoir that helps bridge the gap in mode change, allowing pedal feel to remain consistent and predictable no matter what the
car is doing. It does, though you can occasionally sense some pedal weirdness around town, as if the car is trying to second-guess your intentions. But
it's a monumental achievement because the brakes feel largely natural.
Predictably, this required enormous computing and development time. Even now, with production commenced, an engineer who wished to remain unnamed
pronounced the car's brake calibration only "95% done."
(article from 12/2013)
The bright side is that a lot of that engineering will trickle down into the hybrid Porsche road cars. I recall people complaining about a "step" in the first gen Cayenne Hybrid where the kinetic brakes take over, that should be a thing of the past in future models.link between your foot and the car's hydraulic system.
There's also something the engineers could only call a "fluid capacitor" mounted in the car's nose. (Translation difficulties abounded during the launch; a
lot of the technology on the 918 was dreamed up for the car by German engineers and thus has no direct correlation in English.) Below 0.5 g of braking
force, the car uses its electric motors in regen capacity to recharge the battery pack. Above 0.5 g, it doesn't. The so-called capacitor, as its name
implies, serves as a fluid reservoir that helps bridge the gap in mode change, allowing pedal feel to remain consistent and predictable no matter what the
car is doing. It does, though you can occasionally sense some pedal weirdness around town, as if the car is trying to second-guess your intentions. But
it's a monumental achievement because the brakes feel largely natural.
Predictably, this required enormous computing and development time. Even now, with production commenced, an engineer who wished to remain unnamed
pronounced the car's brake calibration only "95% done."
(article from 12/2013)
Neither the P1 nor the Ferrari has brake energy recuperation. I can’t help but wonder if therein lies the key for the faster lap times.
wtdoom said:
When you see the cars together you would think the 918 cost twice the price of the P1 , its night and day quality .
I remember commenting that just looking at pictures of the two gave me the impression the Porsche was of a much higher quality and also being ridiculed at my comment. I'm glad to hear that I was actually right! Edited by wtdoom on Wednesday 1st April 22:21
I was hoping to see my first 918 at the weekend at the Malton breakfast but I don't think I will be able to make that now. I've seen a P1 at McLaren Knutsford and if I'm honest was impressed but wasn't exactly bowled over. I suspect very much that the 918 would do just that...
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