What trackday car
Discussion
I'd like to have a car that i can drive to track and back home rather than have to trailer it.
I tried a caterham briefly and it felt very raw and very exposed!
Its an impossible question but i wonder how much of the enjoyment i had doing trackdays was down to the GT3 - ie would it be as enjoyable in a car not as quick. I guess one has to suck it and see. A 968 sport is well within budget and is the same as the CS under the skin - but will it just feel slow? And will i be a rolling roadblock with all the 911s buzzing around.
I've never driven an Elise or any lotus, nor been on track with them. I'm guessing they must handle really well - do they have the grunt and do they make a nice noise?
Cheers
I tried a caterham briefly and it felt very raw and very exposed!
Its an impossible question but i wonder how much of the enjoyment i had doing trackdays was down to the GT3 - ie would it be as enjoyable in a car not as quick. I guess one has to suck it and see. A 968 sport is well within budget and is the same as the CS under the skin - but will it just feel slow? And will i be a rolling roadblock with all the 911s buzzing around.
I've never driven an Elise or any lotus, nor been on track with them. I'm guessing they must handle really well - do they have the grunt and do they make a nice noise?
Cheers
I got rid of my GT3 and ended up with an R400 Caterham as I wanted a more focused car rather than a "regular" car just sitting in the garage when not being used. What an absolute hoot. I drive it to the track and if the weather is not nice or freezing cold then the roof goes up and the heater on. Very cosy. When the weather is nice , off comes the roof and if the weather is very nice , off comes the windscreen and aeroscreen fitted ( 4 bolts 2 minutes ).
No warranty to worry about, consumables are laughably cheap and the actual driving experience is as raw and feelsome as you could want. Safety wise you can add a decent roll cage and still have the standard roof.
If the actual business of driving and having fun is not your 100% priority then forget all of the above and get yourself a fat lardy tin top that will murder its tyres and brakes at the first corner but allow you to have a heated seat and listen to Classic FM !!!
No warranty to worry about, consumables are laughably cheap and the actual driving experience is as raw and feelsome as you could want. Safety wise you can add a decent roll cage and still have the standard roof.
If the actual business of driving and having fun is not your 100% priority then forget all of the above and get yourself a fat lardy tin top that will murder its tyres and brakes at the first corner but allow you to have a heated seat and listen to Classic FM !!!
it may be too early to buy one (shakedown etc) but the reviews of the new Zenos are excellent. I look at it as a modern Lotus 340R - but with a bombproof engine / drive train etc and a little more user friendly perhaps that a caterham.
Interestingly I have gone the reverse of this thread over the years in terms of trackday toys.
Caterham -> Lotus 340R -> Porsche 968CS -> Lotus Exige 340R -> GT3 with several other unmentionables in between.
Interestingly I have gone the reverse of this thread over the years in terms of trackday toys.
Caterham -> Lotus 340R -> Porsche 968CS -> Lotus Exige 340R -> GT3 with several other unmentionables in between.
340R.. awesome.
Love Caterhams but, in my view, better race cars than track day cars. Got a bit bored of oversteer, oversteer, oversteer. The Elise has a greater depth to it because of the mid-engined layout (in my opinion).
With it's big sills, the Elise is also safer, if it's that of importance to you. That little bit more usable as well.
Love Caterhams but, in my view, better race cars than track day cars. Got a bit bored of oversteer, oversteer, oversteer. The Elise has a greater depth to it because of the mid-engined layout (in my opinion).
With it's big sills, the Elise is also safer, if it's that of importance to you. That little bit more usable as well.
g7jhp said:
Used to be a good site , but thats another story.Coming from the GT3 , anything from R300 down will not excite you if your anything like me. Best bet is to drive one. Dont know where in the country you are but Caterham are in Crawley near Gatwick and the Midlands. Either will let you loose on a test drive in whatever version takes your fancy. Only problem is the budget you have set. Higher powered stuff like R400 etc are circa £30k.
As mentioned above , alternatively for £20k you get a lot of Evo 9 with an easy 400bhp
If you want to try a Caterham then rent one from Jonny at a Book-a-Track trackday, you’ll know by the end of the day whether it’s for you or not. But I defy anyone to spend anytime on track in a Caterham and not enjoy it!
Alternatively, if you want a roof and a more ‘civilised’ commute to and from the track a Lotus would be next on my list.
I’ve owned a few GT3s and loved them, but recently I’ve bought an Exige V6S and it’s really impressed me. It has a similar feel to the GT3 (RS version as well) in terms of communicative steering, responsiveness and control weights etc when pushing on (although the steering is unassisted).
In summary, drive a Caterham, you’ll love it. But, if it’s too much for the trackday commute and you’d like to stay dry in the rain, buy a Lotus. Both are fantastic propositions and both due to their lack of weight will cost considerably less in consumables than heavier cars.
The Caterham will be considerably cheaper to repair if something goes wrong...
Alternatively, if you want a roof and a more ‘civilised’ commute to and from the track a Lotus would be next on my list.
I’ve owned a few GT3s and loved them, but recently I’ve bought an Exige V6S and it’s really impressed me. It has a similar feel to the GT3 (RS version as well) in terms of communicative steering, responsiveness and control weights etc when pushing on (although the steering is unassisted).
In summary, drive a Caterham, you’ll love it. But, if it’s too much for the trackday commute and you’d like to stay dry in the rain, buy a Lotus. Both are fantastic propositions and both due to their lack of weight will cost considerably less in consumables than heavier cars.
The Caterham will be considerably cheaper to repair if something goes wrong...
I bang the track BMW drum simply as for me is very little out there that can compete on bang for buck, low running costs & easy parts availability, an s2 or 968 (not a cs as too pricey now) is similar cost, but a long way off the pace, a 944 turbo not so once fiddled with tho can be vastly quicker, not cheap to achieve tho.
With the right bits a humble m3 track fettled is gt3 pace, OK only a 996.1 pace, not a 97 rs etc, but in track fettled e46 form ( to csl type weight & power but minus the 35k price tag) similar power & weight, a 36 is lacking in grunt but is lighter, 1250 in a cs trim, bit more stripped 1150kg is easily achievable, 1100 harder & v v far down the auto anorexia path.
OK its not do able for your 10k but they can be made v rapid indeed if you fiddle with engine, take Angus old Gus bus, I have figures of Spa 2.43/2.40 in my head, I'll look it up & yes that was in race trim but either way that's indeed at least v fast gt3 pace.
I got out of my caterham into a decent spec E36 trackcar & loved it, OK vs a caterham/lotus/gt3/944/68 the steering is dead (but in track geo its a lot better than in numb road car form) it felt like the caterham with a lid on, abet one over double the weight.
My caterham experience was a tad frustrating, i really wanted SLR/r400 but without the funds, I got similar power & weight with a ex racer & xe power but it wasnt the dream I'd had, that route for me does need a re visit in time tho.
A lotus exige s is a cracker, but its not 10k or even close & if you mean the older Toyota ones, are not the pace of cheaper alternatives without work, lovely nimble things tho.
A Honda'd Elise with the right bits, wow can be a really mega track & v fast road car, a sorted & decent example is not 10k either, but such a great combo, is a path I must go when over my BMW fetish.
PS another reason I like the bimmers, at recent spa & ring trip I took a full set of wets on wheels, a full set of slicks on wheels, 2 spare slicks, trolley jack, basic tools & spares all in the car!
With the right bits a humble m3 track fettled is gt3 pace, OK only a 996.1 pace, not a 97 rs etc, but in track fettled e46 form ( to csl type weight & power but minus the 35k price tag) similar power & weight, a 36 is lacking in grunt but is lighter, 1250 in a cs trim, bit more stripped 1150kg is easily achievable, 1100 harder & v v far down the auto anorexia path.
OK its not do able for your 10k but they can be made v rapid indeed if you fiddle with engine, take Angus old Gus bus, I have figures of Spa 2.43/2.40 in my head, I'll look it up & yes that was in race trim but either way that's indeed at least v fast gt3 pace.
I got out of my caterham into a decent spec E36 trackcar & loved it, OK vs a caterham/lotus/gt3/944/68 the steering is dead (but in track geo its a lot better than in numb road car form) it felt like the caterham with a lid on, abet one over double the weight.
My caterham experience was a tad frustrating, i really wanted SLR/r400 but without the funds, I got similar power & weight with a ex racer & xe power but it wasnt the dream I'd had, that route for me does need a re visit in time tho.
A lotus exige s is a cracker, but its not 10k or even close & if you mean the older Toyota ones, are not the pace of cheaper alternatives without work, lovely nimble things tho.
A Honda'd Elise with the right bits, wow can be a really mega track & v fast road car, a sorted & decent example is not 10k either, but such a great combo, is a path I must go when over my BMW fetish.
PS another reason I like the bimmers, at recent spa & ring trip I took a full set of wets on wheels, a full set of slicks on wheels, 2 spare slicks, trolley jack, basic tools & spares all in the car!
Edited by iguana on Tuesday 14th April 14:17
It's obviously a personal preference thing, but I personally MUCH prefer driving something rawer and less powerful on track, where I can actually get close to exploiting it's potential, rather than just rely on power and electronic to make you look like a hero.
As such, I absolutely LOVE Caterhams, even lower powered ones. I just think there's so much more pleasure to be had wringing the neck of a 140bhp Caterham and making supercars check their mirrors.
All that said, I myself have an R400, so I clearly do enjoy the power side as well! If you can handle the raw nature I really don't think you can get something better for track work.
Happy to talk you through Caterham options etc if you're interested, there's a LOT of info out there and can be a bit overwhelming when you start looking in to it.
As such, I absolutely LOVE Caterhams, even lower powered ones. I just think there's so much more pleasure to be had wringing the neck of a 140bhp Caterham and making supercars check their mirrors.
All that said, I myself have an R400, so I clearly do enjoy the power side as well! If you can handle the raw nature I really don't think you can get something better for track work.
Happy to talk you through Caterham options etc if you're interested, there's a LOT of info out there and can be a bit overwhelming when you start looking in to it.
I reckon that part of this equation is whether you consider trailering a viable option and if not : how far afield you plan to take it. Driving all the way out to Spa, the 'ring or even circuits at the other end of the UK can be a truly horrible experience in some track machinery compared to a GT3 - especially if you hit some nasty weather. If long range cruising is part of the equation then that might prejudice the decision against things like Caterhams or heavily modified Lotuses. Personally I would rule out several options on ergonomic grounds too, so the question is surely both very personal and not as trivial as it might appear?
DiscoColin said:
I reckon that part of this equation is whether you consider trailering a viable option and if not : how far afield you plan to take it. Driving all the way out to Spa, the 'ring or even circuits at the other end of the UK can be a truly horrible experience in some track machinery compared to a GT3 - especially if you hit some nasty weather. If long range cruising is part of the equation then that might prejudice the decision against things like Caterhams or heavily modified Lotuses. Personally I would rule out several options on ergonomic grounds too, so the question is surely both very personal and not as trivial as it might appear?
+100The above reasons are exactly why my Honda Blackbird powered MK Indy is in the garage (still undecided on what to do with it) and my track toy was an E36 328i coupe(8.54 lap of the Ring so not slow), I've now got an E46 M3 for weekends, fun and trackdays...
Yes, it's too heavy, but it's fast enough to keep up with most road cars (to a point obviously), comes with a brilliant chassis (don't take my word for it, plenty of others have said so), and is more than comfortable to drive to the Nurburgring in a couple of weeks and down to the Alps this summer.
It's a compromise, but a well thought out one. It was also highly recommended by one of the guys who drives 911s in the VLN series!
Don't get me wrong, my kitcar is like s
t off a shovel, pops, farts, spits flames and revs to 11,200rpm with about 300bhp per ton and a sequential box. It'd show the M3 a clean pair of heels on a track, but, the constant threat of something breaking, impracticality, weather, 120mile range etc, soon wears thin...In summary, it's all about what YOU want. If you're coming from a GT3, a kitcar could give you what you're after, but if you want to drive to and from the circuit and have options (luggage, random 100 mile detour), I'd go for an E36/E46 328/330/M3 or something along those lines...
Enjoy the search!
You're going to need something quite special to stop you feeling short changed - something that gives you the drama and balance of a GT3. It's easy to buy cars that have the straight line pace of a GT3, but it's the whole package that's special.
I'd be tempted to go for something pretty raw - so you're getting the noise and feedback. A Caterham would be a blast, lapping in one is very intense. I really don't fancy driving one on long road trips though (must be getting old). A road legal ex-racer will give you some of that rawness, although might not be much fun for a trip to Spa.
What lets down the 944 or 968 is the pathetic noise they make. In comparison an M3 has a glorious engine, but is just a saloon car - with nasty steering in the E36. Having said that, I'm a big fan of the 944 - they are just lovely to drive. Pretty refined and comfortable for long trips, even in trackday spec.
Also worth considering a Boxster - 3.2S with suitable suspension, oiling mods, bucket seats and induction/exhaust tweaks to give you some flat 6 noise..
I'd be tempted to go for something pretty raw - so you're getting the noise and feedback. A Caterham would be a blast, lapping in one is very intense. I really don't fancy driving one on long road trips though (must be getting old). A road legal ex-racer will give you some of that rawness, although might not be much fun for a trip to Spa.
What lets down the 944 or 968 is the pathetic noise they make. In comparison an M3 has a glorious engine, but is just a saloon car - with nasty steering in the E36. Having said that, I'm a big fan of the 944 - they are just lovely to drive. Pretty refined and comfortable for long trips, even in trackday spec.
Also worth considering a Boxster - 3.2S with suitable suspension, oiling mods, bucket seats and induction/exhaust tweaks to give you some flat 6 noise..
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