What trackday car
Discussion
Something like a Honda S1 Elise can also be made pretty habitable to make longer trips bearable - keep induction/exhaust noise sensible, add a hardtop and carpet set like:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lotus-Elise-Deluxe-Cockpit...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lotus-Elise-Deluxe-Cockpit...
TheDeadPrussian said:
If you want to try a Caterham then rent one from Jonny at a Book-a-Track trackday, you’ll know by the end of the day whether it’s for you or not. But I defy anyone to spend anytime on track in a Caterham and not enjoy it!
Alternatively, if you want a roof and a more ‘civilised’ commute to and from the track a Lotus would be next on my list.
I’ve owned a few GT3s and loved them, but recently I’ve bought an Exige V6S and it’s really impressed me. It has a similar feel to the GT3 (RS version as well) in terms of communicative steering, responsiveness and control weights etc when pushing on (although the steering is unassisted).
In summary, drive a Caterham, you’ll love it. But, if it’s too much for the trackday commute and you’d like to stay dry in the rain, buy a Lotus. Both are fantastic propositions and both due to their lack of weight will cost considerably less in consumables than heavier cars.
The Caterham will be considerably cheaper to repair if something goes wrong...
Hi,Alternatively, if you want a roof and a more ‘civilised’ commute to and from the track a Lotus would be next on my list.
I’ve owned a few GT3s and loved them, but recently I’ve bought an Exige V6S and it’s really impressed me. It has a similar feel to the GT3 (RS version as well) in terms of communicative steering, responsiveness and control weights etc when pushing on (although the steering is unassisted).
In summary, drive a Caterham, you’ll love it. But, if it’s too much for the trackday commute and you’d like to stay dry in the rain, buy a Lotus. Both are fantastic propositions and both due to their lack of weight will cost considerably less in consumables than heavier cars.
The Caterham will be considerably cheaper to repair if something goes wrong...
so in your eyes the exige S is almost as good as the v6 Cup? I know both you and I had a go in Silverstone and didn't think it worth circa 70k. At 50k, the cars are similar enough?
HokumPokum said:
Hi,
so in your eyes the exige S is almost as good as the v6 Cup? I know both you and I had a go in Silverstone and didn't think it worth circa 70k. At 50k, the cars are similar enough?
Yes - I bought an LF1 V6S. Listed at £64K, but with negotiation and a Lotus contribution it came in under that...so in your eyes the exige S is almost as good as the v6 Cup? I know both you and I had a go in Silverstone and didn't think it worth circa 70k. At 50k, the cars are similar enough?
My rational for not buying the Cup was that I still wanted some road manners/useability and comfort (it's all relative) as it would not be a track toy exclusively, so a stereo and air conditioning etc was required. I also really like the look of the LF1.
I'm very pleased with it at the moment - it's still early days, but I am bonding with it nicely. The gearbox is not a patch on the RS of course, but the unassisted steering is a joy (once on the move) and the engine has plenty of usable torque due to the supercharger. The car definitely has 'character'.
It's not a 997.2 GT3 RS of course, but then it cost a fraction of what an RS does, but it does still deliver in terms of enjoyment and as I worry less about it I use it more.
I've also stopped tracking my GT3 and went through the very same thought process. I've bought a Lotus 2 Eleven and am finding it much more exciting (to say the very least) and probably as quick on tighter circuits. Although they are more expensive than your budget I figure that depreciation will be negligible, particularly compared to pranging the Porsche!
Agree have a GT3 and must be pushed ...... have Ferrari GT3 though as cheaper . Had a few Porsche GT3s bit soft though but nice on the Kings road ..
No , are great cars compromised but great fun remember when I first wanted one . At the Ring going up the hill t the Karosel in my 64 RS and the first MK1 came past like I was looking for a place to park in speed Yellow ....... he crashed on the high speed bit before the second Karrosel but it was desire at first sight .
Now seen the light and moved to F cars
No , are great cars compromised but great fun remember when I first wanted one . At the Ring going up the hill t the Karosel in my 64 RS and the first MK1 came past like I was looking for a place to park in speed Yellow ....... he crashed on the high speed bit before the second Karrosel but it was desire at first sight .
Now seen the light and moved to F cars
hunter 66 said:
Agree have a GT3 and must be pushed ...... have Ferrari GT3 though as cheaper . Had a few Porsche GT3s bit soft though but nice on the Kings road ..
No , are great cars compromised but great fun remember when I first wanted one . At the Ring going up the hill t the Karosel in my 64 RS and the first MK1 came past like I was looking for a place to park in speed Yellow ....... he crashed on the high speed bit before the second Karrosel but it was desire at first sight .
Now seen the light and moved to F cars
Err... No , are great cars compromised but great fun remember when I first wanted one . At the Ring going up the hill t the Karosel in my 64 RS and the first MK1 came past like I was looking for a place to park in speed Yellow ....... he crashed on the high speed bit before the second Karrosel but it was desire at first sight .
Now seen the light and moved to F cars
by any chance?In exactly the same situation. I've even actually contemplated selling the GT3 for the very same reasons as the OP. But I can't be doing that. 4years in, I'm not giving up on it just yet
Now, this will be a bit of a wild card. Friend of mine builds Coopers for the race series. These little cars do 1.02 laps around KH WITH 110bhp. My best lap in the GT3 was mid 59s. Okay, I'm no race car driver, but 1.02 is still a mighty impressive time given the modest HP.
SO, last year I took a Cooper S in p/x at the garage with a GTT 240 tuning kit. 4000 later my little 3000 mini is now 99% Cooper race car spec and I absolutely love it. We are hoping for 60sec laps even from a regular trackday guy like me.
It's certainly help scratch the itch for now whilst leaving the GT3 for longer road trips where the stripped out mini may not be quite as much fun.
The car would prob cost you 10k all in, but these little cars are super reliable, stick to the road like s
t on a blanket (but will still lift over oversteer on command) and are very cheap to repair.
Here's a wee pic of it. You can just make out the white cage behind the glass
I've retained the AC and stereo to make it a bit more habitable.
Stevie
Now, this will be a bit of a wild card. Friend of mine builds Coopers for the race series. These little cars do 1.02 laps around KH WITH 110bhp. My best lap in the GT3 was mid 59s. Okay, I'm no race car driver, but 1.02 is still a mighty impressive time given the modest HP.
SO, last year I took a Cooper S in p/x at the garage with a GTT 240 tuning kit. 4000 later my little 3000 mini is now 99% Cooper race car spec and I absolutely love it. We are hoping for 60sec laps even from a regular trackday guy like me.
It's certainly help scratch the itch for now whilst leaving the GT3 for longer road trips where the stripped out mini may not be quite as much fun.
The car would prob cost you 10k all in, but these little cars are super reliable, stick to the road like s
t on a blanket (but will still lift over oversteer on command) and are very cheap to repair. Here's a wee pic of it. You can just make out the white cage behind the glass
I've retained the AC and stereo to make it a bit more habitable. Stevie
This is such a difficult topic.
One of our clients has a caterham and i tried it yesterday. Out in the sun its a hoot to drive - but when we went got faster i felt very exposed. Its a far more raw experience than the gt3 for sure - the fault is with me, but i felt uneasy driving it very quickly. At lower speeds on B roads, i really enjoyed the raw feel and noise of it all.
That mini is interesting, i've been given a cooper s as a loan car by bmw while my car is with them and its a hoot to drive.
I keep thinking back to my mate's E46 M3 - it has a wonderful zingy engine and is very quick.
I feel i'm getting into the unknown. Don't know enough about the other cars and not sure i've got the time to do so rather than just getting on and driving! The more i think about this whole thing the more im tending toward perhaps continuing to track the gt3. Problem with that is im not sure the M&M exhaust i've put on the car would get through any of the stricter noise regs. I wonder though if it would affect one's commitment, shouldn't be on the ragged edge anyway but one could end up holding back a wee bit - i dont think it would affect the enjoyment that much.
Lots of food for thought
One of our clients has a caterham and i tried it yesterday. Out in the sun its a hoot to drive - but when we went got faster i felt very exposed. Its a far more raw experience than the gt3 for sure - the fault is with me, but i felt uneasy driving it very quickly. At lower speeds on B roads, i really enjoyed the raw feel and noise of it all.
That mini is interesting, i've been given a cooper s as a loan car by bmw while my car is with them and its a hoot to drive.
I keep thinking back to my mate's E46 M3 - it has a wonderful zingy engine and is very quick.
I feel i'm getting into the unknown. Don't know enough about the other cars and not sure i've got the time to do so rather than just getting on and driving! The more i think about this whole thing the more im tending toward perhaps continuing to track the gt3. Problem with that is im not sure the M&M exhaust i've put on the car would get through any of the stricter noise regs. I wonder though if it would affect one's commitment, shouldn't be on the ragged edge anyway but one could end up holding back a wee bit - i dont think it would affect the enjoyment that much.
Lots of food for thought
An E46 M3 is an excellent tool to do both but in its standard form it is compromised. To make it good on track you have to make it bad on road an vice versa. At least with a caterham you get what you get. Yes you can fiddle with them and turn it into a race car on track but a road setup will work just as well on track too due to the lack of weight. I drove mine back all the way from Spa in the torrential rain and didnt get wet at all. In fact with the heating on it was too hot inside !!!
I think you will be disappointed with an M3 because it is too close to what you have already and the power will not keep you entertained. Your GT3 is great on road and great on track so why not go for something a little more focused for trackwork not another compromise.
I think you will be disappointed with an M3 because it is too close to what you have already and the power will not keep you entertained. Your GT3 is great on road and great on track so why not go for something a little more focused for trackwork not another compromise.
Edited by Far Cough on Friday 17th April 16:36
Steviebeee said:
In exactly the same situation. I've even actually contemplated selling the GT3 for the very same reasons as the OP. ... Coopers for the race series.
This is actually a good shout. I know a couple of people who went down this route and have gotten excellent smiles per £ out of them.TheDeadPrussian said:
HokumPokum said:
Hi,
so in your eyes the exige S is almost as good as the v6 Cup? I know both you and I had a go in Silverstone and didn't think it worth circa 70k. At 50k, the cars are similar enough?
Yes - I bought an LF1 V6S. Listed at £64K, but with negotiation and a Lotus contribution it came in under that...so in your eyes the exige S is almost as good as the v6 Cup? I know both you and I had a go in Silverstone and didn't think it worth circa 70k. At 50k, the cars are similar enough?
My rational for not buying the Cup was that I still wanted some road manners/useability and comfort (it's all relative) as it would not be a track toy exclusively, so a stereo and air conditioning etc was required. I also really like the look of the LF1.
I'm very pleased with it at the moment - it's still early days, but I am bonding with it nicely. The gearbox is not a patch on the RS of course, but the unassisted steering is a joy (once on the move) and the engine has plenty of usable torque due to the supercharger. The car definitely has 'character'.
It's not a 997.2 GT3 RS of course, but then it cost a fraction of what an RS does, but it does still deliver in terms of enjoyment and as I worry less about it I use it more.
Singh911 said:
Its an impossible question but i wonder how much of the enjoyment i had doing trackdays was down to the GT3 - ie would it be as enjoyable in a car not as quick. I guess one has to suck it and see. A 968 sport is well within budget and is the same as the CS under the skin - but will it just feel slow? And will i be a rolling roadblock with all the 911s buzzing around.
You shouldn't have a problem, my first drive in a mate's 924s with 968 running gear was on a trackday at Donny and we were easily in the top 10-20% of the cars there in terms of pace over a lap and this was an RMA event so not full of novices or old knackers!If you are generally a bit of a Porsche fan you could do a lot worse than a 968, it's not going to be as quick as your GT3 obviously but I'd venture to say it would actually be more fun to drive. Lower grip and power makes you work a bit harder but also makes it possible to find and play with the limits rather than just driving a more capable car very fast but at 80% of what it can do.
I'm not judging your (or anyones) driving here, I just think there's a point where a car like a GT3/GTR/etc can get so good it becomes very impressive but less fun.
I still race the 924/968 I mentioned and it may be available to hire for a day if you wanted to try something like that out………..
Far Cough said:
sidsideways]Sorry to be ignorant but what is a LF1. I suspect that as I can't remember it is an open car which I have left [due to old age said:
behind with the Caterham.
Its an Exige S3 V6 but a limited run of dodgy F1 colours ( black , red and gold ).
ETA - or that KOMOTEC upgrade - 430hp for about £5k?
Edited by J-P on Saturday 18th April 20:02
I have been reading this thread with interest. The OP's question is something I think about often. I'm not sure there is a right answer, rather it is all specific to each of us and varies with time.
I agree with many of the views voiced below. As a car starts to get too valuable (to you - we each have different affordability thresholds) you worry too much; a car too fast can leave you feeling a little unworthy; the more hassle the less joy, for instance trailering or the need for a complex set-up.
I've owned and/or driven all sorts of things. My 964rs was cheap at the time, circa 2004, and had the best steering ever. My 996 gt3 cup was quick and brilliant under braking; I also bought it for £21k so it owed me relatively little which was very liberating. I had incidents in two 993 rs cars which was before they got super valuable but still chastening. My caterham which I still own has probably been the best car and blistering fast - very little could touch it on anybtrack eg at 49s around brands hatch Indy. I also raced an Elise in various trims that handled nicely but tended to break over long distances which was a pain in endurance races.
For a good trackday car at sensible running cost/ hassle I'd go for one of the lighter cars, a caterham or lotus. For the best of all worlds in terms of travelling there and wide usability, plus an ability to work hard on track, then any 911 - you don't need a gt3 really but they are great. I wouldn't go for the BMW or Evo/4x4 options - not really geared up for the track unless heavily modified. Interestingly I recently raced a Clio as a second driver for a friend who owned it. It was loads of fun and, relatively, cheap as chips to buy and run. It is liberating to know that if you prang it badly then worst case is 10k to your mate.
In summary, it's all very personal. If you love the smell of petrol then you'll love whatever you do and still be thinking about "what next". That's the gig! Good luck.
I agree with many of the views voiced below. As a car starts to get too valuable (to you - we each have different affordability thresholds) you worry too much; a car too fast can leave you feeling a little unworthy; the more hassle the less joy, for instance trailering or the need for a complex set-up.
I've owned and/or driven all sorts of things. My 964rs was cheap at the time, circa 2004, and had the best steering ever. My 996 gt3 cup was quick and brilliant under braking; I also bought it for £21k so it owed me relatively little which was very liberating. I had incidents in two 993 rs cars which was before they got super valuable but still chastening. My caterham which I still own has probably been the best car and blistering fast - very little could touch it on anybtrack eg at 49s around brands hatch Indy. I also raced an Elise in various trims that handled nicely but tended to break over long distances which was a pain in endurance races.
For a good trackday car at sensible running cost/ hassle I'd go for one of the lighter cars, a caterham or lotus. For the best of all worlds in terms of travelling there and wide usability, plus an ability to work hard on track, then any 911 - you don't need a gt3 really but they are great. I wouldn't go for the BMW or Evo/4x4 options - not really geared up for the track unless heavily modified. Interestingly I recently raced a Clio as a second driver for a friend who owned it. It was loads of fun and, relatively, cheap as chips to buy and run. It is liberating to know that if you prang it badly then worst case is 10k to your mate.
In summary, it's all very personal. If you love the smell of petrol then you'll love whatever you do and still be thinking about "what next". That's the gig! Good luck.
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