Would a 996/7 GT3 live with the 991 GT3 on track?

[keep it lit]

Kav1 said:

keep it lit said:

I'll ask again... what were your 'real world 991' times around Spa?

Sorry to gatecrash but I can give you real world times for 991GT3 around Silverstone GP circuit. I can do a relatively relaxed 2;15 in the 991GT3 best time I ever got In my 997.2GT3RS was 2;22. Again from experience a well driven 991GT3 would be out of sight from a well driven 997 GT3 within 2 laps. The game has just moved on. In fact my 991 Turbo S is also as quick (well for 3 laps before tyres overheat) as 991GT3 and again substantially quicker than 997GT3's on track.

healthy times mate

https://youtu.be/Zx5EBmtm3V8

[arcticGT]

Ade's last comment says to me the car isn't substantially quicker, just easier to extract the performance from for non pro drivers ?

[isaldiri]

Kav1 said:

Sorry to gatecrash but I can give you real world times for 991GT3 around Silverstone GP circuit. I can do a relatively relaxed 2;15 in the 991GT3 best time I ever got In my 997.2GT3RS was 2;22. Again from experience a well driven 991GT3 would be out of sight from a well driven 997 GT3 within 2 laps. The game has just moved on. In fact my 991 Turbo S is also as quick (well for 3 laps before tyres overheat) as 991GT3 and again substantially quicker than 997GT3's on track.

Sportauto supertest
997.2 GT3 RS Hockenheim 1:09.6
991 GT3 Hockenheim 1:09.6

997.2 GT3 RS Nordschleife 7:33
991 GT3 Nordschleife 7:32.2

On inferior tyres as well.

Out of sight within 2 laps....?

For the average trackday driver perhaps as there is no doubt the 991 gt3 is a lot easier to go quick in, not for a very competent driver though.....

[Phooey]

So, basically what i thought - me Mam would be quicker in the 991, but a good experienced driver - not much between the 2?

[PorscheGT4]

Kav1 said:

Sorry to gatecrash but I can give you real world times for 991GT3 around Silverstone GP circuit. I can do a relatively relaxed 2;15 in the 991GT3 best time I ever got In my 997.2GT3RS was 2;22. .

what are those times really saying though ?

[boringbeige]

To put all that in to perspective , I was on Silverstone GP circuit at the weekend in my 250cc go kart. Best lap time was 2.02
Just saying. Sorry to gate crash your thread.

[Kav1]

isaldiri said:

Kav1 said:

Sorry to gatecrash but I can give you real world times for 991GT3 around Silverstone GP circuit. I can do a relatively relaxed 2;15 in the 991GT3 best time I ever got In my 997.2GT3RS was 2;22. Again from experience a well driven 991GT3 would be out of sight from a well driven 997 GT3 within 2 laps. The game has just moved on. In fact my 991 Turbo S is also as quick (well for 3 laps before tyres overheat) as 991GT3 and again substantially quicker than 997GT3's on track.

Sportauto supertest
997.2 GT3 RS Hockenheim 1:09.6
991 GT3 Hockenheim 1:09.6

997.2 GT3 RS Nordschleife 7:33
991 GT3 Nordschleife 7:32.2

On inferior tyres as well.

Out of sight within 2 laps....?

For the average trackday driver perhaps as there is no doubt the 991 gt3 is a lot easier to go quick in, not for a very competent driver though.....

I'm not Lewis Hamilton but equally I'd class myself as a very competent driver. You have to keep things in context here, it's no good stating lap times done by pro drivers in probably different conditions to try and prove a point. Now from experience owing both and driving them in different conditions on numerous tracks I can tell you once again all things being equal not a chance. The out of sight within 2 laps of Silverstone comment was also from experience ,I've got friends who are again very competent and experienced drivers with 997GT3RS's who will happily confirm this! In fact, I've done 10 consecutive laps following Callum Lockie in a Hoosier tyred 997GT3RS and he couldn't drop me despite the track spec rubber. He couldn't believe how fast the 991GT3 is. I won't argue that the 991 is easier to extract the performance from but the reality is the performance is on another level. Regardless the question was not is a 991GT3 easier to drive fast than a 996 or 997. The question was can a 996 or 997 GT3 stay with a 991 GT3 on track. Incidentally ... I love the 997 GT3RS, so much so I will be buying one again even though prices have almost doubled since I sold mine.

[isaldiri]

Kav1 said:

I'm not Lewis Hamilton but equally I'd class myself as a very competent driver. You have to keep things in context here, it's no good stating lap times done by pro drivers in probably different conditions to try and prove a point. Now from experience owing both and driving them in different conditions on numerous tracks I can tell you once again all things being equal not a chance. The out of sight within 2 laps of Silverstone comment was also from experience ,I've got friends who are again very competent and experienced drivers with 997GT3RS's who will happily confirm this! In fact, I've done 10 consecutive laps following Callum Lockie in a Hoosier tyred 997GT3RS and he couldn't drop me despite the track spec rubber. He couldn't believe how fast the 991GT3 is. I won't argue that the 991 is easier to extract the performance from but the reality is the performance is on another level. Regardless the question was not is a 991GT3 easier to drive fast than a 996 or 997. The question was can a 996 or 997 GT3 stay with a 991 GT3 on track. Incidentally ... I love the 997 GT3RS, so much so I will be buying one again even though prices have almost doubled since I sold mine.

Not particularly trying to prove a point, merely highlighting the sportauto results which are attempted to be performed in a pretty standardised way as far as I have heard and the drivers while obviously are bloody competent are not outright pro racing drivers and those do not suggest the performance is on another level and certainly not to the point it would be out of sight in 2 laps.

As I did note earlier, I would be really quite interested to see outside of transmission the difference between 2 cars. I fully agree on track the 991 is going to have a big advantage due to the dual clutch box further exaggerated by the fact no owner is going to flat shift in the 997 which is less of a concern by the journalists... While I do think 7 seconds differential between the 7.2 RS and 991 GT3 sounds overly large, that said it is your own experience in both cars so fair enough.

[Gandahar]

Bit of a pointless question really unless you are in a race to win a trophy. For trackdays it's probably a better question to ask which is more fun and interesting to peddle around.

[GT3cs]

Back to back lapping with the 991 GT3 and the 997.2 GT3 today at porsche experence centre . Admittedly a small twisty track / road . But with my competence of driving I was significantly quicker in the 991. Much more than I was expecting .

On the downside only got to use the 997 as the the 991 developed a fault after 10 laps .

On the upside I get to go back and do it again !

[d41d8cd9]

I honestly wonder how many of the 991 GT3 owners love the car because (unaware to them) the car makes them feel like a significantly better driver than they actually are. It must be quite an ego boost.

[GT3cs]

d41d8cd9 said:

I honestly wonder how many of the 991 GT3 owners love the car because (unaware to them) the car makes them feel like a significantly better driver than they actually are. It must be quite an ego boost.

I sold my 991 after about 1600m as I thought it lacked a bit of character . I'm now in a Manual Cayman R until the GT4 turns up , so I'm not the average 991 GT3 supporter .

I always knew the 991 would be quicker but just how much in those circumstances for my level of driver was a surprise . The car does definitely flatter . I wouldn't get anywhere near my times in 997 . The instructor on the other hands was far closer in both cars . The big questions was Did I enjoy being a driving God for 30mins till it broke ? Surprisingly to me I loved it , even knowing the car was doing a chunk of work for me .....

(Right time to go for heel and toe practice in the R . Not sure if everyone's experence instructor is the same but we were absolutely no holes barred all day . I didn't think we'd end up doing heel and toe practice in the 997 )

[PorscheGT4]

I like all new cars for a while, living with them is another matter.

be great to thrash out a few laps in a 991 GT3, after that, not so. .....

[hunter 66]

Gandahar ......... got to give it to you after watching you Kart guys ..................mad stuff.
True respect
Kavi yes it is an amazing car as an easy 2.15 is very impressive as a push and it is on GT4 race pace!

Edited by hunter 66 on Saturday 2nd May 14:58

[hondansx]

Interesting that, in an old Christophorus magazine, in an interview AP said that RWS is equal to losing around 100kg in terms of chassis dynamics.

Just doing a bit of Googling, every single comparison on a variety of tracks suggests the 991 is way quicker.

[Nineexcellence]

keep it lit said:

Kav1 said:

keep it lit said:

I'll ask again... what were your 'real world 991' times around Spa?

Sorry to gatecrash but I can give you real world times for 991GT3 around Silverstone GP circuit. I can do a relatively relaxed 2;15 in the 991GT3 best time I ever got In my 997.2GT3RS was 2;22. Again from experience a well driven 991GT3 would be out of sight from a well driven 997 GT3 within 2 laps. The game has just moved on. In fact my 991 Turbo S is also as quick (well for 3 laps before tyres overheat) as 991GT3 and again substantially quicker than 997GT3's on track.

healthy times mate

https://youtu.be/Zx5EBmtm3V8

You might not realise that in that video the 991 was keeping behind to get video footage - both are customers of mine. He was 10 seconds quicker a lap than standard 996 GT3 which was the video car once he decided to go past. Standard 996gt3 was running around 2:51 a lap, 991gt3 was 10 seconds quicker.

[fioran0]

d41d8cd9 said:

That seems to contradict the claims that the 991 Cup is no quicker than the 997.2 Cup. Unless that driver isn't on top form and therefore benefits more from the 991 Cup's easier drive.

Here is a sample of lap times from Supercup for 991, 997.2 and 997.1 Cup. Fastest lap of weekend and fastest race lap included. See if you can make sense of that one regarding your above



Leaving Supercup aside, if one was to try and make a generalisation or a ballpark stab at time differences, I would say that there is probably about 1-1.5 seconds a lap between each iteration of Cup from 996 through to 997.1 and 997.2. Sometimes it is not quite as much but as a rule of thumb this would tend to be reasonably close. How the 991 Cup fits with this remains to be seen. There isn't enough of them out there yet to get a handle on things.

Edited by fioran0 on Tuesday 5th May 15:28

[keep it lit]

Nineexcellence said:

You might not realise that in that video the 991 was keeping behind to get video footage - both are customers of mine. He was 10 seconds quicker a lap than standard 996 GT3 which was the video car once he decided to go past. Standard 996gt3 was running around 2:51 a lap, 991gt3 was 10 seconds quicker.

I realised as Tanvir sent me the footage beforehand. When your exploring the limits of these cars it's as much down to the driver as it is to the model of car.. I'm young-ish but old school at heart, for me you can keep the 991's from experience.

here is some recent footage from my man Clay earlier this season in his 2000 996 GT3R hunting down some 2010/11/12 Cups with traction control, ABS, paddle shift etc.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xUCTbGxfkNQ

in it for the fun!

[ttdan]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I think this could change. Customers will dry up for the "new" If they just set the marketing dial to involvement and feedback then its job done. The gt4 is an attempt at this. The used or classic market is now a bigger market than the new stuff, Porsche will want some of that sooner or later for marketing points if not revenue.

[Nineexcellence]

keep it lit said:

Nineexcellence said:

You might not realise that in that video the 991 was keeping behind to get video footage - both are customers of mine. He was 10 seconds quicker a lap than standard 996 GT3 which was the video car once he decided to go past. Standard 996gt3 was running around 2:51 a lap, 991gt3 was 10 seconds quicker.

I realised as Tanvir sent me the footage beforehand. When your exploring the limits of these cars it's as much down to the driver as it is to the model of car.. I'm young-ish but old school at heart, for me you can keep the 991's from experience.

here is some recent footage from my man Clay earlier this season in his 2000 996 GT3R hunting down some 2010/11/12 Cups with traction control, ABS, paddle shift etc.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xUCTbGxfkNQ

in it for the fun!

agree - think there is a couple more seconds in tanvirs car so 2:49-2:50 is where that car is for him. We have a couple of 9e964r (supercharged) that we should get close to 2:50 in - currently running around 2:55. This for me is actually more fun because a lot of that time will come equally as much from driver as car. It is always going to eat a challenge. Low 2:40 is plenty quick enough and let's face it, it is more fun to be driving similar pace to your mates than driving around 10 seconds quicker.

Ken