991 carrera - good time to buy used?

[pete a]

I must say when a 991GTS hits £70k it will be a fantastic amount of car for the money.

[av185]

pete a said:

I must say when a 991GTS hits £70k it will be a fantastic amount of car for the money.

But the 991 GTS at c£92k new is overpriced as a package relative to what the 997 GTS was at c £78k.

[pete a]

av185 said:

But the 991 GTS at c£92k new is overpriced as a package relative to what the 997 GTS was at c £78k.

I specced a 991 GTS up on the Configurator and got to about £115k with PCCB , buckets and a few nice bits.

What's a 997 GTS like to drive and would it feel like a massive backwards step from a 997.1 GT3?

[av185]

pete a said:

av185 said:

But the 991 GTS at c£92k new is overpriced as a package relative to what the 997 GTS was at c £78k.

I specced a 991 GTS up on the Configurator and got to about £115k with PCCB , buckets and a few nice bits.

What's a 997 GTS like to drive and would it feel like a massive backwards step from a 997.1 GT3?

The 997 GTS is seen by many as being the last of the true 'analogue' 911s and in 2wd form in particular is far more involving as a drivers car than either the 991 C2S or 991 GTS both of which have morphed away from the 911 sports car ethos into more sports gt. The hydraulic steering of course is now dead and buried but the 997 has far more neutrality and feel to the electric set ups, including the new GT3.

The 997 GTS is far easier to live with than the 997 GT3 which is too hardcore for many. On a typical UK A or B road blast, the 997 GTS is almost as rapid and engaging as the 997 GT3......

A good comparison is the 997 GTS is to the 997 C2S what the 997 RS 4.0 GT3 is to the RS 3.8.

[ORD]

av185 said:

The 997 GTS is seen by many as being the last of the true 'analogue' 911s and in 2wd form in particular is far more involving as a drivers car than either the 991 C2S or 991 GTS both of which have morphed away from the 911 sports car ethos into more sports gt. The hydraulic steering of course is now dead and buried but the 997 has far more neutrality and feel to the electric set ups, including the new GT3.

The 997 GTS is far easier to live with than the 997 GT3 which is too hardcore for many. On a typical UK A or B road blast, the 997 GTS is almost as rapid and engaging as the 997 GT3......

A good comparison is the 997 GTS is to the 997 C2S what the 997 RS 4.0 GT3 is to the RS 3.8.

Looking at the power to weight ratios, a 997 GT3 would leave a GTS for dead!

I have been looking at 997 GTS but there are two problems - (1) they are almost all PDK and/or white and (2) they are priced very aggressively indeed given that they are a few years old now. £60k seems fairly standard, which is faintly bonkers given what else Porsche will sell you for around £75j.

[Fl0pp3r]

nigestar said:

All true. But for a 60k budget a 997 GTS is still great car. There is a great review of 991 v 997 GTS in Total 911 lat month

http://www.total911.com/997-vs-991/ - online article from last year, not focused on the GTS models specifically but sounds like OP is after a Carrera anyway.

Lots of interesting views on this thread in terms of 997 vs 991. I still think from a financial point of view (ie depreciation avoidance) and if you are an enthusiast - a 997 GTS makes the most sense as it represents the best of the 2nd generation of 997 cars (GT3 notwithstanding). The 991 GTS is by all accounts a similarly great car, but its way out of the OP's budget. Porsche has been consistently and deliberately 'broadening the appeal' (read 'watering down' for some of us!!) of its mainstream 911's since the 996 generation, and these suit a lot of people very well (just look at the number of 911's Porsche is selling every year now), consequently though, if you're going to pick a 3 year old 991 Carrera and enjoy the benefits of the newer car, you need to be ready to accept that its going to continue to drop quite significantly in value during your ownership.

Finance to one side, either car will put a smile on your face Charlie :-)

[pete a]

GTS is now available on every car Porsche make and on the 911 you can get a GTS in everything from a C2GTS all the way to a Targa 4 GTS and everything in between , so it really is now just a trim and option pack.

[av185]

ORD said:

Looking at the power to weight ratios, a 997 GT3 would leave a GTS for dead!

I have been looking at 997 GTS but there are two problems - (1) they are almost all PDK and/or white and (2) they are priced very aggressively indeed given that they are a few years old now. £60k seems fairly standard, which is faintly bonkers given what else Porsche will sell you for around £75j.

The ptw ratios may differ in the GT3s favour on track but in the real world driving roads there is not much in it.

I rate the PDK GTS over the 'manuel' as it suits the car....although others may differ....the fact that PDK GTS still retains a premium over the luddite shift speaks volumes. Software improvements mean there is little difference between the 997 PDK and 991so it has not 'aged' as such.

One point if 'manuel' is your bag is that the 997 gearboxes are superior to the 991.

As already discussed, whilst better spec and mileage GTS are holding up well residually and little changed over the last three years, these cars are future classics and likely to exceed 991C2S prices soon. My 11plate 3k mile £95k high spec PDK GTS 2wd I bought from an OPC at 10 months old for £66k.....

One thing to bear in mind could be the next gen Carreras will doubtless be turbos which could prop up the last of the line na 991s.

[Phooey]

av185 said:

these cars are future classics and likely to exceed 991C2S prices soon

I wouldn't stretch it as far as to call it a "future classic" .

As mentioned above.. 'GTS' is a trim level - now applied to the whole of the Porsche range. The 997 GTS will always command 15-20% over the C2S, but as the C2S drops, so will the GTS.

fwiw - *good* C2S's / C4's have also held extremely well in the past 3 years. I think half the reason for this is Porsche got the standard gen2-997 spot on, and with PDK - moved the game on. The GTS is 10% better.

[nelsls]

charliedb2 said:

Thanks - I think I am coming to the conclusion that a 997 Gen 2 S with PDK, sub 30k miles for around the £40k mark is going to be my best bet. I remember reading about how good the GTS' are when they came out, however I am looking at another £15-20k, so quite a %age more needed and I can't justify that much of a premium. Plus as a side note, they all seem to be specced with the black alloys which are not my thing really (again trying to stay relatively understated).

I just need to find one now.

I've just sent you a DM about my car, which I'll be selling in a few weeks. Maybe fits the bill?

[Fl0pp3r]

Neighbouring thread re 997 GTS
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[charliedb2]

Thanks for all your help and replies.

I went for a manual 997 gen 2 C2S in the end from Porsche centre Newcastle. I am really enjoying the car, liking being back in a manual and enjoying having nearly 3 years warranty on it which was a bonus.

What was not a bonus was someone reversing into me in the mcdonalds car park yesterday when i was getting a cheeky bit of breakfast and then driving off! http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/imgs/7.gif
Luckily a guy came forward as a witness with the car reg etc so hopefully my insurers will sort it out with the person who obviously did not realise they did it.

Happy days.