Turbo S in the canyons..
Discussion
Guys you all need to take a chill pill......... 
Who cares if Ronin is not chopping off corners, he's out for a drive not to get to his destination as fast as he can!
There have been occasions where I have encountered a series of beautiful sweeping roads where its been clear to 'straight line' them but I don't, purely so that I can follow the road and feel the weight transfer from side to side.
It's one of the main reasons I go out for a drive, to feel the chassis at work and to feed in the power on the corners and manage the steering input.
We ALL love corners, if we didn't we wouldn't be on here championing the handling characteristics of our cars!
Sometimes this forum is like a school playground.
Who cares if Ronin is not chopping off corners, he's out for a drive not to get to his destination as fast as he can!
There have been occasions where I have encountered a series of beautiful sweeping roads where its been clear to 'straight line' them but I don't, purely so that I can follow the road and feel the weight transfer from side to side.
It's one of the main reasons I go out for a drive, to feel the chassis at work and to feed in the power on the corners and manage the steering input.
We ALL love corners, if we didn't we wouldn't be on here championing the handling characteristics of our cars!
Sometimes this forum is like a school playground.
V8KSN said:
Guys you all need to take a chill pill.........
Who cares if Ronin is not chopping off corners, he's out for a drive not to get to his destination as fast as he can!
There have been occasions where I have encountered a series of beautiful sweeping roads where its been clear to 'straight line' them but I don't, purely so that I can follow the road and feel the weight transfer from side to side.
It's one of the main reasons I go out for a drive, to feel the chassis at work and to feed in the power on the corners and manage the steering input.
We ALL love corners, if we didn't we wouldn't be on here championing the handling characteristics of our cars!
Sometimes this forum is like a school playground.
I live and drive in California where it is against the law to cross the double yellow centerline and is considered reckless driving here... Fines and points are hefty if caught doing so....Who cares if Ronin is not chopping off corners, he's out for a drive not to get to his destination as fast as he can!
There have been occasions where I have encountered a series of beautiful sweeping roads where its been clear to 'straight line' them but I don't, purely so that I can follow the road and feel the weight transfer from side to side.
It's one of the main reasons I go out for a drive, to feel the chassis at work and to feed in the power on the corners and manage the steering input.
We ALL love corners, if we didn't we wouldn't be on here championing the handling characteristics of our cars!
Sometimes this forum is like a school playground.
Please post up your 991 Turbo S canyon driving videos at speed on public roads here and let's all see the driving gods at work.....
the ronin said:
I live and drive in California where it is against the law to cross the double yellow centerline and is considered reckless driving here... Fines and points are hefty if caught doing so....
Please post up your 991 Turbo S canyon driving videos at speed on public roads here and let's all see the driving gods at work.....
Do you ever exceed the speed limit?Please post up your 991 Turbo S canyon driving videos at speed on public roads here and let's all see the driving gods at work.....
http://guysurvivalguide.com/survive/survival/stunt...
http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/steering_tech.h...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrjlXs4yEp0
When I trained with Bobby Ore, the stunt driver who instructs stunt drivers, he explained that, while this hand position makes perfect sense if you’re trying to drive a Model A Ford and steer it out of ruts, it doesn’t make any sense for a modern car on a paved road with power steering.
“But race car drivers use this hand position!” I can hear you shout. To which I say “stop shouting!”
You see, race cars are nothing like the cars that you and I drive on city streets. A Formula 1 car, for example, is 1/2 turn from lock to lock… that means that to turn fully left, it’s only 1/4 turn of the wheel… and to turn fully right, it’s only a 1/4 turn of the wheel to the right. Race cars have extremely tight steering, and this is also why they can’t pull u-turns… They just aren’t made for the kind of maneuvers street vehicles are made for.
By contrast, the cars that we drive on city streets are a full turn and a half from lock to lock… That means that to turn the wheel all the way left you must crank the wheel 270 degrees.
If you sit at your steering wheel and hold your hands at 10 and 2, and then turn your wheel to the right, you’ll notice that after you turn it about 90 degrees, you’ve got to replace your left hand with your right hand to keep turning… and since you have to turn it 270 degrees, you’ll have to replace your hands several times.
A very common injury in car crashes is for the driver to break their thumbs on the steering wheel upon impact… this results from holding the wheel with your thumbs wrapped around it… upon impact, your hands continue forward, yanking your thumbs back against the wheel, and both breaking your thumgs and/or fracturing or breaking your wrists. I’ve been told by several ER nurses that this is an extremely common injury.
Another complication from the 10 – 2 hand position is that modern cars have airbags. Airbags explode from the center of the steering wheel. If you grip the wheel in the 10 o’clock and 2 o’clock position, the airbag will slam into and possibly break or fracture your wrists. If you turn the wheel and cross your wrist(s) in front of the center of the wheel, when the airbag deploys it will not only injure your wrists, but it will slam them into your face, causing serious injuries.
I really don’t like to hear my car say “stop hitting yourself!” as I smash my nose with my wrist, so I find these compelling reasons to shift my steering technique.
All we need now is a compelling alternative… And that’s exactly what Bobby Ore teaches. He calls it “shuffle steering”, and it goes like this:
You place your right hand at the 4-o’clock position, and your left hand at the 8-o’clock position, and grasp the wheel lightly with your finger-tips. Bobby is adamant about the light, finger-tip grip. And let me tell you, if this man can spin a car 720 degrees at 90 miles an hour through a pair of cones while gripping lightly, you can navigate the local Costco parking lot this way. It’s surprising how little effort most cars require, and how much most people over-grip the wheel.
This hand position solves all the problems noted above… by holding in the lower portion of the wheel, it feels unnatural to grasp with your thumbs wrapped around the wheel, so you use the finger-tip grip and don’t break your thumbs and wrists in an accident.
Your hands also never cross each other, nor do they cross the wheel center/airbag, so your wrists are free from the spontaneous-balloon-of-death airbag impact.
As an added bonus, the new more relaxed position isn’t as draining on your arms, hands or shoulders… Sweet.
When you need to turn the wheel, you use the “shuffle”. Here’s a breakdown of how it works (It sounds much more complicated than it really is):
If you are turning right, you do the following:
With both hands holding the wheel lightly, your right and left hands should be in the 4 o’clock and 8 o’clock positions, holding with just finger tips, palms facing up. To turn right, you simply grip with your right hand at the 4-o’clock position, and pull the wheel down and to the left in a clockwise direction, while lightening your grip with your left hand, allowing the wheel to slide through your left fingers, and moving your left hand and right hand together to the 6 o’clock position. when they come together, the left hand grasps the wheel and continues the motion to the left, while the right hand returns to its starting position on the right… Both hands move away from each other, and the pattern repeats.
This results in your hands coming together and apart at the bottom of the steering wheel. The wheel slides continuously, and with a little practice you can turn it surprisingly fast.
This also results in a very smooth and even turn of the wheel, and you NEVER run out of real estate. If you lock your hands on the wheel at 10 and 2, you will not only cross your arms, but you will quickly run out of ability to keep turning the wheel without letting go and doing a big awkward re-positioning.
While I first learned this technique doing stunt-driving, I saw it again when I was off-roading with some of the top drivers in the world… The guy driving with me had won the Camel Trophy and was a professional off-road racer… And also used shuffle steering. It’s a great technique… give it a try and see!
I'm still waiting for all the online experts here on PistonHeads to post up their canyon videos
http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/steering_tech.h...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrjlXs4yEp0
When I trained with Bobby Ore, the stunt driver who instructs stunt drivers, he explained that, while this hand position makes perfect sense if you’re trying to drive a Model A Ford and steer it out of ruts, it doesn’t make any sense for a modern car on a paved road with power steering.
“But race car drivers use this hand position!” I can hear you shout. To which I say “stop shouting!”
You see, race cars are nothing like the cars that you and I drive on city streets. A Formula 1 car, for example, is 1/2 turn from lock to lock… that means that to turn fully left, it’s only 1/4 turn of the wheel… and to turn fully right, it’s only a 1/4 turn of the wheel to the right. Race cars have extremely tight steering, and this is also why they can’t pull u-turns… They just aren’t made for the kind of maneuvers street vehicles are made for.
By contrast, the cars that we drive on city streets are a full turn and a half from lock to lock… That means that to turn the wheel all the way left you must crank the wheel 270 degrees.
If you sit at your steering wheel and hold your hands at 10 and 2, and then turn your wheel to the right, you’ll notice that after you turn it about 90 degrees, you’ve got to replace your left hand with your right hand to keep turning… and since you have to turn it 270 degrees, you’ll have to replace your hands several times.
A very common injury in car crashes is for the driver to break their thumbs on the steering wheel upon impact… this results from holding the wheel with your thumbs wrapped around it… upon impact, your hands continue forward, yanking your thumbs back against the wheel, and both breaking your thumgs and/or fracturing or breaking your wrists. I’ve been told by several ER nurses that this is an extremely common injury.
Another complication from the 10 – 2 hand position is that modern cars have airbags. Airbags explode from the center of the steering wheel. If you grip the wheel in the 10 o’clock and 2 o’clock position, the airbag will slam into and possibly break or fracture your wrists. If you turn the wheel and cross your wrist(s) in front of the center of the wheel, when the airbag deploys it will not only injure your wrists, but it will slam them into your face, causing serious injuries.
I really don’t like to hear my car say “stop hitting yourself!” as I smash my nose with my wrist, so I find these compelling reasons to shift my steering technique.
All we need now is a compelling alternative… And that’s exactly what Bobby Ore teaches. He calls it “shuffle steering”, and it goes like this:
You place your right hand at the 4-o’clock position, and your left hand at the 8-o’clock position, and grasp the wheel lightly with your finger-tips. Bobby is adamant about the light, finger-tip grip. And let me tell you, if this man can spin a car 720 degrees at 90 miles an hour through a pair of cones while gripping lightly, you can navigate the local Costco parking lot this way. It’s surprising how little effort most cars require, and how much most people over-grip the wheel.
This hand position solves all the problems noted above… by holding in the lower portion of the wheel, it feels unnatural to grasp with your thumbs wrapped around the wheel, so you use the finger-tip grip and don’t break your thumbs and wrists in an accident.
Your hands also never cross each other, nor do they cross the wheel center/airbag, so your wrists are free from the spontaneous-balloon-of-death airbag impact.
As an added bonus, the new more relaxed position isn’t as draining on your arms, hands or shoulders… Sweet.
When you need to turn the wheel, you use the “shuffle”. Here’s a breakdown of how it works (It sounds much more complicated than it really is):
If you are turning right, you do the following:
With both hands holding the wheel lightly, your right and left hands should be in the 4 o’clock and 8 o’clock positions, holding with just finger tips, palms facing up. To turn right, you simply grip with your right hand at the 4-o’clock position, and pull the wheel down and to the left in a clockwise direction, while lightening your grip with your left hand, allowing the wheel to slide through your left fingers, and moving your left hand and right hand together to the 6 o’clock position. when they come together, the left hand grasps the wheel and continues the motion to the left, while the right hand returns to its starting position on the right… Both hands move away from each other, and the pattern repeats.
This results in your hands coming together and apart at the bottom of the steering wheel. The wheel slides continuously, and with a little practice you can turn it surprisingly fast.
This also results in a very smooth and even turn of the wheel, and you NEVER run out of real estate. If you lock your hands on the wheel at 10 and 2, you will not only cross your arms, but you will quickly run out of ability to keep turning the wheel without letting go and doing a big awkward re-positioning.
While I first learned this technique doing stunt-driving, I saw it again when I was off-roading with some of the top drivers in the world… The guy driving with me had won the Camel Trophy and was a professional off-road racer… And also used shuffle steering. It’s a great technique… give it a try and see!
I'm still waiting for all the online experts here on PistonHeads to post up their canyon videos
Edited by the ronin on Wednesday 20th May 16:31
the ronin said:
http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/steering_tech.h...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrjlXs4yEp0
I'm still waiting for all the online experts here on PistonHeads to post up their canyon videos
I'm still waiting for you to explain why crossing the centre line on a road with perfect visibility with no other traffic is 'reckless'...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrjlXs4yEp0
I'm still waiting for all the online experts here on PistonHeads to post up their canyon videos
Edited by the ronin on Wednesday 20th May 16:25
Edited by sidicks on Wednesday 20th May 16:30
sidicks said:
I'm still waiting for you to explain why crossing the centre line on a road with perfect visibility with no other traffic is 'reckless'...
I live and drive in California where it is against the law to cross the double yellow centerline and is considered reckless driving here... Fines and points are hefty if caught doing so....Edited by sidicks on Wednesday 20th May 16:30
Please post up your 991 Turbo S canyon driving videos at speed on public roads here and let's all see the driving gods at work.....
here is a guy in the canons ;-)
no mr shuffle hands you see ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y20CLumT2Sg
no mr shuffle hands you see ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y20CLumT2Sg
the ronin said:
I live and drive in California where it is against the law to cross the double yellow centerline and is considered reckless driving here... Fines and points are hefty if caught doing so....
So not actually reckless whatsoever, just potentially could be classed as such by the police.Do they have cameras at the side of the road to catch this sort of behaviour?
Edited by sidicks on Wednesday 20th May 16:59
PorscheGT4 said:
here is a guy in the canons ;-)
no mr shuffle hands you see ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y20CLumT2Sg
Maybe you should understand steering rack ratio and corner radius and what it takes to get around in the canyons..no mr shuffle hands you see ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y20CLumT2Sg
Posting up a Lobe video on Pikes peak is a little dumb since it is not a tight canyon road and when he needs to he shuffle steers....
Senna, Schumacher, Alanso and Hurly Hayward all shuffle steer.....
Drive however you like and I'll do the same without making believe I'm an internet expert....
35 yrs of crusin the canyons and no F ups, I'll do what works for me without making believe I know it all, because I don't..
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