GT3 RS 1st road test.
Discussion
sidicks said:
Please explain...
Well, I hesitate to get involved in the love in the two of you are having 
...but I guess the whole thing about whether you had to change gear once or twice on your way to 125mph is less of an issue if the car is optimised to make those shifts seemless and a 'non event' to the forward propulsion of the car...
...especially in the 'auto' mode where the driver is not pulling on the flap...and if the driver is pulling on the flap then they are just interfering sub-optimally...
GT3SG said:
Robbo66 said:
RSVP911 said:
Obviously I haven't driven the 991 RS , but I do have a 991 GT3 and I am also lucky enough to have a 997.2 RS - I find both of them extremely engaging and fun at low , medium and high speeds - they are both "best of breed" IMHO , just different. I see the 991 as the start of a new generation and the 997 as the end of one - a truely amazing car of its type & time . In truth , although I have an RS on order , I am slightly surprised that the reviews are not quite as glowing as I thought they would be - certainly not describing it as a game changer in the way the GT3 was portrayed (I think this just shows how good the 991 Gt3 is) it feels la little flat to me - does anyone else think this ? Maybe once the proper road tests and comps with the Speciale happen , then this will change ? I also think the GT3 looks amazing in every colour - a testament to really great design , where as the RS just doesn't look quite as good to my eyes - maybe in the metal it will be different ? Don't get me wrong , I know I'm really lucky to get an RS allocation and I am really looking forward to driving / owning the car - just not quite as much as I was when I ordered the 3 - weird - I just can't quite work out why ?? 
I can Rich, because it's not that far ahead of the GT3. All they seem to have done is raise, once again, the speed at which you have to travel to reach that buzz.The tyres are beyond comprehension. Bit more torque, damper adjustment, bit more areo.... What else can they say ?.
We're really talking small degrees of perceived performance improvement here...the journo's seem a little stumped, and rightly so IMO.
Robbo66 said:
As an investment, a no brainer, wouldn't stop me either. As a track car...great value and a weapon. As a thrasher through the hills...not for me.
despite being fun at lower speeds, very difficult to get above 6-7/10s in a 991GT3 on the road without risk of ones licence, imv, for me whist not that much fun to drive, (speed aside) the Turbo S is a much better road car.My GT3 ended up being used 99% of the time on track for the above reasons, can see this new RS being used for same...
Edited by APOLO1 on Friday 22 May 11:36
[quote=RSVP911]
Obviously I haven't driven the 991 RS , but I do have a 991 GT3 and I am also lucky enough to have a 997.2 RS - I find both of them extremely engaging and fun at low , medium and high speeds - they are both "best of breed" IMHO , just different. I see the 991 as the start of a new generation and the 997 as the end of one - a truely amazing car of its type & time . In truth , although I have an RS on order , I am slightly surprised that the reviews are not quite as glowing as I thought they would be - certainly not describing it as a "game changer" in the way that the GT3 was portrayed (I think this just shows how good the 991 GT3 is) It feels la little flat to me ; does anyone else think this ? Maybe once the proper road tests and comps. with the likes of the Speciale happen , then this will change ?
I also think the GT3 looks amazing in every single colour - this is a testament to really great design , whereas the RS just doesn't look quite as good to my eyes - maybe in the metal it will be different ?
Don't get me wrong , I know I'm really lucky to get an RS allocation and I am really looking forward to driving / owning the car - just not quite as much as I was when I ordered the 3 - it's really weird - I just can't quite work out why ??
Keep the faith if you don`t go weak at the knees when they pull of the cover then I`d be surprised. I saw the Lava Orange launch car at Geneva and its presence was amazing. Not that I would choose orange personally. What is good to remember is that the historic challenge of the 911 concept has been to try and get more grip at the front end of the car. That quest with the arrival of very last GT 997s (997.2 gt2rs/gt3rs) took a big step forward. Then came the 991 and all models gained yet more front end improvement. The job is almost done now and the aero and tyre technology on the 991 GT3 has just about been eliminated under steer and mediocre turn in speeds are just about gone. The 911 GT3RS puts the icing on the cake and we now after many years of having to have a more gentle approach to corner entry speed can attack in a way never possible before. What's more that massive increase in mechanical grip from the front end further enables us to control the rear so much easier with on and opposite lock in a way we never could before. Not all the journalists are going to wet their knickers in this car because the new problem is that you are going to have to drive it at racing speeds to enjoy a feeling of mastery and full involvement and that has now become extremely fast and relatively dangerous especially if you are not used to driving 911s. Would we all be better of driving old 911s at half the speed with restrictive under steer lurching into massive over steer exiting bends at half the speed but with a smile on our face. Maybe this is why the Porsche club is full of happy older 911 owners. The old ones were great but I think we will go with the technology for now. Remember the GT3RS will give its running gear to the 991.2 GT2RS so we need to get practising.
Obviously I haven't driven the 991 RS , but I do have a 991 GT3 and I am also lucky enough to have a 997.2 RS - I find both of them extremely engaging and fun at low , medium and high speeds - they are both "best of breed" IMHO , just different. I see the 991 as the start of a new generation and the 997 as the end of one - a truely amazing car of its type & time . In truth , although I have an RS on order , I am slightly surprised that the reviews are not quite as glowing as I thought they would be - certainly not describing it as a "game changer" in the way that the GT3 was portrayed (I think this just shows how good the 991 GT3 is) It feels la little flat to me ; does anyone else think this ? Maybe once the proper road tests and comps. with the likes of the Speciale happen , then this will change ?
I also think the GT3 looks amazing in every single colour - this is a testament to really great design , whereas the RS just doesn't look quite as good to my eyes - maybe in the metal it will be different ?
Don't get me wrong , I know I'm really lucky to get an RS allocation and I am really looking forward to driving / owning the car - just not quite as much as I was when I ordered the 3 - it's really weird - I just can't quite work out why ??
Keep the faith if you don`t go weak at the knees when they pull of the cover then I`d be surprised. I saw the Lava Orange launch car at Geneva and its presence was amazing. Not that I would choose orange personally. What is good to remember is that the historic challenge of the 911 concept has been to try and get more grip at the front end of the car. That quest with the arrival of very last GT 997s (997.2 gt2rs/gt3rs) took a big step forward. Then came the 991 and all models gained yet more front end improvement. The job is almost done now and the aero and tyre technology on the 991 GT3 has just about been eliminated under steer and mediocre turn in speeds are just about gone. The 911 GT3RS puts the icing on the cake and we now after many years of having to have a more gentle approach to corner entry speed can attack in a way never possible before. What's more that massive increase in mechanical grip from the front end further enables us to control the rear so much easier with on and opposite lock in a way we never could before. Not all the journalists are going to wet their knickers in this car because the new problem is that you are going to have to drive it at racing speeds to enjoy a feeling of mastery and full involvement and that has now become extremely fast and relatively dangerous especially if you are not used to driving 911s. Would we all be better of driving old 911s at half the speed with restrictive under steer lurching into massive over steer exiting bends at half the speed but with a smile on our face. Maybe this is why the Porsche club is full of happy older 911 owners. The old ones were great but I think we will go with the technology for now. Remember the GT3RS will give its running gear to the 991.2 GT2RS so we need to get practising.
Edited by GR GT2RS on Saturday 23 May 07:47
GR GT2RS said:
What is good to remember is that the historic challenge of the 911 concept has been to try and get more grip at the front end of the car. That quest with the arrival of very last GT 997s (997.2 gt2rs/gt3rs) took a big step forward. Then came the 991 and all models gained yet more front end improvement. The job is almost done now and the aero and tyre technology on the 991 GT3 has just about been eliminated under steer and mediocre turn in speeds are just about gone. The 911 GT3RS puts the icing on the cake and we now after many years of having to have a more gentle approach to corner entry speed can attack in a way never possible before. What's more that massive increase in mechanical grip from the front end further enables us to control the rear so much easier with on and opposite lock in a way we never could before. Not all the journalists are going to wet their knickers in this car because the new problem is that you are going to have to drive it at racing speeds to enjoy a feeling of mastery and full involvement and that has now become extremely fast and relatively dangerous especially if you are not used to driving 911s. Would we all be better of driving old 911s at half the speed with restrictive under steer lurching into massive over steer exiting bends at half the speed but with a smile on our face.
"What is good to remember" ? Really ?I'm utterly mystified by all the above. I'm not aware of any factory diktat stating understeer needed to be banished from the 911's chassis. Doing so should remain the responsibility of the driver, not the some faceless marketing led focus group.
There now appears to be a groundswell of opinion that the 911 chassis in all it's previous iterations has been "blighted" with understeer. When will individuals like you and the strategists at Porsche realise that's a massive part of the car's appeal for many ?
Why oh why this fixation (nee obsession) with removing every last trace of 911 "ness" from what most consider to be one of the finest drivers cars/experiences ever produced ?
If I want a car with a faithful, reliable and some would say dull, front end, I'd buy any modern Ferrari, BMW M car, or anything front engined and well honed. Mercedes GT-S anyone ?
But when I read this : "The 911 GT3RS puts the icing on the cake and we now after many years of having to have a more gentle approach to corner entry speed can attack in a way never possible before. What's more that massive increase in mechanical grip from the front end further enables us to control the rear so much easier with on and opposite lock in a way we never could before."
I'm left wondering A :Do the above comments relate to road or track use ? and B : If it's the former. Why ? Go buy a Cup car and do something worthwhile with it, because on track I can fully understand the need for a front end that provides massive grip and minimal tyre wear, but on a road car ? Where's the joy in having a 911 with such an accomplished front end you can't hope to begin to explore it's limits on the road ? The process of driving a 911 quickly on give and take roads in a variety of conditions now appears to have been completely de-skilled at the behest of a few chasing ultimate lap times around a well known 14.7 mile ribbon of tarmac in The Fatherland.
It's becoming more evident that the engineers at Stuttgart are pandering to the whims of the few who want them to produce a slick consumer product that a monkey can drive quickly , whilst the majority appear to crave the tactility and engagement offered by the old/re cars.
What's clear is the rot has now well and truly set in. This can't (and won't) end well for the 911 chassis as we know it.
Keep the faith if you don`t go weak at the knees when they pull of the cover then I`d be surprised. I saw the Lava Orange launch car at Geneva and its presence was amazing. Not that I would choose orange personally. What is good to remember is that the historic challenge of the 911 concept has been to try and get more grip at the front end of the car. That quest with the arrival of very last GT 997s (997.2 gt2rs/gt3rs) took a big step forward. Then came the 991 and all models gained yet more front end improvement. The job is almost done now and the aero and tyre technology on the 991 GT3 has just about been eliminated under steer and mediocre turn in speeds are just about gone. The 911 GT3RS puts the icing on the cake and we now after many years of having to have a more gentle approach to corner entry speed can attack in a way never possible before. What's more that massive increase in mechanical grip from the front end further enables us to control the rear so much easier with on and opposite lock in a way we never could before. Not all the journalists are going to wet their knickers in this car because the new problem is that you are going to have to drive it at racing speeds to enjoy a feeling of mastery and full involvement and that has now become extremely fast and relatively dangerous especially if you are not used to driving 911s. Would we all be better of driving old 911s at half the speed with restrictive under steer lurching into massive over steer exiting bends at half the speed but with a smile on our face. Maybe this is why the Porsche club is full of happy older 911 owners. The old ones were great but I think we will go with the technology for now. Remember the GT3RS will give its running gear to the 991.2 GT2RS so we need to get practising.
The gt3 still understeers,if you must have technology to drive a gt3 quickly thats a shame.Its no longer a 911 but a huge and fairly ugly gt car,it hit home seeing one parked inbetween some other 911,s the other night,a massive car that looks like its designed for the oriental market.
Of course road cars understeer from the factory purposely to make safer for the average owner,first thing with a new car is run it in and get it set up accuratley,because the factory no longer care about this.And now you have tech doing the steering for you from the rear,i wonder how reliable this is going to be!
I wonder what cars you have owned that have restrictive understeer,and massive oversteer,or do they just simply need a good set up and tyres.
If you dont like the charachteristics of a 911'or like sharper turn in buy a mid engine car,which will get left behind out of the corner.
Can we have our 911 back please!
Keep the faith if you don`t go weak at the knees when they pull of the cover then I`d be surprised. I saw the Lava Orange launch car at Geneva and its presence was amazing. Not that I would choose orange personally. What is good to remember is that the historic challenge of the 911 concept has been to try and get more grip at the front end of the car. That quest with the arrival of very last GT 997s (997.2 gt2rs/gt3rs) took a big step forward. Then came the 991 and all models gained yet more front end improvement. The job is almost done now and the aero and tyre technology on the 991 GT3 has just about been eliminated under steer and mediocre turn in speeds are just about gone. The 911 GT3RS puts the icing on the cake and we now after many years of having to have a more gentle approach to corner entry speed can attack in a way never possible before. What's more that massive increase in mechanical grip from the front end further enables us to control the rear so much easier with on and opposite lock in a way we never could before. Not all the journalists are going to wet their knickers in this car because the new problem is that you are going to have to drive it at racing speeds to enjoy a feeling of mastery and full involvement and that has now become extremely fast and relatively dangerous especially if you are not used to driving 911s. Would we all be better of driving old 911s at half the speed with restrictive under steer lurching into massive over steer exiting bends at half the speed but with a smile on our face. Maybe this is why the Porsche club is full of happy older 911 owners. The old ones were great but I think we will go with the technology for now. Remember the GT3RS will give its running gear to the 991.2 GT2RS so we need to get practising.
The gt3 still understeers,if you must have technology to drive a gt3 quickly thats a shame.Its no longer a 911 but a huge and fairly ugly gt car,it hit home seeing one parked inbetween some other 911,s the other night,a massive car that looks like its designed for the oriental market.
Of course road cars understeer from the factory purposely to make safer for the average owner,first thing with a new car is run it in and get it set up accuratley,because the factory no longer care about this.And now you have tech doing the steering for you from the rear,i wonder how reliable this is going to be!
I wonder what cars you have owned that have restrictive understeer,and massive oversteer,or do they just simply need a good set up and tyres.
If you dont like the charachteristics of a 911'or like sharper turn in buy a mid engine car,which will get left behind out of the corner.
Can we have our 911 back please!
The survival rate of 911s is very impressive, and for those who do not like the new car there are adequate choices, even up to cars like the Singers.
Personally, I do not want to see a repeat of the old cars, ( my garage has cars up to 14 years old), but to try the new. I do expect some sort of manual car in the genre 2 era for those who want one, and that should satisfy the market. However, go out five years and we will be 100% turbo,100% PDK across the range in my view. The costs of continually developing a manual for en ever-shrinking market and a limited run of cars seem to me to be unattractive.
I am quite excited by the new car, but it is usually the case that at this stage there are very varying opinions. Evidently it will not please everyone, technically, aesthetically, or as a driving experience. If it is a disappointment in real life, I will sell it.
Personally, I do not want to see a repeat of the old cars, ( my garage has cars up to 14 years old), but to try the new. I do expect some sort of manual car in the genre 2 era for those who want one, and that should satisfy the market. However, go out five years and we will be 100% turbo,100% PDK across the range in my view. The costs of continually developing a manual for en ever-shrinking market and a limited run of cars seem to me to be unattractive.
I am quite excited by the new car, but it is usually the case that at this stage there are very varying opinions. Evidently it will not please everyone, technically, aesthetically, or as a driving experience. If it is a disappointment in real life, I will sell it.
IMIA said:
Looks fun and incredibly easy to drive IMO
What is it about that video that makes you say that?If it was a random member of the public who had just been given the keys and they were able to effortlessly drift the car around every corner then I'd be inclined to agree. However, we all know that Harris is a fairly handy driver, and this is an edited video, so the fact that he is making the car look easy to drift doesn't really provide much useful information.
The various reports do suggest that the car is reasonably usable on a day-to-day basis, but I suggest that is not quite what you meant?
sidicks said:
IMIA said:
Looks fun and incredibly easy to drive IMO
What is it about that video that makes you say that?If it was a random member of the public who had just been given the keys and they were able to effortlessly drift the car around every corner then I'd be inclined to agree. However, we all know that Harris is a fairly handy driver, and this is an edited video, so the fact that he is making the car look easy to drift doesn't really provide much useful information.
The various reports do suggest that the car is reasonably usable on a day-to-day basis, but I suggest that is not quite what you meant?
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