Driving IMIA's extraordinary air-cooled 911s
Discussion
GreatGranny said:
OP - Loads of 3.4 C2s for sale :-)
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C108646
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C623136
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C540591
I love that ocean jade! Lovely colourhttp://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C108646
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C623136
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C540591
IMI A said:
What aftermarket goodies would you recommend that do not ruin the magic carpet ride in a 964 C2? I actually quite like the fact that on our roads my 964 is beautifully comfortable. Maybe I'm getting old! Its funny you rarely see a good 964 C2 for sale whilst there have always been numerous RS for sale over the last 10 years. I bought my 964 before it even came on the market and had missed it twice before because I was pontificating about whether Hairpin were asking too much for her. Same story with my black 3.2C which has also been through Hairpin Co's hands a few times.
If the dampers on your car are as clean as the rest of the car I would simply have the car lowered, corner weighted and geo reset using the original shocks. It wouldn't spoil the ride and it would improve the dynamics. ras62 said:
IMI A said:
What aftermarket goodies would you recommend that do not ruin the magic carpet ride in a 964 C2? I actually quite like the fact that on our roads my 964 is beautifully comfortable. Maybe I'm getting old! Its funny you rarely see a good 964 C2 for sale whilst there have always been numerous RS for sale over the last 10 years. I bought my 964 before it even came on the market and had missed it twice before because I was pontificating about whether Hairpin were asking too much for her. Same story with my black 3.2C which has also been through Hairpin Co's hands a few times.
If the dampers on your car are as clean as the rest of the car I would simply have the car lowered, corner weighted and geo reset using the original shocks. It wouldn't spoil the ride and it would improve the dynamics. That's handy IMIA. Some are good and some are just cheap and nasty...I think you can use your present springs/dampers and lower the ride height enough to make a difference. Good after market dampers although a little stiffer offer really nicely damped ride and make a significant improvement to the way the cars drive.
I spent some quality! time at the wheel of my mates 3.4 996 yesterday. What a fantastic car. The design has really grown on me these last few years, simple yet elegant while retaining the tradition small 911 footprint. He's added an exhaust bypass to add a little aural drama and it now sounds perfect. Driving at a good pace on some pretty appalling roads, the 911 feedback is there in abundance but filtered end transmitted in a more sophisticated way than the aircooled cars. Same language, different volume. Easy accessible power, great throttle response, light weigh, great brakes...its all there. Hard to believe it has worn its miles so well both visually and mechanically. A bargain doesn't begin to describe it imo.
I spent some quality! time at the wheel of my mates 3.4 996 yesterday. What a fantastic car. The design has really grown on me these last few years, simple yet elegant while retaining the tradition small 911 footprint. He's added an exhaust bypass to add a little aural drama and it now sounds perfect. Driving at a good pace on some pretty appalling roads, the 911 feedback is there in abundance but filtered end transmitted in a more sophisticated way than the aircooled cars. Same language, different volume. Easy accessible power, great throttle response, light weigh, great brakes...its all there. Hard to believe it has worn its miles so well both visually and mechanically. A bargain doesn't begin to describe it imo.
Some interesting views on the Carrera 3.2, 964 and 986 which largely concur with my own experiences. I have a G50 Carrera 3.2, a 2002 986S and occasionally drive my wife's 964C4 so feel I'm qualified to comment!
I've driven over 100k miles in my 986S. It is a lovely balanced drive, but not that challenging to drive quickly. I had the M030 sports suspension fitted a few years a go, which makes it even more competent. However, I find it flatters my driving and it now needs to be driven very quickly on the road for me to get a buzz from my driving. So a couple of years a go I got myself a Carrera 3.2, luckily just before the prices really started to increase. I wanted something more challenging to drive, something more tactile and enjoyable at sane speeds on the road. It is certainly very different to the 986. Like most 911s the set up of the suspension makes a big difference to the way it drives. After replacing a few worn bushes etc. and a suspension set up by Center Gravity the car is so much better to drive. The initially heavy steering is lighter and the ride so much better than the 986S. There is so much more steering feel too. The key to enjoying these old 911s is to remember to use the throttle to help steer the car; when you get it right you know straight away as it feels effortless. Driving the Carrera is more of an event compared to the 986S and other motorists and pedestrians seem to appreciate it too, which isn't usually the case with the 986S.
Our 964C4 falls in between the 3.2 and 986S in terms of the way it drives as well as chronologically even though it's only a year younger than the 3.2. The steering is much lighter, possibly lighter than the 986 and it feels more "darty", but this is probably due to the set up (it's nearly as low as a 944RS). Its ride is less forgiving than the 3.2, it feels like it is trying to pummel the road in to submission compared to the 3.2 which flows with the road. This may be partly due to the C4's extra weight compared to the others. It makes a lovely sound when heard from outside the car, but frustratingly the sound insulation makes it nearly inaudible from inside. It gets a similar amount of admiringly looks and comments as the 3.2.
Having said all the above my 986 makes a good all year round car with its heated seats, litronic lights, PSM, better corrosion protection and winter tyres. I'm pleased to hear that many people are now realising how good it is and that for some (me included)it's a better drive than the 987 and 981.
I've driven over 100k miles in my 986S. It is a lovely balanced drive, but not that challenging to drive quickly. I had the M030 sports suspension fitted a few years a go, which makes it even more competent. However, I find it flatters my driving and it now needs to be driven very quickly on the road for me to get a buzz from my driving. So a couple of years a go I got myself a Carrera 3.2, luckily just before the prices really started to increase. I wanted something more challenging to drive, something more tactile and enjoyable at sane speeds on the road. It is certainly very different to the 986. Like most 911s the set up of the suspension makes a big difference to the way it drives. After replacing a few worn bushes etc. and a suspension set up by Center Gravity the car is so much better to drive. The initially heavy steering is lighter and the ride so much better than the 986S. There is so much more steering feel too. The key to enjoying these old 911s is to remember to use the throttle to help steer the car; when you get it right you know straight away as it feels effortless. Driving the Carrera is more of an event compared to the 986S and other motorists and pedestrians seem to appreciate it too, which isn't usually the case with the 986S.
Our 964C4 falls in between the 3.2 and 986S in terms of the way it drives as well as chronologically even though it's only a year younger than the 3.2. The steering is much lighter, possibly lighter than the 986 and it feels more "darty", but this is probably due to the set up (it's nearly as low as a 944RS). Its ride is less forgiving than the 3.2, it feels like it is trying to pummel the road in to submission compared to the 3.2 which flows with the road. This may be partly due to the C4's extra weight compared to the others. It makes a lovely sound when heard from outside the car, but frustratingly the sound insulation makes it nearly inaudible from inside. It gets a similar amount of admiringly looks and comments as the 3.2.
Having said all the above my 986 makes a good all year round car with its heated seats, litronic lights, PSM, better corrosion protection and winter tyres. I'm pleased to hear that many people are now realising how good it is and that for some (me included)it's a better drive than the 987 and 981.
Yes my old car. Decision made by SWMBO as she wants her garage back. She may let the other red 964 C2 go too. If anyone perhaps interested in one of the best preserved manual 964 C2 with very low miles free to PM me or even better liaise with Tom at 911V. The 964 C2 is unusual in that all of its 5 owners have all had the car serviced by the supplying dealer Dick Lovett for last thirty years and 30,000 miles from new.
The black G50 3.2 is a sport coupe with rear spolier removed. Unrestored, Original panel, low miles and no rust is a rare combo and she's quick even by modern standards. Not comparable to the restored shiney cars 99% for sale at the mo. Even the wheels are with the original anodised finish. Sad and shall miss her.
The black G50 3.2 is a sport coupe with rear spolier removed. Unrestored, Original panel, low miles and no rust is a rare combo and she's quick even by modern standards. Not comparable to the restored shiney cars 99% for sale at the mo. Even the wheels are with the original anodised finish. Sad and shall miss her.
So sad to hear. I thought you were selling to free up space to buy another toy. I was excited at the thought of what it might be. But nice cars like that really need to be in a garage to preserve their glory.
Good luck with the sale my friend, just a shame I have run out of garage space myself.
Good luck with the sale my friend, just a shame I have run out of garage space myself.
IMI A said:
Yes my old car. Decision made by SWMBO as she wants her garage back. She may let the other red 964 C2 go too. If anyone perhaps interested in one of the best preserved manual 964 C2 with very low miles free to PM me or even better liaise with Tom at 911V. The 964 C2 is unusual in that all of its 5 owners have all had the car serviced by the supplying dealer Dick Lovett for last thirty years and 30,000 miles from new.
The black G50 3.2 is a sport coupe with rear spolier removed. Unrestored, Original panel, low miles and no rust is a rare combo and she's quick even by modern standards. Not comparable to the restored shiney cars 99% for sale at the mo. Even the wheels are with the original anodised finish. Sad and shall miss her.
Not the 964 C2 as well. Sad day. Will that just leave you with your "breathed on 997.1 turbo"?The black G50 3.2 is a sport coupe with rear spolier removed. Unrestored, Original panel, low miles and no rust is a rare combo and she's quick even by modern standards. Not comparable to the restored shiney cars 99% for sale at the mo. Even the wheels are with the original anodised finish. Sad and shall miss her.
Will you replace both with another toy?
At least you should get a good return and who know's what lies instore for the market later this year!
g7jhp said:
IMI A said:
Yes my old car. Decision made by SWMBO as she wants her garage back. She may let the other red 964 C2 go too. If anyone perhaps interested in one of the best preserved manual 964 C2 with very low miles free to PM me or even better liaise with Tom at 911V. The 964 C2 is unusual in that all of its 5 owners have all had the car serviced by the supplying dealer Dick Lovett for last thirty years and 30,000 miles from new.
The black G50 3.2 is a sport coupe with rear spolier removed. Unrestored, Original panel, low miles and no rust is a rare combo and she's quick even by modern standards. Not comparable to the restored shiney cars 99% for sale at the mo. Even the wheels are with the original anodised finish. Sad and shall miss her.
Not the 964 C2 as well. Sad day. Will that just leave you with your "breathed on 997.1 turbo"?The black G50 3.2 is a sport coupe with rear spolier removed. Unrestored, Original panel, low miles and no rust is a rare combo and she's quick even by modern standards. Not comparable to the restored shiney cars 99% for sale at the mo. Even the wheels are with the original anodised finish. Sad and shall miss her.
Will you replace both with another toy?
At least you should get a good return and who know's what lies instore for the market later this year!
As far as the market goes I wish I had trusted my own judgement and hadn't listened to all the naysayers back in 2007/8 which sort of clouded my judgement - I'm not talking about the guys on here doom mongering but my own close friends at the time who own RS models were all bailing out on the basis prices couldn't go any further north. 993 RS £50k. 72 RS £150k, 964 RS were still cheap too. They're not making them anymore and across pre impact bumper, impact bumper, 964 and 993 roughly the same amount of cars made. Newer air cooled should therefor all follow the same pattern in terms of capital appreciation IMO. So currently a good 2.4s trades for circa £250k. Give it 10-15 years and G series and 964 C2 will follow suit IMO. But you should only buy them to drive them not as investments as prices go up and down. I think "good" cars which in reality are few and far between should just keep on steadily rising IMO. Many of the restored cars with paint hiding rust are future money pits as its very difficult to repair properly with stripping the whole car and even then mistakes are made if the shell isn't then treated and rust proofed properly. Better to buy a car thats never rusted!
Lovely car. Missed it when it was for sale a few years ago as I was oooing and ahhing over paying mid twenties for it (what an idiot). It has had a top end rebuild too from memory - done quite early on for valve issues (not unknown in this era).
Edited by drmark on Sunday 8th January 13:00
drmark said:
Lovely car. Missed it when it was for sale a few years ago as I was oooing and ahhing over paying mid twenties for it (what an idiot). It has had a top end rebuild too from memory - done quite early on for valve issues (not unknown in this era).
Thanks Mark. Missed both this 964 C2 and this G50 3.2 Carrera when they were for sale for even less than that a few time around 2006 / 2007Edited by drmark on Sunday 8th January 13:00
You still need shooting for selling that 2.2S
200Plus Club said:
Tis a beauty! Shame it's going!
Hi Chris. Yes sad but better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. On a brighter note Ken mentioned he's just finished a few monster builds and will be testing them soon probably at somewhere like Brunters. Email me if you'd like to come. I'm defo going!!!!Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff