Why do we upgrade?
Discussion
I work in IT and the underlying premise that is prevalent throughout my industry is that the user should always upgrade to the latest software with the latest patches installed otherwise you could encounter issues or expose your system to attacks.
As a general rule this upgrade mantra is followed religiously by almost everyone as nobody wants to suffer the consequences of a broken system or suffer the inconvenience of being hacked and having information stolen from them.
In this case its very easy to see why an end user will upgrade their software or system as being on the ‘old’ software carries with it a risk that the end user is not willing to accept.
In years gone by it was easy to see how people adopted this mentality with cars. For example, why would you want to continue threshold braking once ABS had been proven on aircraft and made available on cars? Unless you have the skills of the late great Sean Edwards then you will most probably be better off (and no doubt safer) with ABS than without it. In this case the majority of people were willing to give up the risk of a NON-ABS braking system for the benefit of increased safety.
The same happened to a more invasive extent with Electronic Stability Control systems. When these came out the general public saw the overwhelming benefits of these systems and were amazed at how the ‘computers took control’ and helped bring the car to a safe and controlled state where the driver could take back control. At the same time, enthusiast drivers made switching the traction control button to ‘Off’ part of their morning ritual.
All of these ‘upgrades’ came in dribs and drabs over time and came alongside features like sound insulation and bluetooth integration and automatic headlight control systems along with auto dimming rear view mirrors and rain sensing wipers etc etc etc.
Some of these features don’t affect the core driving experience at all (bluetooth telephone, ISOFIX seat mountings etc) and some do (integrated electronic stability control systems that take inputs from steering, and throttle openings etc and constantly adjust the car).
Gradually we have been led to believe that these systems enhance the driving experience and make driving the car much more pleasurable. This is a debatable claim as its a purely subjective viewpoint depending on what you use the car for.
If you had a 991 Turbo S in the garage and a 997 GT3 RS parked alongside it, which keys would you grab if you was going on a trip from Southern England to the Nurburgring for 10 laps and then into Italy and Switzerland for a week long holiday with your other half? Would that decision be different if rain or snow was expected for part of the journey? What if you had to choose one of them forever? What would you be willing to compromise on?
Personally I think my 997 GT3 is a great compromise between the old and the new. Between the raw unfiltered interaction and involvement of an old car and all the creature comforts of a new car. However, I am no driving god and I mostly drive with the traction control left on and the chassis set to benign understeer at the limit. I admit that I need electronic assistance to help curb my ‘over enthusiasm’ sometimes but I also like to occasionally switch the system off and let it all hang out. The enjoyment for me lies in the fact that the car is considerably more capable than I am but it rewards and punishes enough to keep me interested and make me want to improve as a driver. On the flip side of that, It does not have bluetooth integration so I have to stop the car to make phone calls and I can’t play my music or stream internet radio when I am stuck in traffic! Are these really important though?
I have thought about ‘upgrading’ to a 991 GT3 many times (and probably will one day) but I have always been left with the same question… What do I want from my next car and what am I willing to give up for it? Conversely, what does my car NOT do that a Cayman GT4 or a 991 GTS CAN do? Is it always about handling and speed that drives our decisions to change cars?
The ‘natural’ upgrade would be to go for the newer faster model but newer and faster does not appeal to everyone so my question to you guys is this, what made you change from your last car and why?
Have you just sold a 930 Turbo and ‘upgraded’ to a 991 Turbo?
Did you have a 997 and sell it for a 964?
Have you just swapped from a 991 GT3 to a ’73 RS Replica?
I would be really interested in your views as sometimes the upgrade path is not as clear as the manufacturers marketing department would have us believe.
As a general rule this upgrade mantra is followed religiously by almost everyone as nobody wants to suffer the consequences of a broken system or suffer the inconvenience of being hacked and having information stolen from them.
In this case its very easy to see why an end user will upgrade their software or system as being on the ‘old’ software carries with it a risk that the end user is not willing to accept.
In years gone by it was easy to see how people adopted this mentality with cars. For example, why would you want to continue threshold braking once ABS had been proven on aircraft and made available on cars? Unless you have the skills of the late great Sean Edwards then you will most probably be better off (and no doubt safer) with ABS than without it. In this case the majority of people were willing to give up the risk of a NON-ABS braking system for the benefit of increased safety.
The same happened to a more invasive extent with Electronic Stability Control systems. When these came out the general public saw the overwhelming benefits of these systems and were amazed at how the ‘computers took control’ and helped bring the car to a safe and controlled state where the driver could take back control. At the same time, enthusiast drivers made switching the traction control button to ‘Off’ part of their morning ritual.
All of these ‘upgrades’ came in dribs and drabs over time and came alongside features like sound insulation and bluetooth integration and automatic headlight control systems along with auto dimming rear view mirrors and rain sensing wipers etc etc etc.
Some of these features don’t affect the core driving experience at all (bluetooth telephone, ISOFIX seat mountings etc) and some do (integrated electronic stability control systems that take inputs from steering, and throttle openings etc and constantly adjust the car).
Gradually we have been led to believe that these systems enhance the driving experience and make driving the car much more pleasurable. This is a debatable claim as its a purely subjective viewpoint depending on what you use the car for.
If you had a 991 Turbo S in the garage and a 997 GT3 RS parked alongside it, which keys would you grab if you was going on a trip from Southern England to the Nurburgring for 10 laps and then into Italy and Switzerland for a week long holiday with your other half? Would that decision be different if rain or snow was expected for part of the journey? What if you had to choose one of them forever? What would you be willing to compromise on?
Personally I think my 997 GT3 is a great compromise between the old and the new. Between the raw unfiltered interaction and involvement of an old car and all the creature comforts of a new car. However, I am no driving god and I mostly drive with the traction control left on and the chassis set to benign understeer at the limit. I admit that I need electronic assistance to help curb my ‘over enthusiasm’ sometimes but I also like to occasionally switch the system off and let it all hang out. The enjoyment for me lies in the fact that the car is considerably more capable than I am but it rewards and punishes enough to keep me interested and make me want to improve as a driver. On the flip side of that, It does not have bluetooth integration so I have to stop the car to make phone calls and I can’t play my music or stream internet radio when I am stuck in traffic! Are these really important though?
I have thought about ‘upgrading’ to a 991 GT3 many times (and probably will one day) but I have always been left with the same question… What do I want from my next car and what am I willing to give up for it? Conversely, what does my car NOT do that a Cayman GT4 or a 991 GTS CAN do? Is it always about handling and speed that drives our decisions to change cars?
The ‘natural’ upgrade would be to go for the newer faster model but newer and faster does not appeal to everyone so my question to you guys is this, what made you change from your last car and why?
Have you just sold a 930 Turbo and ‘upgraded’ to a 991 Turbo?
Did you have a 997 and sell it for a 964?
Have you just swapped from a 991 GT3 to a ’73 RS Replica?
I would be really interested in your views as sometimes the upgrade path is not as clear as the manufacturers marketing department would have us believe.
I run my own I.T company, and all my clients are on Windows 7 a solid platform and most are on Office 2010.
Car wise OEM is too safe, geo's are crap, maps are for co2, so a few mods releases a great car imo.
My car feels alive over OEM, it sounds better has 30lb/ft more mid range and turns in like a knife though butter.
I waited 2 years for the new 981 Cayman, drove it and did not like the feel at all.
So imo you go for feel(while having as new as possable, I hate car work and old stuff) or all out performance like a Macca 0-125mph in 8.5 seconds.
It's got to work on a B road though ;-) , and for speed , you get used to it after a while and long for more feel.
But I do feel like buying a fast car atm, I miss it after a long time with out one.
Car wise OEM is too safe, geo's are crap, maps are for co2, so a few mods releases a great car imo.
My car feels alive over OEM, it sounds better has 30lb/ft more mid range and turns in like a knife though butter.
I waited 2 years for the new 981 Cayman, drove it and did not like the feel at all.
So imo you go for feel(while having as new as possable, I hate car work and old stuff) or all out performance like a Macca 0-125mph in 8.5 seconds.
It's got to work on a B road though ;-) , and for speed , you get used to it after a while and long for more feel.
But I do feel like buying a fast car atm, I miss it after a long time with out one.
Edited by PorscheGT4 on Tuesday 7th July 22:41
PorscheGT4 said:
I run my IT company, and all my clients are on Windows 7 a solid platform and most are on Office 2010.
Car wise OEM is too safe, geo's are crap, maps are for co2, so a few mods releases a great car imo.
My car feels alive over OEM, it sounds better has 30lb/ft more mid rage and turns in like a knife though butter.
Did you even read his post Dave?Car wise OEM is too safe, geo's are crap, maps are for co2, so a few mods releases a great car imo.
My car feels alive over OEM, it sounds better has 30lb/ft more mid rage and turns in like a knife though butter.
Upgrade, whether to the next model series up, more valuable one in range, or newer version of the same 'model' normally means, newer tech, more features, increased comfort, better fuel efficiency and faster like for like. Manufacturers have to do this to tempt you to spend money. They don't make money by telling you older second hand cars are better and that as they are cheaper you can throw them around with more abandon. Ultimately, those things above don't really mean much when it really boils down to it, even less so for one who uses their Porsche as a second or third car. However, Porsche is sold as the everyday supercar and many people do use them daily so the everything car needs to improve in the areas that really matter to new buyers who use them like this.
This is a topic I love. Upgrade? What does this mean? What do you want to upgrade?
I would love to 'upgrade' my 993 to a 70's 911 2.2S.
99% of people assume newerer is betterer and by most measures, most products are. But, better in what way?
Its all pure marketing bull s
t. And we cant help but fall for it. Yes, me too.
Be true to yourself and think purely. What is it that makes you happy? Once you have worked that out, you can shun the marketing and status traps.
Do you really think you have made it in your BMW 320D with big alloys? Or are you actually trapped inside the marketing box?
The first job is to ditch vanity. Its pointless. Find out what YOU want!
And if it really is a 320D, then thats OK!
I would love to 'upgrade' my 993 to a 70's 911 2.2S.
99% of people assume newerer is betterer and by most measures, most products are. But, better in what way?
Its all pure marketing bull s
t. And we cant help but fall for it. Yes, me too.Be true to yourself and think purely. What is it that makes you happy? Once you have worked that out, you can shun the marketing and status traps.
Do you really think you have made it in your BMW 320D with big alloys? Or are you actually trapped inside the marketing box?
The first job is to ditch vanity. Its pointless. Find out what YOU want!
And if it really is a 320D, then thats OK!
I started my Porsche journey in a 993 whose shape I had always lusted after, but which eventually betrayed its 'classic' handling traits when compared with more modern handling Porsche like the 997 Carrera, and then 2 generations of GT3 in my case. So I'd say handling would be a key reason for me! That, and avoiding the beastly engine woes that Porsche has sadly allowed through the net since water cooling.
In many cases of course it isn't always about 'upgrading' at all. People change their cars for all sorts of reasons depending on what stage they are in life, but if we're talking about a deliberate choice we make as car enthusiasts in order to take advantage of the new features and improvements new cars have to offer, there is a trade-off as you rightly suggest - the improvements these days seem to be coming at the cost of ultimate driver involvement, because manufacturers like Porsche want to sell more cars, and they have to be able to be driven by everyday folk day in day out, not just on Sunday.
But I defy anyone to say (for example) that the 991 GT3 isn't an absolutely gorgeous vehicle to oggle at, with an ability to punch far above its weight in terms of performance, and still sufficiently involving at road-speeds - albeit perhaps less so than previous models. Objectively in every way it is a better car than that which went before. Subjectively though, it's down to you!
PS - I used to work in IT marketing! :-@
In many cases of course it isn't always about 'upgrading' at all. People change their cars for all sorts of reasons depending on what stage they are in life, but if we're talking about a deliberate choice we make as car enthusiasts in order to take advantage of the new features and improvements new cars have to offer, there is a trade-off as you rightly suggest - the improvements these days seem to be coming at the cost of ultimate driver involvement, because manufacturers like Porsche want to sell more cars, and they have to be able to be driven by everyday folk day in day out, not just on Sunday.
But I defy anyone to say (for example) that the 991 GT3 isn't an absolutely gorgeous vehicle to oggle at, with an ability to punch far above its weight in terms of performance, and still sufficiently involving at road-speeds - albeit perhaps less so than previous models. Objectively in every way it is a better car than that which went before. Subjectively though, it's down to you!
PS - I used to work in IT marketing! :-@
Edited by Fl0pp3r on Wednesday 8th July 01:04
Really interesting question. I look for a driving experience that challenges but also rewards through interaction and feel so from that subjective perspective, for me my 997 GT3 clubsport is a downgrade from a 996 RS and despite of it's huge speed advantage, a 991GT3 would be a downgrade from a cooking 964 C2. Before the days of electronic safety systems, cars relied on Chassis feel and feedback to help the driver make his control decisions. That is no longer necessary as control systems filter away much of that experience. For me this is a big backward step.
I think that if you are in the fortunate position to already own a daily driver, when you stand back and isolate what it is that you actually want from your 'special car/s', for the reasons that the OP already touched on - for some of us, newer is not always an 'upgrade' . If course, this is subjective and depends entirely on what a driver actually wants from his/her special car. I wonder how many actually know. I find Threads like this are very thought provoking
I think that if you are in the fortunate position to already own a daily driver, when you stand back and isolate what it is that you actually want from your 'special car/s', for the reasons that the OP already touched on - for some of us, newer is not always an 'upgrade' . If course, this is subjective and depends entirely on what a driver actually wants from his/her special car. I wonder how many actually know. I find Threads like this are very thought provoking
Edited by Steve Rance on Wednesday 8th July 06:56
I agree. The term 'upgrade' is too subjective.
I've 'upgraded', in my view anyhow, from a 991GT3 to a 1972 ST as it suits the smaller B roads and hairpins better. If I lived near Spa however, it would have been a different story.
That, and the fact it makes this noise
http://youtu.be/a0x6cHwMql4
I've 'upgraded', in my view anyhow, from a 991GT3 to a 1972 ST as it suits the smaller B roads and hairpins better. If I lived near Spa however, it would have been a different story.
That, and the fact it makes this noise
http://youtu.be/a0x6cHwMql4
A standard response would be:
Upgrading = moving to the latest release of the same model or better
So a 996 Carrera to a 997 Carrera to a 991 Carrera
Not a 930 to a 964 Tip Targa for example
If I moved from my 997 C2S to a 991 C2S, then I've upgraded. If I moved to a new M3 or C63 (both worth more), then I don't think I've upgraded...
Anyway, buy what you like, we're all different :-).
If every 911 was a Singer, we'd love it for a few weeks until somebody remembered what a 997 GT3 or 993 C2S looked like :-).
Upgrading = moving to the latest release of the same model or better
So a 996 Carrera to a 997 Carrera to a 991 Carrera
Not a 930 to a 964 Tip Targa for example
If I moved from my 997 C2S to a 991 C2S, then I've upgraded. If I moved to a new M3 or C63 (both worth more), then I don't think I've upgraded...
Anyway, buy what you like, we're all different :-).
If every 911 was a Singer, we'd love it for a few weeks until somebody remembered what a 997 GT3 or 993 C2S looked like :-).
fastgerman said:
A standard response would be:
Upgrading = moving to the latest release of the same model or better
So a 996 Carrera to a 997 Carrera to a 991 Carrera
Not a 930 to a 964 Tip Targa for example
If I moved from my 997 C2S to a 991 C2S, then I've upgraded. If I moved to a new M3 or C63 (both worth more), then I don't think I've upgraded...
Anyway, buy what you like, we're all different :-).
If every 911 was a Singer, we'd love it for a few weeks until somebody remembered what a 997 GT3 or 993 C2S looked like :-).
I know this is the 'standard' upgrade path that people follow but my question was more aimed at the individual and their own choices for changing.Upgrading = moving to the latest release of the same model or better
So a 996 Carrera to a 997 Carrera to a 991 Carrera
Not a 930 to a 964 Tip Targa for example
If I moved from my 997 C2S to a 991 C2S, then I've upgraded. If I moved to a new M3 or C63 (both worth more), then I don't think I've upgraded...
Anyway, buy what you like, we're all different :-).
If every 911 was a Singer, we'd love it for a few weeks until somebody remembered what a 997 GT3 or 993 C2S looked like :-).
You say that a 930 to a 964 Tip Targa is not an upgrade but that is purely subjective and the reasons could be many, including budget constraints. Maybe the 964 is 4WD so they will use it more often and the auto box appeals because their left knee is damaged.
Who are we to say what is an upgrade and what isn't?
PorscheGT4 said:
you have to be serious what an upgrade is though, not just talk bks because it makes a thread.
if some people want to down grade to a slower car because it's more fun, that's a down grade though choice, please don't call it a upgrade for the thread.
So, as you sold your 996 GT3 and bought a Cayman R are you saying that's a downgrade? ks because it makes a thread.if some people want to down grade to a slower car because it's more fun, that's a down grade though choice, please don't call it a upgrade for the thread.
I always thought you argued it was an upgrade!
The question is not as simple as you!
PorscheGT4 said:
you have to be serious what an upgrade is though, not just talk bks because it makes a thread.
if some people want to down grade to a slower car because it's more fun, that's a down grade though choice, please don't call it a upgrade for the thread.
So would you say that speed is the criteria for an upgrade? ie; faster = upgrade, slower = downgrade.ks because it makes a thread.if some people want to down grade to a slower car because it's more fun, that's a down grade though choice, please don't call it a upgrade for the thread.
Not a trick question.
PorscheGT4 said:
you have to be serious what an upgrade is though, not just talk bks because it makes a thread.
if some people want to down grade to a slower car because it's more fun, that's a down grade though choice, please don't call it a upgrade for the thread.
A downgrade in pace but quite possibly an upgrade in engagement/fun, or usability? Or gear ratios? Or proneness to understeer?ks because it makes a thread.if some people want to down grade to a slower car because it's more fun, that's a down grade though choice, please don't call it a upgrade for the thread.
Steve Rance said:
So would you say that speed is the criteria for an upgrade? ie; faster = upgrade, slower = downgrade.
Not a trick question.
an upgrade in broad teams is something to make some thing betterNot a trick question.
cattle class to business class
rotary to Omega
Matalan to Loake
2.7 Cayman to 3.4 Cayman
2 star hotel to 5 Star
I don't see any one saying I want to make my car slower, 99% threads state I want my car to go faster.
I upgraded my N spec tyres to PSS as an example.
V8KSN said:
So, as you sold your 996 GT3 and bought a Cayman R are you saying that's a downgrade?
I always thought you argued it was an upgrade!
The question is not as simple as you!
was an upgrade in age, cost and how it handles B roads :-)I always thought you argued it was an upgrade!
The question is not as simple as you!
But it's neither an upgrade or a down grade imo it's different.
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